Vista feature

[misanthropy]

What happened to the feature in Vista that allows you to shut down most of the OS when you're gaming?

 

[MrChad]

link?

 

[Seeruk]

Have never played with such a feature in all the alphas, betas whatever as I didnt think it was something you had to enable as such?? I presumed it just kicked it when your box entered a DX environment. In fact I also presumed it would only be for DX10 games..... but then I tend to presume a lot of things

 

[misanthropy]

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Vistas+gaming+mode&btnG=Google+Search Maybe it will show up when it is officially released?

 

[Lepard]

I was just about to post about this.

I dont know where I heard it from, either. However, it would be a very nice feature to have.

 

[InlineFive]

Sounds pretty interesting, it will certaintly help gamers running 1GB of RAM.

 

[flexy]

OMG..i have THE brilliant idea right now.....i STFU otherwise someone might steal my idea. Might do some coding/scripting.

 

[aka1nas]

From the google link it doesn't look like MS ever said there would be such a feature. If it isn't in at this point, it's probably not going to be in for RTM.

 

[drag]

I know exactly what he is talking about. At least I beleive so.

It has to do with the compositing features and such.

As know Vista (and Linux before that.. and OS X before that) use compositing features combined with 3d acceleration to make a smooth display with fancy features in it's Areo interface.

How compositing works is instead of rendering the windows on screen in one go you render the windows in a off-screen buffer then use the image from that rendering and the other windows then put them together as just retangular images on the screen that is presented to the user.

By doing this you can then utilize the windows in a 3d environment (or 3d just always looking at it from one angle to produce a 2d desktop) and do fancy things like fast drop shadows, wobbly windows, fast alpha transparencies and the such.

Think about it like the OS is taking a picture of your window then using that picture it turns it into a DirectX texture and just sticks it on a rectangle in a flat 3d environment. This is essentially what happens. Needless to say this utilizing the GPU can make doing fancy effects very fast.

With no compositing you have to render windows every time you move them or overlap them or whatnot. This shows up as visual artifacts called 'tearing' and blank windows as the machines can't keep up with you moving the windows around fast. Try it sometimes. (if you have a very fast machine it can be difficult to notice it)

This happens in both Linux (unless your using compositing, which is currently disabled by default) and Windows, but not in OS X.

So it gives it a smoother, quicker, apperance and nicer feel.

Now however by rendering things off-screen in Vista you loose the 2d acceleration features, the GDI, that Windows uses to accelerate 2d rendering. However this is not usually a issue because the machines that are going to run the full Areo interface are going to be fast enough that the extra overhead won't bother users and the off-screen rendering means that the windows don't have to be rendered at nearly the same amount of times.

HOWEVER this means that things like OpenGL rendering won't work that well with compositing running. This also will add overhead to the video card's GPU and use up the video card's onboard memory.

So when your playing games this can have a negative impact on performance.

So I beleive the "gaming mode" is when your running 3d applications full screen then the Areo compositing features are automaticly disabled and thus you get full performance.

 

[ViRGE]

3D applications don't turn off Aero Glass by default. OpenGL stuff does when the ICD calls for it, but Direct3D stuff doesn't.

 

[Rilex]

OpenGL ICDs will no longer disable Aero Glass.

 

[flexy]

the point is you CAN "shut down" most of the features....also in XP already. There are a LOT of services running which make sense in normal day work....but you for sure dont need them for gaming...and when memory is tight.

I just wrote a script (for XP, testing)....shutting down and disabling a lot of processes which i otherwise have running.

Then i use a tool called "custom startup" which supports profiles and load a "mini" profile i made which excludes stuff from startup, like my NOD32 viruschecker, diskeeper, motherboard monitor.

With this script and the tool i can save AT LEAST 100MB...and today i will try more and see what more services i can disable.

The "sad" thing is that this all is possible already manually, eg. in administrative tools and with mscondig....but it is a LOT of clicking around and not comfortable at all ...it would be SO MUCH easier if there would be a feature for the startup-programs AND services to support profiles eg. msconfig.....eg. then you just click on a profile, reboot, and your system is ready for serious gaming

Therefore the script which basically only saves work and then the work to re-enable the services and set them to the rith config, eg. "manual,auto" etc. Still experimenting.

Edit: OUPS....its possible to do that wth creating different hardware profiles (device manager) and then in administrative tools under "log on" assigning a service to a certain profile. Playing around right now.

 

[Rilex]

Of course, if you understood the VMM, you'd realize that what you're doing, even in script, is an absolute waste of time.

That never stopped the "tweakers" (aka know enough to be dangerous), though.

 

[Nothinman]

The "sad" thing is that this all is possible already manually, eg. in administrative tools and with mscondig....but it is a LOT of clicking around and not comfortable at all ...it would be SO MUCH easier if there would be a feature for the startup-programs AND services to support profiles eg. msconfig.....eg. then you just click on a profile, reboot, and your system is ready for serious gaming

No the real sad thing is that you've spend this much time analyzing and worrying about 100M of memory when the OS will do it's job and free it for you if you need it. And if you just plain don't have enough memory freeing up 100M isn't going to help much today when 1G is almost standard and 2G is common.

 

[flexy]

Originally posted by: Rilex
Of course, if you understood the VMM, you'd realize that what you're doing, even in script, is an absolute waste of time.

That never stopped the "tweakers" (aka know enough to be dangerous), though.

nope..what i do is different....respective really simple.

Just stopping/disabling A LOT of services easliy from a script, and then use a tool w/ profiles to also disable certain background programs like mbm5, viruschecker etc.

I was just playing F.E.A.R and i have 830MB FREE in XP SP2 as compared to 650 free with all my stuff running !

It's not rocket-science that disabling a lot of services also gives more memory.

The question is whether Vista has a feature where this or similiar stuff is done automatically...eg. switching off aero, whatever.

But the point is you CAN do all that anyway....is just some work

 

[flexy]

Originally posted by: Nothinman

The "sad" thing is that this all is possible already manually, eg. in administrative tools and with mscondig....but it is a LOT of clicking around and not comfortable at all ...it would be SO MUCH easier if there would be a feature for the startup-programs AND services to support profiles eg. msconfig.....eg. then you just click on a profile, reboot, and your system is ready for serious gaming

No the real sad thing is that you've spend this much time analyzing and worrying about 100M of memory when the OS will do it's job and free it for you if you need it. And if you just plain don't have enough memory freeing up 100M isn't going to help much today when 1G is almost standard and 2G is common.

i understand the basics of VMM, dont get me wrong.

However the OS will not FREE memory which is allocated by a running service which you for sure dont need to play a game.

look:

call IS_STOP_SVC clr_optimization_v2.0.50727_32 m
call IS_STOP_SVC cryptsvc m
call IS_STOP_SVC aspnet_state m

call IS_STOP_SVC MSDTC m
call IS_STOP_SVC cryptsvc m
call IS_STOP_SVC DNScache m

call IS_STOP_SVC IDriverT m
call IS_STOP_SVC PolicyAgent m
call IS_STOP_SVC dmadmin m

call IS_STOP_SVC xmlprov m
call IS_STOP_SVC NtLmSsp m
call IS_STOP_SVC SysmonLog m
call IS_STOP_SVC RpcLocator m
call IS_STOP_SVC NtmsSvc m

call IS_STOP_SVC vss m
call IS_STOP_SVC WudfSvc m
call IS_STOP_SVC MSIServer m
call IS_STOP_SVC WMIApSrv m

call IS_STOP_SVC fastuserswitchingcompatibility m
call IS_STOP_SVC httpfilter m
call IS_STOP_SVC ssdpsrv m
call IS_STOP_SVC termservice m
call IS_STOP_SVC upnphost m
rem
call IS_STOP_SVC eventlog a
call IS_STOP_SVC diskeeper a
call IS_STOP_SVC helpsvc a
call IS_STOP_SVC nod32krn a
call IS_STOP_SVC "pml driver hpz12" a
call IS_STOP_SVC spooler a
call IS_STOP_SVC seclogon a
call IS_STOP_SVC themes a
call IS_STOP_SVC stisvc a

all this services i stop/disable..cant you see that i gain some memory ?

Btw. its more like 200MB here of a total of 1GB i have. This is not THAT bad and i will defintly do that whenever i play some demanding games.

And network etc. of course is still running, so is ICF and ICS.


Edit: Lol the smileys Was not my intention

 

[flexy]

Originally posted by: Nothinman

The "sad" thing is that this all is possible already manually, eg. in administrative tools and with mscondig....but it is a LOT of clicking around and not comfortable at all ...it would be SO MUCH easier if there would be a feature for the startup-programs AND services to support profiles eg. msconfig.....eg. then you just click on a profile, reboot, and your system is ready for serious gaming

No the real sad thing is that you've spend this much time analyzing and worrying about 100M of memory when the OS will do it's job and free it for you if you need it. And if you just plain don't have enough memory freeing up 100M isn't going to help much today when 1G is almost standard and 2G is common.

almost 200MB more of 1GB certainly MIGHT help the one or other stutter/pagefile access you otherwise would have. I mean, it's for sure not a BAD thing to get 200MB more memory basically for free for gaming.

 

[Nothinman]

However the OS will not FREE memory which is allocated by a running service which you for sure dont need to play a game.

If the service is idle it sure will.

almost 200MB more of 1GB certainly MIGHT help the one or other stutter/pagefile access you otherwise would have. I mean, it's for sure not a BAD thing to get 200MB more memory basically for free for gaming.

Whatever floats your boat, it's your time to waste.

 

[flexy]

Originally posted by: Nothinman

However the OS will not FREE memory which is allocated by a running service which you for sure dont need to play a game.

If the service is idle it sure will.

almost 200MB more of 1GB certainly MIGHT help the one or other stutter/pagefile access you otherwise would have. I mean, it's for sure not a BAD thing to get 200MB more memory basically for free for gaming.

Whatever floats your boat, it's your time to waste.

nm,

even for new and upcoming games, especially "Gothic 3" they "officially" recommend turning ALL unnecessary stuff off, eg. virus-checkers etc..etc..

Of course, i'd RATHER get another GB....no question...but i am broke

Some games you want to maximize everything you have...and i am actually a bit surprised that eg. "FEAR" runs pretty good at max settings on my system. I heard things eg. that it has those "horrible" hardware requirements...but its certainly playable and my system is pretty old !

regarding services....do you have more information...eg. would it matter to DISABLE a service so it wont even get loaded...or just have a service at manual and "stopped".....would it matter in term of memory usage ?

 

[Nothinman]

even for new and upcoming games, especially "Gothic 3" they "officially" recommend turning ALL unnecessary stuff off, eg. virus-checkers etc..etc..

Lots of people recommend lots of things that aren't necessary. And with just about everyone having 2 or more cores, tons of memory and really fast hard disks it makes even less sense. On my dual Athlon 1.2 machine I can play ETF and transcode a movie without any problems so why should you have to disable your virus scanner? I can sort of understand the virus scanner though because it can cause load delays as it scans each file that's opened, but once it's loaded it should be fine.

regarding services....do you have more information...eg. would it matter to DISABLE a service so it wont even get loaded...or just have a service at manual and "stopped".....would it matter in term of memory usage ?

It makes no difference at all, or at least it shouldn't. Once a process exits all of it's resources are freed so from a memory perspective it looks like it never ran.

 

[tersome]

Originally posted by: misanthropy
What happened to the feature in Vista that allows you to shut down most of the OS when you're gaming?

I think it was pushed into Vista Ultimate as a sort of special gaming mode. I can't find the article right now, however.

 

[PingSpike]

Originally posted by: tersome

Originally posted by: misanthropy
What happened to the feature in Vista that allows you to shut down most of the OS when you're gaming?

I think it was pushed into Vista Ultimate as a sort of special gaming mode. I can't find the article right now, however.

Wow...that would be low even for Microsoft. Sure, we'll give you full gaming performance...if you buy our ultra expensive edition.

 

[Nothinman]

Wow...that would be low even for Microsoft. Sure, we'll give you full gaming performance...if you buy our ultra expensive edition.

They're probably seeing how much money gamers are pouring into SLI setups and crap and want to see how much they can bleed you for too. And the fact that most gamers jump all over ultimate, ultra, collector, 31337, etc editions of things I can't say that I blame them.