Vista Downgrade

[mikeyes]

Microsoft's official position on the downgrade of Vista to XP Pro:

Link 1
Link 2
(I know those are 3rd party links but they are direct quotes from the .doc files you can download from microsoft.com)

The information states:
"End users can use the following media for their downgrade: Volume Licensing media (provided the end user has a Volume Licensing agreement), Retail (FPP), or System Builder hologram CD (provided the software is acquired in accordance with the Microsoft OEM System Builder License)"

but where does the serial number come from. If you buy a new PC with Vista and want to downgrade to XP they above information suggests that you buy a copy of XP retail and use its code. If you do this you haven't downgraded anything you bought another copy of XP. So if you buy a computer with Vista on it and get access to a retail XP pro disk how and where do you get the serial number to install and activate XP?

 

[imported_eppenoire]

According to the MS documentation you have to obtain the CD from the company you purchased the computer from. For instance, if you purchased this from Dell, you would call them and they would provide you with an XP Pro CD. Apparently Vista will provide the key for downgrading the OS, then you need to call MS to activate and explain that this was a downgrade. In short you cannot do a clean install of XP, you must do the install from Vista. I will ask my contact to MS about this, because I wasn't aware that you could do this. He is at the GDC right now, but I am meeting him for dinner later tonight, so I should be able to get a confirmation on this.

 

[mikeyes]

I'm not sure what you mean when you say "do the install from Vista".

Any confirmation you could get would be great. Thanks

 

[greylica]

Microsoft imposes a big wall to common persons to do downgrade, in a form of augmenting the numbers of activations of Vista. ( Even if the consumers where unsatisfied. )
With the obstacles, only enterprises can downgrade with no worries. ( VLMs with VLKs )
Switch to Linux...

 

[Dahak]

Originally posted by: eppenoire
According to the MS documentation you have to obtain the CD from the company you purchased the computer from. For instance, if you purchased this from Dell, you would call them and they would provide you with an XP Pro CD. Apparently Vista will provide the key for downgrading the OS, then you need to call MS to activate and explain that this was a downgrade. In short you cannot do a clean install of XP, you must do the install from Vista. I will ask my contact to MS about this, because I wasn't aware that you could do this. He is at the GDC right now, but I am meeting him for dinner later tonight, so I should be able to get a confirmation on this.

That would be good to know, as im curious as well.
The way I understand it is , if you have a previous media and key, you would install it, call ms to activate, and say that it is a downgrade from vista and they issue a new key.

 

[mikeyes]

MS calls that a downgrade but its not. If you have an old retail copy of XP and you place it on your new machine you have paid twice to have an OS on that computer. Once when you bought it with Vista OEM and once for your retail copy (which can be moved from computer to computer whenever you want as long as it is only on one computer at a time).

The only way you could argue for the downgrade is if you take an old OEM XP serial and move it to a new computer. Since OEM's are not supposed to be moved from one computer to the other if MS allows you to activate the old OEM serial on the new hardware some could say they are letting you "downgrade". Again the problem with this is that you had to have an old OEM serial to start with so again you didn't really downgrade anything.

It's only a true downgrade if you rip open your Vista box and there is a Vista code and an XP code (or an 800 number you can call to get an XP code), or if the new Vista code were to work for an XP install as well.

As for the Linux question this involves work I do for a lot of businesses. Since a large percentage of business applications exist only in Windows format the Linux on the desktop concept is not really possible without implementing some form of emulation or virtualization. Most small businesses revolve around their one piece of software that does everything for them. Until a suitable replacement can be found they will be tied to MS.

 

[greylica]

Originally posted by: mikeyes
MS calls that a downgrade but its not. If you have an old retail copy of XP and you place it on your new machine you have paid twice to have an OS on that computer. Once when you bought it with Vista OEM and once for your retail copy (which can be moved from computer to computer whenever you want as long as it is only on one computer at a time).

The only way you could argue for the downgrade is if you take an old OEM XP serial and move it to a new computer. Since OEM's are not supposed to be moved from one computer to the other if MS allows you to activate the old OEM serial on the new hardware some could say they are letting you "downgrade". Again the problem with this is that you had to have an old OEM serial to start with so again you didn't really downgrade anything.

It's only a true downgrade if you rip open your Vista box and there is a Vista code and an XP code (or an 800 number you can call to get an XP code), or if the new Vista code were to work for an XP install as well.

As for the Linux question this involves work I do for a lot of businesses. Since a large percentage of business applications exist only in Windows format the Linux on the desktop concept is not really possible without implementing some form of emulation or virtualization. Most small businesses revolve around their one piece of software that does everything for them. Until a suitable replacement can be found they will be tied to MS.

I agree with you, some apps are so tied to Ms that we can do anything right now, but it's changing everyday. Not a long time ago ( near one year ago ), Lots of enterprises here in Brasil are tied to MS because of their ERP software. Now, with the strong pressure that the consumers did, most of them are now turning to real databases and other kinds of end user interfaces that can run linux. This is very good. Most of enterprises here are opting for use only one Windows for programs they can't get to trash and switching heavily to Linux and putting pressure on the programmers side of their ERPs to survive without Windows at any cost.
Due to a bunch of sues to enterprises for piracy in the last year, most of the CEOs here are taking a defensive approach using Linux too. Due to the changes in the form of the EULAS, most of them are thinking twice ( including me, CEO of Grey Silica ) and staying far away from Vista.
As long as we all know, Microsoft restricted the rights to downgrade 2 years after the launch of XP. In the past we where allowed to use 2000 or 98 if we have a XP Retail.
They changed this thing to OEM versions, and after this they change again to OEM above 5 licenses ( calling open ). Retail versions of XP or Vista are not anymore allowed to downgrade.
Well, after this they changed again saying that we can downgrade if have the disc for OEM versions, but the original disc for downgrade is not sold anymore by Microsoft even if we could pay for it.

Microsoft is confusing people to do anything that they want to do, this confusion with rights to downgrade changing at unspecified times and without notice can lead persons to do wrong things, like downgrade with Retail versions guessing Microsoft haves a linear conduct ( same conduct for downgrades until 2004, the year they start to change downgrade rights to everything that can be so much complex to anyone ) , and wrong things=more sues.
More innocents like Julie Amero to crucify.

Ever read carefully the small texts inside every box. It's where the bad things are found.

 

[mikeyes]

bump for any new opinions

 

[mikeyes]

bump

 

[John]

http://oem.microsoft.com/script/contentPage.aspx?pageid=553056

What are Downgrade Rights?

Downgrade rights are an end-user right and are documented in the product End-user license agreement. Downgrade rights refer to the ability of your customers to acquire the most recent version of Microsoft software but continue to run a previous version until they are ready to upgrade.

When and Why Would Customers Use Downgrade Rights?

Your customer is purchasing a new computer system and it needs to run the same operating system as their existing 10 systems?Windows XP Professional. You can preinstall Windows Vista Business on the new computer system, then offer your customer the added service of installing Windows XP Professional on your customers' behalf. The downgrade media must be supplied to you from the end user and must come from a legally licensed version of Microsoft retail, OEM/System Builder, or Volume License channels.

If the end customer decides to downgrade, they can use one legal version of the downgrade media for multiple installations. The end customer does not need to have one set of Windows XP Professional media for each PC they are downgrading because they have acquired legitimate full operating system licenses for Windows Vista Business , which gave them the right to downgrade. Your customer can run Windows XP Professional until they are ready to upgrade the system to Windows Vista Business?and at that time they would already be licensed for the Windows Vista Business they purchased with this new machine.

Summary: When an end user is using their downgrade rights offered under the License Terms in Windows Vista Business and Ultimate versions and they use both Windows XP media and a product key that was previously activated, they will fail activation due to the hardware configuration change when installing on the Vista system. In these cases the end user will be prompted to call the Activation Support Line and explain their circumstances to the Customer Service Representative. Once it is determined that the end user has a valid Vista Business or Ultimate license, the Customer Service Representative will help them activate their software.

 

[mzkhadir]

MS downgrade chart: http://download.microsoft.com/download/...-b198-7b9d3fe15611/downgrade_chart.doc

 

[eggrolls]

So no downgrade rights with OEM or retail Home Premium? I'd buy it right now if it was possible

 

[greylica]

And in the Box was write:

"Needs Windows 98 or Greater..."

I've installed Linux...

 

[Evander]

Can you downgrade Office 2007 to 2003?

 

[mzkhadir]

Originally posted by: Evander
Can you downgrade Office 2007 to 2003?

Yes, you can purchase a 2007 license and downgrade to 2003, xp, 2000 and so on.

Per MS: Customers who have licensed Microsoft Office Professional Plus 2007 are eligible to downgrade to Office Professional Enterprise 2003 and all previous versions as described above. Customers who have licensed Microsoft Office Standard 2007 are eligible to downgrade to Office Standard Edition 2003 and all previous versions of Office Standard Edition.

 

[mikeyes]

Originally posted by: John
http://oem.microsoft.com/script/contentPage.aspx?pageid=553056

What are Downgrade Rights?

Downgrade rights are an end-user right and are documented in the product End-user license agreement. Downgrade rights refer to the ability of your customers to acquire the most recent version of Microsoft software but continue to run a previous version until they are ready to upgrade.

When and Why Would Customers Use Downgrade Rights?

Your customer is purchasing a new computer system and it needs to run the same operating system as their existing 10 systems?Windows XP Professional. You can preinstall Windows Vista Business on the new computer system, then offer your customer the added service of installing Windows XP Professional on your customers' behalf. The downgrade media must be supplied to you from the end user and must come from a legally licensed version of Microsoft retail, OEM/System Builder, or Volume License channels.

If the end customer decides to downgrade, they can use one legal version of the downgrade media for multiple installations. The end customer does not need to have one set of Windows XP Professional media for each PC they are downgrading because they have acquired legitimate full operating system licenses for Windows Vista Business , which gave them the right to downgrade. Your customer can run Windows XP Professional until they are ready to upgrade the system to Windows Vista Business?and at that time they would already be licensed for the Windows Vista Business they purchased with this new machine.

Summary: When an end user is using their downgrade rights offered under the License Terms in Windows Vista Business and Ultimate versions and they use both Windows XP media and a product key that was previously activated, they will fail activation due to the hardware configuration change when installing on the Vista system. In these cases the end user will be prompted to call the Activation Support Line and explain their circumstances to the Customer Service Representative. Once it is determined that the end user has a valid Vista Business or Ultimate license, the Customer Service Representative will help them activate their software.

This still doesn't answer the question. Microsoft is saying that in order to use the downgrade right you have to already have the XP media and a serial number. If you do not own a computer and you buy a computer with Vista Ultimate how do you downgrade that to XP Pro without purchasing a retail copy of XP???

 

[greylica]

Installing (Pirating) your friends Retail software and Telling them you are using a key that already has been activated. But by the way it´s going , they can call you a pirate too.

 

[mikeyes]

Funny thing is all the Microsoft documentation makes it sound like is up to the PC distributor. I called Dell and asked them about it and they said no we don't do that you'll have to check with Microsoft

 

[greylica]

Originally posted by: mikeyes
Funny thing is all the Microsoft documentation makes it sound like is up to the PC distributor. I called Dell and asked them about it and they said no we don't do that you'll have to check with Microsoft

ping-pong, you still does not have your disc.
This is a tactic to make you very tired and finally desist and use vista.

 

[stash]

You're both wrong. Supplying downgrade media is up to the End User.

? If the End User chooses this option [to downgrade], it is noted in the Product EULA that neither Microsoft® nor the Manufacturer will supply such End User with media for such previous versions. The End User must provide the downgrade media and a valid Product Key.

? End Users can use the following media for their downgrade: Volume Licensing media (provided End User has a Volume Licensing agreement), Retail (Full Package Product), or a System Builder edge-to-edge CD (provided software is acquired in accordance with the Microsoft OEM System Builder License). End Users can use one legal version of the downgrade media for multiple installations. The end customer does not need to have one set of media for each PC they are downgrading, because they have acquired legitimate full operating system licenses for the most recent version, which gave them the right to downgrade.

? In the event the End User opts to downgrade, neither Microsoft nor the PC Manufacturer is obligated to provide customer product support for Customer Systems on which such previous versions are installed.

 

[BucNews]

Originally posted by: mikeyes

This still doesn't answer the question. Microsoft is saying that in order to use the downgrade right you have to already have the XP media and a serial number. If you do not own a computer and you buy a computer with Vista Ultimate how do you downgrade that to XP Pro without purchasing a retail copy of XP???

You would need the media -- yes. You can usually get a copy of the media four around $15.00 - that will have no code with it though.

 

[stash]

Downgrade rights are really intended to be used by customers with many machines, not individual end users. Downgrade rights are NOT "send me a free copy of XP" Note that downgrade rights apply to OEM licenses only, NOT Retail licenses.

Usually where the rights are used is if a customer has say 100 machines running XP and 100 licenses. They buy 50 new machines that come with Vista, but they need to stay with XP for awhile. Rather than buy 50 new XP licenses, they exercise their downgrade rights on the Vista license. They can then use the media and product key they already have from the 100 XP licenses to install XP on the 50 new machines.

Later, they can install Vista on the 50 machines using the original Vista licenses.

 

[mikeyes]

Originally posted by: stash
You're both wrong. Supplying downgrade media is up to the End User.

? If the End User chooses this option [to downgrade], it is noted in the Product EULA that neither Microsoft® nor the Manufacturer will supply such End User with media for such previous versions. The End User must provide the downgrade media and a valid Product Key.

? End Users can use the following media for their downgrade: Volume Licensing media (provided End User has a Volume Licensing agreement), Retail (Full Package Product), or a System Builder edge-to-edge CD (provided software is acquired in accordance with the Microsoft OEM System Builder License). End Users can use one legal version of the downgrade media for multiple installations. The end customer does not need to have one set of media for each PC they are downgrading, because they have acquired legitimate full operating system licenses for the most recent version, which gave them the right to downgrade.

? In the event the End User opts to downgrade, neither Microsoft nor the PC Manufacturer is obligated to provide customer product support for Customer Systems on which such previous versions are installed.

One of the possibilities is a "System Builder edge-to-edge CD (provided software is acquired in accordance with the Microsoft OEM System Builder License)". This could only come from an OEM software provider (DELL?). So unless I already have an XP VLA or an XP retail copy laying around the house my only alternative is this OEM disk that I would have to get from someone like dell.

By leaving the burden on the end user Microsoft is favoring the bigger company that already has an XP VLA and not the single user. What they are saying is, "Yes we'll give you the ability to downgrade but we won't give you the means. If you want to get the means you either have to have them already or you have to go get them" If you have to go buy a retail copy of XP Pro in order to downgrade your new Dell you have DOWNGRADED anything. Microsoft just got you to pay them twice for the same PC. And even the big business has to already have an XP VLA. If you were a small business and relied on OEM based XP licenses then your in the same boat. You would have to take all those OEM licenses and spend 30 minutes on the phone for each number explaining to some Indian who barley speaks english why your trying to re-use an already activated XP license.

Microsoft spent alot of money on Vista and now they are trying to force it on the world whether we like it or not. They offer this downgrade stuff that sounds good on the surface but underneath they make it as difficult as possible to use.

 

[John]

Originally posted by: mikeyes

Originally posted by: John
http://oem.microsoft.com/script/contentPage.aspx?pageid=553056

What are Downgrade Rights?

Downgrade rights are an end-user right and are documented in the product End-user license agreement. Downgrade rights refer to the ability of your customers to acquire the most recent version of Microsoft software but continue to run a previous version until they are ready to upgrade.

When and Why Would Customers Use Downgrade Rights?

Your customer is purchasing a new computer system and it needs to run the same operating system as their existing 10 systems?Windows XP Professional. You can preinstall Windows Vista Business on the new computer system, then offer your customer the added service of installing Windows XP Professional on your customers' behalf. The downgrade media must be supplied to you from the end user and must come from a legally licensed version of Microsoft retail, OEM/System Builder, or Volume License channels.

If the end customer decides to downgrade, they can use one legal version of the downgrade media for multiple installations. The end customer does not need to have one set of Windows XP Professional media for each PC they are downgrading because they have acquired legitimate full operating system licenses for Windows Vista Business , which gave them the right to downgrade. Your customer can run Windows XP Professional until they are ready to upgrade the system to Windows Vista Business?and at that time they would already be licensed for the Windows Vista Business they purchased with this new machine.

Summary: When an end user is using their downgrade rights offered under the License Terms in Windows Vista Business and Ultimate versions and they use both Windows XP media and a product key that was previously activated, they will fail activation due to the hardware configuration change when installing on the Vista system. In these cases the end user will be prompted to call the Activation Support Line and explain their circumstances to the Customer Service Representative. Once it is determined that the end user has a valid Vista Business or Ultimate license, the Customer Service Representative will help them activate their software.

This still doesn't answer the question. Microsoft is saying that in order to use the downgrade right you have to already have the XP media and a serial number. If you do not own a computer and you buy a computer with Vista Ultimate how do you downgrade that to XP Pro without purchasing a retail copy of XP???

Of course it answers the question; you (the end user) need to supply the CD and product key for the downgrade. Downgrading is an option that you choose therefore you supply the media.