Vista and its performance in CAD (using specviewpref 9.03)

[Lord Banshee]

Ok well have seeing this article from tomshardware (yeah i know)
http://www.tomshardware.com/2007/01/29/xp-vs-vista/page6.html

3dsmax XP - 12.755
3dsmax Vista- 1.287
Catia XP- 14.65
Catia Vista - 1.4305
Ensight XP - 12.645
Ensight Vista -1.156
Lightscape XP- 14.04
Lightscape Vista- 2.029
Maya XP - 20.46
Maya Vista- 3.302
Pro/E XP- 9.015
Pro/E Vista - 1.3935
SolidWorks XP - 18.13
SolidWorks Vista- 1.9945
UG-TCVIS XP- 4.30
UG-TCVIS Vista- 0.47
UG-NX XP- 10.355
UG-NX Vista- .1676

i thought at first, wow Microsoft is in trouble as 99% of all CAD programs use openGL. Then looking at the result again i though wow that winxp score was damn impressive for a x1950xtx. So i decided to do some digging and some testing on my own.

after some digging on toms site it self:
Here you see a crossfire x1950xtx doing in specviewpref 9 winxp
http://www.tomshardware.com/2007/02/08/gateway-goes-gaming/page10.html

3dsmax- 4.65
Catia- 4.86
Ensight- 3.33
Lightscape- 7.28
Maya- 6.46
Pro/E- 2.10
SolidWorks- 3.46
UG-TCVIS- 0.06
UG-NX- 4.13

wow this is a big difference from what they had in their vista/xp benchmark, slip up i think so. Maybe they were using a x1950xtx softmoded to a firegl 7250... that is the only way i think they could have screwed up this bad, but if that is the case then all their game reviews will be off too and games would probably run 0-5% faster in XP. But maybe the result is not from the same card? Not from same version... Something is up

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now doing some of my own testing
Vista test with computer in sig (HQ, 16AF, Vsync-OFF using 100.65 drivers)

3dsmax-04 Weighted Geometric Mean = 3.823
catia-02 Weighted Geometric Mean = 3.043
ensight-03 Weighted Geometric Mean = 5.607
light-08 Weighted Geometric Mean = 4.590
maya-02 Weighted Geometric Mean = 13.99
proe-04 Weighted Geometric Mean = 0.7421
sw-01 Weighted Geometric Mean = 0.9132
tcvis-01 Weighted Geometric Mean = 0.1327
ugnx-01 Weighted Geometric Mean = 2.479

WinXP test with computer in sig (HQ, 16AF, Vsync-OFF using 93.71 drivers)

3dsmax-04 Weighted Geometric Mean = 4.521
catia-02 Weighted Geometric Mean = 3.689
ensight-03 Weighted Geometric Mean = 7.100
light-08 Weighted Geometric Mean = 4.675
maya-02 Weighted Geometric Mean = 23.06
proe-04 Weighted Geometric Mean = 1.086
sw-01 Weighted Geometric Mean = 1.593
tcvis-01 Weighted Geometric Mean = 0.2786
ugnx-01 Weighted Geometric Mean = 2.541

So as you can see the difference isn't much for a gamer card (don't have a pro card)
Vista SpeedUp
3dsmax: -15.4%
catia: -17.5%
ensight: -21.0%
light: -18.18%
maya: -39.3%
proe: -31.66%
sw: -42.6%
tcvis: -52.4%
ugnix: -2.4%

So the average decrease is about 26.5% which is BAD but no where near what tomshardware got, a decrease of 89%.

So i think the performance will get better as time goes on, drivers need to get a lot better for vista but it would be nice to see CAD program migrate to directX or at least have both options (like 3dsmax) because Nvidia or ATi puts limits on gamer driver for directx with wire-frame acceleration so a gamer card will be just as fast a pro card if the app is running directx again 3dsmax show such if using directx.

So i guess my conclusion is there is a decrease in performance with vista and CAD program users so stick with WinXP for now, but the decrease isn't as bad as everyone says. I still need to do REAL program testing but specview is a good indicator for OpenGL CAD programs.

Hope this helps someone,
Chris

 

[Lord Banshee]

i would like to update with the newest driver from nvidia 158.43 beta. these are G80 drivers but adding the correct lines in the nv4_disp.inf make it work for majority of their cards.

anyway here are the newest test:


Now doing some of my own testing
Vista test with computer in sig (HQ, 16AF, Vsync-OFF using 158.43 beta drivers)

3dsmax-04 Weighted Geometric Mean = 5.551
catia-02 Weighted Geometric Mean = 9.204
ensight-03 Weighted Geometric Mean = 8.242
light-08 Weighted Geometric Mean = 4.352
maya-02 Weighted Geometric Mean = 18.21
proe-04 Weighted Geometric Mean = 0.6498
sw-01 Weighted Geometric Mean = 0.8759
tcvis-01 Weighted Geometric Mean = 2.808
ugnx-01 Weighted Geometric Mean = 2.475

Vista SpeedUp compared to previous WinXP test with computer in sig (HQ, 16AF, Vsync-OFF using 93.71 drivers) benchmark.

3dsmax: +22.8%
catia: +149.5%
ensight: +16.1%
light: -7%
maya: -21%
proe: -40.1%
sw: -45%
tcvis: +907.9%
ugnix: -2.6%

from these results you can see Nvidia is (1) learning how to write better vista drivers and (2) writing better drivers.

I hope they keep this up.

 

[dug777]

Thank you for taking the time to do this :beer:

 

[Lord Banshee]

No Problem

I been testing the difference in some of the Quadro control panel options that "can be enabled" on a geforce card and i am getting really nice scores almost as good as the X1950XTX.

I'll update as soon as i've done enough testing and hopefully someone with a 8800 series will test my theory also and maybe see a performance increase too.

*edit* i am also going to go back and say i was wrong about toms hardware being incorrect with there WinXP SpecView test for the X1950XTX. They are indeed correct. I believe it was my nvidia drivers had weird settings (not sure why nvidia choose these setting) to make performance quite slow on this hardware. Now it makes me wonder was it just my hardware or did nvidia do it on purpose for some reason....

 

[miniMUNCH]

I still think something is up with TH's vista/XP CAD test or at least with the test suite.

I've seen solid edge and solidworks run great on vista... no noticeable slow downs compared to a similar XP workstation right next to it.

 

[Lord Banshee]

well yeah their vista drivers must been set up wrong but the winxp bench seems right

as you can see from my last benchmark i am getting good results in vista...

and from some testing and setting some values in the registry have to save in accordance to specview vista is just as fast a winxp now. But this is with a gamer card that isn't testing any of the pro features so it would be nice to test be ran on a pro card such as quadrofx 4600 in XP and vista with newest beta drivers. But yeah that will not happen unless toms hardware or cgtalk does it as those are the only two site i ever seen doing good workstation benchmarks but they come every now and a long time

Just wondering what version of Solid Edge you using? my group might be migrating to SE soon.

 

[NatePo717]

What version of SolidWorks is being used? If it's anything but the SolidWorks 2007 for Vista it will use Software OpenGL not Hardware. In which case it won't matter what card you have in your computer.

 

[miniMUNCH]

The CAD stations are in our machine shop down the hall so I'll have to find out the version info tomorrow and update this post.

 

[miniMUNCH]

Originally posted by: NatePo717
What version of SolidWorks is being used? If it's anything but the SolidWorks 2007 for Vista it will use Software OpenGL not Hardware. In which case it won't matter what card you have in your computer.

I think we maintain a software maintenance contract. I think we also have ProE but more and more outside machine shops, etc. seem to be using Solid Edge these days.

I am no expert so I can't say why exactly but I 'understand' that Solid Edge's CNC integration is really good, among other things.

 

[Lord Banshee]

ok guys wanted to post my best results and the end of my testing for these drivers.

First of all i added the following profile in the nvapps.xml which is based off some ws_apps settings and some trail and error and more than i want to know benches of specviewpref.

-----------------------------------------------------------
inside nvapps.xml

<PROFILE Label="3D App - Custom Settings">
<PROPERTY Label="ws_buffer_flipping_mode" Value="0x00000000" Itemtype="predefined"/>
<PROPERTY Label="ws_render_quality" Value="0x00000000" Itemtype="predefined"/>
<PROPERTY Label="ws_force_generic_cpu" Value="0x00000000" Itemtype="predefined"/>
<PROPERTY Label="ws_single_back_depth_buffer" Value="0x00000001" Itemtype="predefined"/>
<PROPERTY Label="ws_app_softimage" Value="0x00000000" Itemtype="predefined"/>
<PROPERTY Label="ws_app_support_bits" Value="0x400202C4" Itemtype="predefined"/>
<PROPERTY Label="ws_z_test" Value="0x00000000" Itemtype="predefined"/>
<PROPERTY Label="ws_max_texture_mem" Value="0x00000000" Itemtype="predefined"/>
<PROPERTY Label="ws_overlay_support" Value="0x00000000" Itemtype="predefined"/>
<PROPERTY Label="ws_application_key" Value="0x00000003" Itemtype="predefined"/>
<PROPERTY Label="ws_overlay_merge_blit_timerms" Value="0x00000000" Itemtype="predefined"/>
<PROPERTY Label="ws_stereo_support" Value="0x00000000" Itemtype="predefined"/>
<PROPERTY Label="conformant_texture_clamp" Value="0x00000000" Itemtype="predefined"/>
<PROPERTY Label="ws_aa_line_gamma" Value="0x00000010" Itemtype="predefined"/>
<PROPERTY Label="multichip_rendering_mode" Value="4" Itemtype="predefined"/>
<PROPERTY Label="multichip_ogl_options" Value="0x0000ffff" Itemtype="predefined"/>
<PROPERTY Label="multi_mon_config" Value="3" Itemtype="predefined"/>
</PROFILE>


---------------------------------------------------------

So first i set my normal settings under the custom selection like AA, AF, HQ and such. Apply, then set "3D App - Custom Settings" application. With this settings you can't change none of the normal settings only triple buffering and vsync. If someone with knowledge on creating profiles know how to make these settings not grayed out let me know as that would be great.

Anyway here is the final benchmark with the profile listed above:
Run All Summary

3dsmax-04 Weighted Geometric Mean = 9.045
catia-02 Weighted Geometric Mean = 9.226
ensight-03 Weighted Geometric Mean = 8.194
light-08 Weighted Geometric Mean = 8.037
maya-02 Weighted Geometric Mean = 19.28
proe-04 Weighted Geometric Mean = 5.932
sw-01 Weighted Geometric Mean = 11.40
tcvis-01 Weighted Geometric Mean = 2.830
ugnx-01 Weighted Geometric Mean = 2.453

i have yet to try any real applications with these setting so i should be doing that the next couple of days.

*edit* just tried the same profile in winXP pro with 160.02 drivers and the vista is overall faster... WOW what unexpected result.... Now only if i could explain this some how.

*edit2* Retested WinXP removeing all OGL_xxx words from the registry and i get scores like the above vista one with some time vista winning sometimes winxp winning...

 

[Lord Banshee]

Vista Real World Testes:

Solid Edge v17
Visual Problems:
Selection boxes are not transparent, it cuts though opengl window, so you see the window under it. After changing all of driver options and zero out all the profile ws_ settings it still did not fix this issue.
Performance Problem:
I did not notice any slow downs but was not working with a complex model or even next to a WinXP machine doing the same thing. But everything was smooth.

Rhino3D v3
Visual Problems:
Selection lines look funny. When moving object the display is not updated correctly and the path of movement becomes artifacts.
Performance Problem:
Feels a tad slower than WinXP, but i don't have benchmarks to test this.