Vista: Access Denied!

[Boobers]

I'm not "...being belligerent and bashing Vista". I'm trying to fix actual problems that exist in Vista. BTW, fierydemise, thanks for the useful info. It really helped. And actually, it was a M$ employee who was belligerent. Maybe you should re-read the entire thread.

Apparantly, some people take tech questions personally...as if they actually wrote the OS themselves, individually. I personally find this very funny. Then, on the flip side, they assume if you have a problem, it's a personal fault of yours and not that of an overly complex file system.

The funniest post in this thread is..."Simple File Sharing is turned off in Vista because it caused inordinate amounts of confusion/pain with XP." So...simple file sharing was too complex?!? LOL!

I still get the ACCESS DENIED pop-up occasionally, but if I reboot I can move/delete the folders. I think one of the programs I'm using is keeping files open, even after the program closes.

I posted the problem here looking for help, but all some people on here want to do is act like they know everything, but the best advice they can give is..."asshat!" and "PEBKAC". LOL! Thanks so much for all the help and personal attacks...it was very kind of you.

 

[SoundTheSurrender]

huggles OS X.

Ya I said it!

 

[juktar]

still get the ACCESS DENIED pop-up occasionally, but if I reboot I can move/delete the folders. I think one of the programs I'm using is keeping files open, even after the program closes

I guess I am confused then.. This was the original complaint, it looks like you have found the solution, but Vista is still to blame?

Sorry, I don't get it.

I knew Vista was going to be a huge problem for some people. Security always is. Forcing people into security is going to be a nightmare as well as long oas people try and get by it by trying to take all the security out of it.

 

[Wellsoul2]

Originally posted by: juktar

still get the ACCESS DENIED pop-up occasionally, but if I reboot I can move/delete the folders. I think one of the programs I'm using is keeping files open, even after the program closes

I guess I am confused then.. This was the original complaint, it looks like you have found the solution, but Vista is still to blame?

Sorry, I don't get it.

I knew Vista was going to be a huge problem for some people. Security always is. Forcing people into security is going to be a nightmare as well as long oas people try and get by it by trying to take all the security out of it.

Hmm. The question is who owns your computer..you or MS?

I also get "access denied" issues on folders/files for no reason.

I would like to be able to bypass this easily for some time period by some easy method.
Instead of having to turn every annoying thing off permanently I just need a way to
do what I want and turn security back on. Like a five minute bypass.

This is sort of what we were told we'd have but it's not so.
This leads to annoyance where people will hack and disable it all..matter of time.

I really want that check box so I can run a program without voting yea or nay on it
continuously. I want to be able to delete files no matter what.

If Vista's security will eventually get rid of the zombie spammers out there then
great. I suppose more informed users will hack their way out of this dumb stuff
eventually.

 

[KeypoX]

Originally posted by: Boobers
I'm not "...being belligerent and bashing Vista". I'm trying to fix actual problems that exist in Vista. BTW, fierydemise, thanks for the useful info. It really helped. And actually, it was a M$ employee who was belligerent. Maybe you should re-read the entire thread.

Apparantly, some people take tech questions personally...as if they actually wrote the OS themselves, individually. I personally find this very funny. Then, on the flip side, they assume if you have a problem, it's a personal fault of yours and not that of an overly complex file system.

The funniest post in this thread is..."Simple File Sharing is turned off in Vista because it caused inordinate amounts of confusion/pain with XP." So...simple file sharing was too complex?!? LOL!

I still get the ACCESS DENIED pop-up occasionally, but if I reboot I can move/delete the folders. I think one of the programs I'm using is keeping files open, even after the program closes.

I posted the problem here looking for help, but all some people on here want to do is act like they know everything, but the best advice they can give is..."asshat!" and "PEBKAC". LOL! Thanks so much for all the help and personal attacks...it was very kind of you.

Yeah i think i was having some problems like yours as well but i forget what files i was trying to move ... good thing i kept a dual boot option lol

I would recommend that dual boot if you can...

Got to learn some stuff about vista file system i didnt know though ... like how to change owner

Also i agree no really help you much just kinda said it was your fault you dont know what your doing and to go review ntfs. LOL I have had some issues with vista tooo ... really not impressed thus far but it looks jazzy

 

[footballcoach]

Originally posted by: Boobers
Apparantly, some people take tech questions personally...as if they actually wrote the OS themselves, individually. I personally find this very funny. Then, on the flip side, they assume if you have a problem, it's a personal fault of yours and not that of an overly complex file system.

The funniest post in this thread is..."Simple File Sharing is turned off in Vista because it caused inordinate amounts of confusion/pain with XP." So...simple file sharing was too complex?!? LOL!

I posted the problem here looking for help, but all some people on here want to do is act like they know everything, but the best advice they can give is..."asshat!" and "PEBKAC". LOL! Thanks so much for all the help and personal attacks...it was very kind of you.

I agree completely. I don't see any personal attacks against the Microsoft folks trying to help. What I see are frustrated Vista users trying to understand why a simple file copy that used to work in XP and *should* work in Vista are failing.

The only thing that is "sad" here is people defending the MS techs. Yes, they are trying to help and I don't think anyone disputes that. However, their recommendations and advice are not working for some people. Are we all supposed to say "it worked" and move on?

There are some real issues with Vista and file permissions. It should not be this difficult. I doubt the people that are trying to help designed every part of the OS. Even if they did it shouldn't stop their customers from voicing their displeasure of these new security "features".

I went back to WinXP this weekend. Too much BS for me to deal with. Making simple operations outrageously complex in the interest of security just is not good design. It's like telling the root user in UNIX he's not really root. If I am an administrator I shouldn't have to turn off an extra layer of controls or reboot in safe-mode to be the "real" administrator. Especially when copying files that I already own from a PUBLIC to a PUBLIC folder. That's not security. That's insanity.

-footballcoach

 

[InlineFive]

It's not dumb stuff by any means. I've installed Vista on a few computers for people of different technical aptitudes and they haven't run into this issue at all. While setting up the system UAC can be a bit of a drag granted but once it's up and running there shouldn't be any issues. That is, if you aren't constantly doing things which are security no-nos.

 

[juktar]

Originally posted by: Wellsoul2
Hmm. The question is who owns your computer..you or MS?

I also get "access denied" issues on folders/files for no reason.

I would like to be able to bypass this easily for some time period by some easy method.
Instead of having to turn every annoying thing off permanently I just need a way to
do what I want and turn security back on. Like a five minute bypass.

This is sort of what we were told we'd have but it's not so.
This leads to annoyance where people will hack and disable it all..matter of time.

I really want that check box so I can run a program without voting yea or nay on it
continuously. I want to be able to delete files no matter what.

If Vista's security will eventually get rid of the zombie spammers out there then
great. I suppose more informed users will hack their way out of this dumb stuff
eventually.

It has nothing to do with that. What she is complaining about is a program that she seems to know is keeping files open. But it is still somehow a Vista access thing....

As far as files and folders? Where do they reside?

I am not sure what people are doing where they constantly get the prompts on. I only get the prompts when I am going in to an administration thing. Changing settings. Trying to move files into areas that are protected, etc. I run programs, and do not get those prompt. I would check for upgrades to the programs that you are running all the time, as it sounds like those program require a higher level of security for some reason.

I am not saying there are no issues, what I am saying that until you figure out the OS, it is going to be tough. It is not XP. Do not try to treat it like XP. I guess that is the best advice that you can get.

Change is tough to go through. But there is always XP to fall back on.

MS really is in a no win situation. If they did not do things like this, people would be complaining that they are not doing enough. If they do too much, people complain as well.

EDIT: BTW, I play WOW. I installed the game in to c:\games I update and add things to the Wolrd of Warcraft folder (UI enhancments and updates) all the time with no problems at all.

 

[footballcoach]

OK, I'm not too big of a man to admit when I am wrong. Tried same file copy with WinXP on the same system I *thought* was Vista causing the issues. Same problem! I then went to the PC I am copying *from* and disabled Simple File Sharing by actually "Sharing" the public folder (right-click, Properties, Share). Even though this *WAS* a public folder, for some reason it made a difference. This action reset permissions on all files in that folder. I then tried the copy again to my new WinXP install and it worked fine.

I think what really threw me for a loop here was the error I was getting in Vista. The error was "Destination Access Denied" which obviously would lead one to conclude that the disk (or folder) you are copying the files *TO* (i.e. Vista PC) would be the one causing the problem. Not so! Apparently, it was the *SOURCE* files the entire time. Ugh.

So, my apologies...I will give Vista another shot obviously, but at this point I am almost considering waiting until Service Pack 1. Then I will partition and install Vista into the new partition so I can dual-boot. I have a lot of old games and apps that I want to be sure work so this may be the "best of both worlds" for me.

Thanks,

-footballcoach

 

[RebateMonger]

Originally posted by: Boobers
The funniest post in this thread is..."Simple File Sharing is turned off in Vista because it caused inordinate amounts of confusion/pain with XP." So...simple file sharing was too complex?!? LOL!.

From my viewpoint, "Simple File Sharing" caused confusion because:

a) Some common actions (such as giving Ownership of a folder on an old hard drive to the new "owner" had to be performed in Safe Mode, and the solution to the "ownership" problem wasn't obvious at all if you couldn't even SEE the Security Settings of the folder.

b) IT professionals would ALWAYS use "non-Simple File Sharing" mode, so few had any experience with the peculiarities of Simple File Sharing.

I'm REALLY GLAD to see Smple File Sharing go away. XP (and Vista) make use of NTFS Security settings, and not being able to see those settings or change them makesi problem solving even more confusing.

 

[SJrily]

Without being belligerent in any fashion, I will state my option that Vista as it stands sucks. I can't save, move, copy, delete, open, close, and I can't even view the "My Documents" folder of my own created 'pseudo' administrator. It was a week before I realized there WAS a "my Documents" folder for me. I haven't met the REAL, built-in administrator, as he/she remains well hidden behind a curtain. Realize for this OS was grossly premature.

My Gateway system came pre-installed with Vista. Troubleshooting began soon and I learned that - according to vista - my gateway utilities may not be compatible with vista. IE7 nicely asked if it could download Adobe flash player for a MICROSOFT site - I said 'sure," IE refused to operate in regular mode pretty soon afterwards, and eventually the whole system started freezing up every few minutes. No Ctrl-Alt-D shut downs, but cold, hard reboots. Many days/hours later I solved the problem by removing Adobe plug-in. Go figure.

I also noticed during my troubleshooting that my BIOS does not even have Vista as an operating system choice. Wonder what kind of head bumping THAT is causing....

Oh - and the programs I use most - Corel, Paint Shop, Photoshop, Dreamweaver, WS-FTP, bluetooth are not compatible with Vista. I beginning to hear more about new release Access 2007 bugs picking fights with Vista bugs, but I was too late to prevent the buggers from dragging my new database into it - then they realized it was created on an XP system, so they decided to join forces and hold the database hostage.

I think it's in one of those secret Admin rooms. I have no idea what's being done to it....

 

[juktar]

Originally posted by: SJrily
Without being belligerent in any fashion, I will state my option that Vista as it stands sucks. I can't save, move, copy, delete, open, close, and I can't even view the "My Documents" folder of my own created 'pseudo' administrator. It was a week before I realized there WAS a "my Documents" folder for me. I haven't met the REAL, built-in administrator, as he/she remains well hidden behind a curtain. Realize for this OS was grossly premature.

My Gateway system came pre-installed with Vista. Troubleshooting began soon and I learned that - according to vista - my gateway utilities may not be compatible with vista. IE7 nicely asked if it could download Adobe flash player for a MICROSOFT site - I said 'sure," IE refused to operate in regular mode pretty soon afterwards, and eventually the whole system started freezing up every few minutes. No Ctrl-Alt-D shut downs, but cold, hard reboots. Many days/hours later I solved the problem by removing Adobe plug-in. Go figure.

I also noticed during my troubleshooting that my BIOS does not even have Vista as an operating system choice. Wonder what kind of head bumping THAT is causing....

Oh - and the programs I use most - Corel, Paint Shop, Photoshop, Dreamweaver, WS-FTP, bluetooth are not compatible with Vista. I beginning to hear more about new release Access 2007 bugs picking fights with Vista bugs, but I was too late to prevent the buggers from dragging my new database into it - then they realized it was created on an XP system, so they decided to join forces and hold the database hostage.

I think it's in one of those secret Admin rooms. I have no idea what's being done to it....

From the comments above, I would suggest that you keep XP if that is what you are comfortable with. If you would like to keep Vista, I would attend some basic OS use classes. See if some of the colleges and or school district in you areas provide any yet. This is meant to be helpful, not a flame. Some of the things that you have said above imply to me that you might have a hard time getting used to Vista without some training.

 

[Smilin]

Originally posted by: Boobers
I posted the problem here looking for help, but all some people on here want to do is act like they know everything, but the best advice they can give is..."asshat!" and "PEBKAC". LOL! Thanks so much for all the help and personal attacks...it was very kind of you.

Whoa there. Let?s not get caught up in revisionist history. Don?t try to pretend like you just got called asshat out of the blue. Don?t pluck it out of context either. You were given lots of advice by lots of people but remained generally hostile the entire time. Nobody is here to serve you. People try to offer others help by expending their own spare time. Nothing says they have to do it and certainly nothing says they should have to put up with even the slightest rudeness.

You didn?t really get much help from me at all because you couldn?t even be bothered to perform one simple step that was only the very beginning of troubleshooting. Here is what happened followed by the ?asshat? comment provided in FULL context:

6/15 6:39-6:41 Stash and I ask for a cacls output. The responses from you:

OK...figures that it won't do it now...I'll post next time I see the pop-up.
BTW...Please, I didn't blindly click on anything. I know every change I've made, and I can set it all back. I'm not a noob...I logged onto my first mainframe using a DecWriter in the 70's.

?various posts from others?

Thank you, Job. I think forcing UAC on end users is bad idea!

?various posts from others?

No offense to you personally...but that is EXACTLY what I meant earlier by JUNKY FILE SYSTEM!

(your emphasis)
?various posts from others?

The folders contain DVD files which are not in use.
As soon as it acts up again, I'll post the results of the command line function mentioned above...

?various posts from others?

Well...in Vista if you check the folder attributes, you will see a blue box in the "Read-only" check box. So now there are three options for the read-only box:
1. Blue
2. Check
3. Clear (Empty)

If I clear the blue box and click ok, it simply returns when I check it again.
This is built into Vista for my protection (like the Patriot Act)...
I guess this means the file is not read-only, but Vista is protecting it for me.

I hear that read-only applies only to files and not folders...
Anyway, the files themselves are not read-only.

Patriot act, very cute ? more various posts including a detailed explanation of the above?

I come back the next day, 3/16 at 9:28am. I read all this unnecessary junk above and realize there is STILL no cacls output so I take my ball and go home?

All you had to do was provide a cacls output. Instead you turned into an asshat.
Good Luck!

 

[SJrily]

I do appreciate any help offered, I can certainly use it! I would keep XP, but as I noted, Vista was pre-installed on the laptop, so there is no XP to revert to. I will certainly keep XP on the systems set up in my office. It made configuring my primary system for dual displays a breeze. Truthfully, I was being a bit sarcastic in my original statements, poking fun at what is becoming a very frustrating situation (and poking fun at myself a bit, too).

Nevertheless, I teach computer science (albeit high school) and my masters' focused on Internet technologies, and I am STILL scratching my head with Vista. I have to question why a manufacturer would sell me a computer with the 'latest' OS launching from outdated firmware, and why they would preinstall at least two programs known to conflict with Vista; and I think it ridiculous that a Microsoft website provides me a plug-in that renders their own browser useless, and that an Access databases originally created on an XP system doesn't want to cooperate when opened on a Vista machine.

These things, I think, go well beyond the expected learning curve. Even Microsoft admits much of the software/hardware isn't truely compatible with Vista. What's worse is I can't even return this for an XP laptop, they're aren't available anymore (at least at my local Best Buy).

 

[Smilin]

SJrily,
Why the OEMs are bloating up Vista so badly is beyond me too. I get sad when I walk through bestbuy and see the clean Vista interface all cluttered up. I'm running a clean retail install myself and I'm baffled by the trouble others are having.

To clear up a couple of your earlier concerns though:
There technically isn't a "my documents" folder any longer. It's be changed to \users. There is a link named 'my documents' that's left behind so that applications hard coded to use it will get redirected to the right place. There is an everyoneeny-list permission stuck in there to prevent users from browsing around while still letting those hard coded apps work (you can go to a folder explicitly, just not browse to it). This can be all sorts of confusing because at first glance without digging in the advanced button it appears you have Full Control. That Deny will supercede.

I'm not quite sure what you meant by your BIOS not having Vista as an operating system choice. If you are referring to the PNP-OS, OS/2 or other bios settings then PNP-OS which enables ACPI is all you would really need. If the manufacturer has a bios issue that causes Vista problems and is still shipping the old bios that would be something else (and quite dumb on their part I agree).

For the Adobe flash issue: Microsoft and half the world use flash on websites now so I'm not surprised you were prompted to install it. However, Microsoft doesn't actually make flash, adobe does. There was a bug in the previous version of flash that you likely stumbled into. To compound things, uninstalling and reinstalling the latest flash doesn't work properly. There is a FAQ over at adobe about it that includes a app to correctly perform the uninstall. It's not really a problem with Vista itself, it just rears it's head there.

Flash runs up in user mode, not kernel mode so it would be pretty tough for it to actually crash a box. If the system is giving you fits even after you close your browser something else may be using flash. IM programs running in the background often do. If you have such problems in the future, IE7 has a Reset button on the advanced options tab. It's the hammer that fixes 3rd party problems. It's harsh but it works.

I have no idea about the other problems you are experiencing including the Access issue. You would have to troubleshoot each down to root cause to really know if it's a Vista problem or not. Could be though. If you don't want to expend such efforts then rest assured XP will be a viable operating system for a long time.

If Vista is making you scratch your head I would suggest you keep at it. Figure it out now and you'll be ahead of the curve for a long time. It *is* a major change. Windows 2000 to XP was merely NT 5.0 to 5.1. Vista is 6.0. It's different.

 

[juktar]

Originally posted by: SJrily
Nevertheless, I teach computer science (albeit high school) and my masters' focused on Internet technologies, and I am STILL scratching my head with Vista. I have to question why a manufacturer would sell me a computer with the 'latest' OS launching from outdated firmware, and why they would preinstall at least two programs known to conflict with Vista; and I think it ridiculous that a Microsoft website provides me a plug-in that renders their own browser useless, and that an Access databases originally created on an XP system doesn't want to cooperate when opened on a Vista machine.

That is not too uncommon. Packard Bell did it way back in the day and it is still done today. Did they give you a real OS cd? If so, strat from scratch without all the bloat and see how it goes from there.

The best advice I have given people is, do not treat Vista as XP, it is not. Once you get by that, and realize that things have changed, it becomes much easier to deal with. It actually becomes easier I think. But it may just be me.