Vista 64-bit : what are the reasons against ...

[NoobyDoo]

What exactly are the reasons against choosing 64-bit Vista right now. Which apps won't work, what exactly will the user not be able to do, etc. Please give some specific examples.

Thanks.

 

[Puffnstuff]

You should go to the ms vista page and do some reading. I switched to ultimate 64 yesterday and now I'm kicking myself for waiting so long to do it. Yes I've encountered a few programs that won't run on it but I can live with that since the majority of what I use and need works. Take note that the major firewall/antivirus packages that are supported on 32 won't work on 64. Even ms liveonecare isn't supported on 64 which really pisses me off, more wasted money to ms. Now my system can use all 4gb of ram and runs better than it did before.

 

[yuppiejr]

Originally posted by: NoobyDoo
What exactly are the reasons against choosing 64-bit Vista right now. Which apps won't work, what exactly will the user not be able to do, etc. Please give some specific examples.

Thanks.

The anti-virus note below is valid, I went with the "avast" freeware scanner and it seems to work fine so far though. Some games will have problems installing since their copy-protection requires installation of an unsigned driver which is a no-no. I haven't gotten my copy of Shivering Isles to install, though the main Oblivion game is fine. Gothic 3 required a patch (linked on the game's website) to update the CD copy protection drivers.

I've got a stack of games left to install and am still on the fence about sticking with Vista 64-bit or going back to XP for a couple of months. The performance hit for gaming on Vista (primarily due to driver immaturity) is not worth the marginal benefit in terms of security since my wife and I are low-risk users.

 

[Skeeedunt]

It seems like most people who took the plunge to 64 bit (me included) have had very few, if any, problems. Being unable to install unsigned kernel-mode drivers is the only issue that comes to mind, and there's a workaround if absolutely necessary.

 

[NogginBoink]

The only drawback is driver support.

64-bit can run 32-bit apps, but drivers must be 64-bit. If you have legacy hardware that you want to use, ensure 64-bit drivers are available before taking the plunge.

 

[Mem]

Take note that the major firewall/antivirus packages that are supported on 32 won't work on 64. Even ms liveonecare isn't supported on 64 which really pisses me off, more wasted money to ms. Now my system can use all 4gb of ram and runs better than it did before.

There are plenty of free and paid versions of Anti-Virus software for Vista x64 like AVG,Kaspersky,NOD32,Avast to name a few,as to firewall I find the Vista one to be very good.

Only reason I can see is if you run a lot of 16 bit software,or no 64 bit drivers for your hardware.

 

[NoobyDoo]

Thanks, guys. Going with 64-bit.

Anyone else who can name apps that don't work with 64-bit Vista, please do so. Might help forum users make a informed choice.

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: NoobyDoo
Thanks, guys. Going with 64-bit.

Anyone else who can name apps that don't work with 64-bit Vista, please do so. Might help forum users make a informed choice.

I would say that 75% of pre-vista games require a workaround to run 'decent' (slower than XP).

Also note that iTunes doesn't work for vista 64 bit as of yet (AFAIK).

 

[cmdrdredd]

Originally posted by: NoobyDoo
Thanks, guys. Going with 64-bit.

Anyone else who can name apps that don't work with 64-bit Vista, please do so. Might help forum users make a informed choice.

Well, iTunes is not "officially supported" but it works 100% for me.

Some minor things like VLC player and divx also do not work at all. An alternative to divx is xvid which has no player (installed into WMP as a helper). I also have trouble with some picture software that works with my digital camera. Oh and Nero prior to version 7 does not work at all. clonecd/clonedvd does not work either.

 

[videopho]

I've been on x64 over 1.5 yr...
Admitted a tad rough at the start but I have no reasons to go back to 32, NEVER.
That said I'm going to build another intel rig with Vista 64 Home Premium.
Let's hope this will be a better beginning than last time around.

 

[Archenemy]

I do alot of architecture work, and some apps do not work with Vista 64 yet. Form Z is still on XP, and you would have to buy the latest Autocad version to get it to work. I just got a new setup, but I'm going to wait to move to Vista until all the software I use is readily available.

Form Z upgrade is probably $2-3K, and Autocad is probably $4-5K so those are 2 good reasons for me!

 

[Nothinman]

Form Z upgrade is probably $2-3K, and Autocad is probably $4-5K so those are 2 good reasons for me!

And those particular reasons probably apply to less than 1% of computer users out there.

 

[Zenoth]

Monitor drivers, ensure that you can find 64-Bit drivers for your monitor, if you want optimum control over your resolutions and refresh-rates. I'm slowly thinking to go back to Windows XP 32-Bit due to to the lack of CRT support on Windows Vista, mostly on 64-Bit. My CRT monitor, a LG Electronics Flatron F900B is not supported on Windows Vista 64-Bit, and is not correctly recognized on Vista 32-Bit (it has half the resolutions it supports on XP, and less than half the refresh-rates it can reach at the detected resolutions on Vista, compared to XP).

And because LG Electronics is such a great company they never created drivers for Vista, so I am forced to use my XP 32-Bit bit F900B drivers on Vista 32-Bit, hence the detection errors. On Vista 64-Bit it simply refuses to install the drivers, logic thing, since the drivers are 32-Bit, so my F900B is considered to be a mere generic plug-and-play monitor on Vista 64-Bit, supporting only six resolutions even with proper ForceWare drivers. It's perhaps difficult to believe, but it's that inconvenient and annoying.

I'm believing that Windows Vista forces the consumers to move on to LCD technologies, even though there has never been any actual technical needs to do it. There's no hurry for me to get rid of my CRT, but Microsoft, apparently, thinks otherwise, and I do not appreciate that. So, what's the direct, noticeable result of improper monitor support either on Vista 32-Bit or 64-Bit ? Well, being forced to play at 60Hz in all my games, and having all sorts of resolution and refresh-rate applying and detection issues for regular Desktop activities.

 

[n7]

Originally posted by: SickBeast
I would say that 75% of pre-vista games require a workaround to run 'decent' (slower than XP).

No way.

All the games i have played since installing Vista 64 were out long before Vista, & they work just fine.

Not saying there aren't some that don't, but that's not common.

Also, while nV/ATi's drivers aren't perfect, performance is very close in most games.
nV driver support has been & still is inferior to ATi's in Vista though.

Originally posted by: cmdrdredd
Some minor things like VLC player

VLC works for me...not sure why it wouldn't for you.
I have found it's a bit sluggish using OpenGL renderer vs. DirectX, & DirectX forces Vista basic mode, so i'm using MPC now, as it works beautifully w/ Vista 64, not to mention the benefit of using FFDShow (w/ MPC).

 

[CoBRaXT]

Just did a fresh install of Vista Ultimate 64-bit today and couldn't be happier. Everything I've tried has worked so far. It was a bit tricky getting it to work with my wireless card but once the correct drivers were found, it was smooth sailing.

 

[Mem]

Originally posted by: SickBeast

Originally posted by: NoobyDoo
Thanks, guys. Going with 64-bit.

Anyone else who can name apps that don't work with 64-bit Vista, please do so. Might help forum users make a informed choice.

I would say that 75% of pre-vista games require a workaround to run 'decent' (slower than XP).

Also note that iTunes doesn't work for vista 64 bit as of yet (AFAIK).

I find that very hard to believe,I have tried about 30+ games at least and only one required a workaround ,and that was for sound only ie..KOTOR2 (DDL.sound patch that you can find on the net).As to performance that's down to the drivers,personally I don't notice any real difference in gaming FPS wise.

99% of cases you can fix game problems by " running as Admin" and selecting XP Compatibiility mode,both can be found in compatibility tab by right clicking on the exe.file of the game concerned and selecting properties.

 

[jzodda]

support for some things is still shaky but that will improve with time I am sure. I am dual booting XP and Vista 64. Some things that have not worked well for me:


1. (and this ones killer) I am a bigtime gamer and the Belkin N52 is beloved. There are XP64 drivers but none for Vista. So I have to F8 every time I boot. Without drivers the pad reads like a keyboard which is ok for some games, but not for others.

2. Oblivion: Frame rates with lots of mods installed have taken a dive on Vista for me. With less mods installed (like texture packs) FPS is slightly less but noticable. I get stutter in Vista that I don't get in XP. Also I noticed some slight compatability issues with OBMM. For now I am installing that one to run on XP.

3. Ideazon Zboard. Has issues with some games on Vista unless I run the game in XP compatability mode. Issues are mostly the loss of mouse-click in games. Very odd, and very annoying.

4. Creative sound card. The latest drivers are fully working sound-wise, along with the Apps that you can download. The problem that I have is I lose the Vista control panel and many other system functions with the drivers installed. On boot up I have to goto services and do the following:

1) Launch services.msc from a run command
2) Find the SLUNotify service & stop it
3) Find the Software Licensing service & stop it (it may say that ReadyBoost needs that service to run; stop it anyway)
4) Restart both services, starting with Software Licensing


After that I get the panel back without a reboot. Now I don't know why this is happening to me and not to many others so I will assume that its a combo of creative's drivers and 158.45 Nvidia drivers for the 8800. If I un-install the creative drivers I get the control panel back. I may try another Nvidia driver and see if that helps since the above info came out of the Nvidia forums.

I haven't had the time to test many other games but Stalker installed, and so did Fear without issues. I had problems with CTD's and command and conquer 3, and so I went back to XP with that game as well.

I had a problem with my Network printer as well. Vista was able to see it but I could not get it to print. Finally I got it working after messing around. Turns out that after I do the above 4 step workaround I am able to print, but if I try to do it before that it will not.

Some things that work:

Power DVD
Office 2007
NOD32
Logitech setpoint
foobar2000 (run in admin mode)
3dmark2006 (install openAL for it to work)
VLC player (installed Vista codecs first-goggle it)
Fraps
Nero 7 Ultra
Foxit reader
CC Cleaner
Driver Cleaner Pro 1.5 (run as admin)
Abit Uguru (for temp, fan and OC settings)
Sisandra
nHancer (for Nvidia profiles)
Daemon Tools (run as admin)


Things that didn't work:

Ntune

 

[jzodda]

I find that very hard to believe,I have tried about 30+ games at least and only one required a workaround ,and that was for sound only ie..KOTOR2 (DDL.sound patch that you can find on the net).As to performance that's down to the drivers,personally I don't notice any real difference in gaming FPS wise.

You should believe it. Not everybody has had the same experience and smooth transition. Its driver related for the most part. Some drivers are better then others, and some combo's of drivers are much better.

It all depends on what hardware you have and the game you are trying to play. I have notices some FPS differences for sure. I am wondering if that would go away with 4GB of memory.

 

[lxskllr]

Originally posted by: jzodda
support for some things is still shaky but that will improve with time I am sure. I am dual booting XP and Vista 64. Some things that have not worked well for me:


1. (and this ones killer) I am a bigtime gamer and the Belkin N52 is beloved. There are XP64 drivers but none for Vista. So I have to F8 every time I boot. Without drivers the pad reads like a keyboard which is ok for some games, but not for others.

Did you try installing the XP64 drivers? I was thinking about installing Vista64, but if my n52 isn't supported that would be a deal killer.

 

[jzodda]

[/quote]

Did you try installing the XP64 drivers? I was thinking about installing Vista64, but if my n52 isn't supported that would be a deal killer.
[/quote]


they work, but are not signed so you have to remember at boot to F8 every time to load unsigned drivers or they won't work right. You can still use it without drivers but its recognized as a keyboard only. You can remap to some degree in game but no remapping with the software if you forget to F8

 

[lxskllr]

Ah, gotcha. I could live with that. When you said you had to hit f8, I thought you meant you had to load XP from the boot menu. Thanks for the info :thumbsup: That's one less thing I'd have to worry about 🙂

 

[n7]

F8 every time?

No wai...Rivatuner somehow automatically disabled driver signing here in order to run; i never had to do anything.

Also, stolen from the internets:


# Open Start Menu.
# In white line (Start Search) area type cmd.
# Right click cmd (at top) and click Run as administrator.
# Type ?bcdedit /set loadoptions DDISABLE_INTEGRITY_CHECKS? without the quotes (and no the DD is not a typo).
# Reboot and enjoy being able to use unsigned drivers in Vista x64.

 

[Mem]

4. Creative sound card. The latest drivers are fully working sound-wise, along with the Apps that you can download. The problem that I have is I lose the Vista control panel and many other system functions with the drivers installed. On boot up I have to goto services and do the following:

I don't have any problems with my Audigy 4 and Vista x64,you using a X-FI card by any chance?..

As to overclocking I use Gainward ExpertTool 5.0 Link. which works with any Nvidia card,better then buggy ntune,it works in Vista x64 too 🙂.

 

[jzodda]

Originally posted by: Mem

4. Creative sound card. The latest drivers are fully working sound-wise, along with the Apps that you can download. The problem that I have is I lose the Vista control panel and many other system functions with the drivers installed. On boot up I have to goto services and do the following:

I don't have any problems with my Audigy 4 and Vista x64,you using a X-FI card by any chance?..

As to overclocking I use Gainward ExpertTool 5.0 Link. which works with any Nvidia card,better then buggy ntune,it works in Vista x64 too 🙂.

X-FI extreme gamer. This will be the last creative product i ever buy. The lack of support from creative is astounding. The march vista drivers sucked and these, though they are better still seem like beta drivers. The fact I had to go hunting to download the apps is also amazing. For OC on the 8800 I flashed the card to special edition but thanks for the tip. I will download and try out that tool to see how much further I can go🙂

 

[gizbug]

Originally posted by: NoobyDoo
What exactly are the reasons against choosing 64-bit Vista right now. Which apps won't work, what exactly will the user not be able to do, etc. Please give some specific examples.

Thanks.

SEARCH the forums <shrug>