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virus protection: overrated?

P

poMONKey

Senior member
havent used any in over 2 years, dl from newsgroups and the like ( i buy... jeez
rolleye.gif
) and have 5 email accounts... i have never received a virus on my computer... never.

am i lucky? *edit*...and whats the most non invasive software you've used.
thanks for the replies... makes me wanna reformat 😀
 
I think it is a Necessity for businesses or corporations, you should see the things that some people open where I work. The reason you have not had a virus on your computer is that you most likely know how to spot one, it's the people that will just open any .exe .com etc in an e-mail sent from yourbestfriend@virus.com that seem to get all the viruses. I, like you, have not used any anti-virus software in over 3 years and still no problems. The thing I worry about, is maybe I'm just being too ignorant to realize I have viruses 😀
 
Yeah. I think you've been lucky. I've gotten the klez virus a couple times in my emails and a friend borrowed a bootdisk of mine a few years ago only to give it back with a boot sector virus on it. Even though the klez virus files look very suspicious, I still got curious... luckily, AVG caught it when I clicked on the file. Norton and Avast won't even let me download the file in the first place. It's nice to have just in case you get hit by a virus some day. If you don't want to pay for one, there are a few free AV's out there, although they aren't the best. AVG and Avast Home Edition.
 
I've been emailed plenty of viruses, and almost always have virus protection software turned off (it's required to be installed for work or it wouldn't even be there), but have never had my machine infected, as I don't make a habit of running .exes I have been emailed unless I am actually expecting to be emailed one and I know what it is. (And its not named anything like makmonyfast.exe). I've also downloaded a few viruses from kazaa but I don't double click the movie I downloaded if it has an .exe extension, an invalid 4cc code, and I can see the names of WinAPI calls it tries to make when I load it in an editor.

Common sense is the best anti-virus program out there.
 
To answer the question of whether or not AV software is overrated, I'd have to say for the most part no. IMO the majority of computer users are not likely to "know how to spot" a virus. How many grandmas and grandpas are given PCs so they can get another hundred pics of the grandkids? Or how many computer novices buy one so they can send emails or whatnot. Maybe for those of us that know what to spot and how to avoid the problem in the first place AV software is not needed. For a majority of the PC using public I think it is. For the record, I know how to spot a likely virus candidate, but I do run Norton Anti-Virus 2003 just for the piece of mind.

Just my two cents.

\Dan
 
Antivirus is also a necessity for anyone running Outlook or Outlook Express with preview window on and scripting enabled, since there have been a number of exploits that used script code running in the preview window to do "bad things."

Which is one reason I use Eudora and its built-in limited-HTML preview instead. Using IE for a preview window just isn't my idea of safe computing 🙂
 
Originally posted by: DaveSimmons
Antivirus is also a necessity for anyone running Outlook or Outlook Express with preview window on and scripting enabled, since there have been a number of exploits that used script code running in the preview window to do "bad things."
Click to expand...

I include NOT having scripting enabled as part of "common sense"

 
Originally posted by: Reliant
Originally posted by: glugglug

Common sense is the best anti-virus program out there.
Click to expand...

Agreed....that is all it takes and you won't get anything!
Click to expand...

I agree, I haven't used antivirus for over 3 years, never had one yet. Nock on wood 🙂
 
haven't ran an AV since 2000. I install norton for a few days, every 6 months and check it out. Nothing.

I don't really get mass emails and i think i might have saw some Klez stuff, but it was on a webmail account and deleted on the computers at Gateway. Guess im lucky.
 
For the average user who knows his stuff it's not very likely to get a virus. But just in case you get hit by a big one, you're screwed.
 
I dont' think it's overrated either, for two reasons.

1) Like Krackato said, I've heard many people say "I've never gotten a virus", only because they don't notice the trojans etc...

2) It's good piece of mind for people who are even computer savvy, and more for people who aren't. (But also refer back to 1, because I work in a software company of what you would think would be computer literate people, but we were hit by a number of viruses in the office until they implemented a mailserver anti-virus and set most peoples Outlook to read mail in plain text mode.)
 
Originally posted by: Reliant
Originally posted by: glugglug

Common sense is the best anti-virus program out there.
Click to expand...

Agreed....that is all it takes and you won't get anything!
Click to expand...

Except for the fact that common sense doesn't protect you from idiots. If you are on a network with enough idiots for co-workers their infections can spread to yours without you knowing it if you don't have antivirus software installed. A lot of virii nowaday spreads thru your network from a workstation.
 
People keep saying "I don't use AV and I've never had a virus". That's like saying "I've never been to the doctor to get checked but I know I don't have such-and-such disease". You'd never know it if you don't check.

I've worked on two different computers over the last month that have never had any AV installed on them and both of the morons told me the same thing. I installed NAV on each computer and ran scans and both computers were found to have many, many virii on them. The guys never knew because they never scanned....

YMMV. 🙂
 
Yep. Would anyone care to guess how many human beings have dropped face-first onto the pavement with surprised looks on their faces? "Nah. I don't have Coronary Artery Disease! I'd see a doctor if I needed one!" Yeah. Right.
rolleye.gif


I would also point out that there are viruses that can disable newly installed local AV software as it is being installed and, thus, still hide from detection. The people who are doing the most talking about common sense here aren't showing much evidence of having any. The first precept of common sense is knowing that you don't know it all. Claiming the ability to spot and avoid all possible sources of infection is akin to claiming that you have x-ray vision. Maybe you do. But, even if you are Superman, your advice doesn't work the rest of us mere mortals.

Of course there are operating systems and modes of operation the use of which make the acquisition of, and damage by, malware much less likely than it would be on an unprotected (by AV software) Windows system. But that's not really the topic, I guess.

- prosaic
 

I'm the anti-virus admin (among other hats) here at work. I've gone years without tripping my protection at home just because a little common sense and some self-education will pretty much protect you.

However, now that I've said that and gotten it out of the way here's my real take on it: If you don't use antivirus you're being stupid. Period. Antivirus is meant for two kinds of people: Idiots and Intelligent people who are human and make mistakes.

I'm assuming you're the latter.
 
I tend to agree...

I didn't have anything on my home system ever and never had a problem. I do use common sense and that helps I think. I only recently decided to put AV software on my PC - I scanned it and no virus's. My ex got a few virus's, ha, so I had to cure those for her. Didn't lose anything.

Here at work, we are more religious about it, and frankly I don't want my A$$ handed to me for not protecting the systems here.
 
Originally posted by: techwanabe
I tend to agree...

Here at work, we are more religious about it, and frankly I don't want my A$$ handed to me for not protecting the systems here.
Click to expand...

I hear ya. Our backups go by the motto: "Your job is only as secure as your last backup". Not sure what the anti-virus equivalent is but if I had a major, data killing outbreak here I'm sure I'd find out.


 
I don't think it's over-rated. I've had my ass saved a few times by AV. I've seen multiple HDDs eaten of PCs nearby mine. One of my old 486's went down completely (at a time it was no longer my primary machine, luckily, friend had used one of his floppy disks in it.) Later, a friend burned a CD **of comic scans** from one of his friend's and gave me a copy a week later. I told him it had a virus on it when I got it, he said "what?" His HDD was completely eaten over the course of the week since he had received the CD. He also so happened to have brought it into the highschool comp lab at the time and that machine was seriously OWNED by this thing too. Oops. I don't remember it's name, but it was a nasty one. Granted, common sense stretches a certain gap...but without *ANY* AV you're bound to eventually hit a virus that makes you wish you were careful to begin with. I even saw a commercial software site w/ infected binaries once.

For the record, I run PC-Cillin. 😉 Used to use Norton till that whole Magic Lantern news thing.
 
I guess the virus protection programs are overrated, yes. and it takes lots of resources (NAV!). Presonally I don't like AVPs, I backup my computer every half a year and checks viruses online (there are online sites that can search your computer for viruses-worms) every 2 weeks. What said above is obviousely true, I guess AVPs are good for ppl who can't reformat/use-backup if something goes wrong (like cooprations and people who work with their computers -saves a lot of information).. I know that when I was using Outlook I got worm_Klez and used my backup and then wiped Outlook -had no problems since then.. you may say these online trackers aren't effective as all-around AVPs but I hadn't any problems with my computer since worm_klez, my computer hadn't got any slower.. (and when I checked my backup cd on a friend's computer with an AVP it found nothing, too)..
but hey, that's just me 😀 😀
 
Yup, that's just you. And possibly everyone in your address book. And possibly everybody that suffers a DDoS attack in which your system is a participant.

You are not the reason why AV software ISN'T needed. You are one of the reasons WHY it's needed. It's not your fault -- at least not unless you use computers for more than personal use and haven't had an opportunity to get acquainted with the facts. The emphasis on the marketing of such products is that YOU may lose YOUR data or have YOUR operating system wiped out and lose (at least temporarily) the use of YOUR computer. But there's a lot more going on than that. I've seen computers that have been singing along happily for many months that were running Trojans and bots and just whacking the heck out of other systems, with their owners / operators none the wiser. Poorly run ISPs contribute to this problem by not tracking down the trouble machines and notifiying their owners or discontinuing service to them.

The health of your system doesn't necessarily affect only you. It can affect those whose addresses appear almost anywhere on your system. It can affect people you don't even know.

And a backup every six months means that you don't mind losing the last six months' worth of data, right? To each his own. But, even if you don't mind losing six months' worth, think about this. The last backup you made might be bad (or contaminated with something that will reinfect your system when you restore your data. It happens.

And you did understand the bit about some viruses that, once established on your system, may be able to prevent AV software you try to install or use from online from detecting it, right?

Those of us who really need our data and our systems, and who don't want to be a problem to others who are in the same boat, build a system in isolation from the Internet with known non-infected OS and software components. Then we install AV software, use firewall, and take intelligent (we hope) precautions before installing anything else on those systems.

I do sympathise with you when you allude to the way an operating system can be crippled, at least partially, by AV software. The trick is to chose the right AV software for your system. That may require doing some research of online sites that report on efficacy of the software and some experimentation with products on your own machine(s). AV software (and firewall software, too) that works on one system will cause bad behaviors on another. That's especially true in Windows 2000 and Windows XP. Why? Because that type of software installs pseudo-drivers that may interfere with other drivers on the system, and nothing will turn a system that runs drivers in kernel mode into a steaming pile of dog doo-doo quicker than a driver conflict or failure.

I'd like to see everyone really think about these issues. The computing public needs to become a bit more sophisticated if we are to ever start getting a handle on Internet security issues as a society. Using the Internet without AV protection and some kind of ingress-egress restriction on traffic is kind of like the (as yet unsolved) issue of driving under the influence of various mind/mood altering substances. You never know who you're going to hurt. Maybe yourself, maybe someone else, maybe both. Most of us can cause enough carnage even when sober on the road.

Bottom line, if you want to surf and e-mail unprotecte, you'd be better off on an OS with a lower silhouette that isn't so heavily targeted by malicious software -- like MacOS or BSD or Linux. At least then the odds would be in your favor, though you still wouldn't be home safe.

- prosaic
 
a word of an EXPERT, isn't it? guess so..
for that matter, I've never imagined being attacked for my so called "ignorance", but I anticipated a rude reaction..
basicaly, I accept you thoughts (maybe facts, I'm not *disrespectful* as others), though anyone is doing what is better for him, right? that's the way of world..
and I guess (in contradiction to others I can only GUESS) that if you know there is a problem an EXPERT like you can take care of himself..
I do, however, accepts many of your comments, despite your hostility (yes well, WE, the COMMON ppl, should learn how accpet hostility from YOU, the great EXPERTS, for our own foolish mistakes).
Good day to you, my lord. me and myself got wiser, we'll go now and leave you be as you are. thank you, my lord.
 
Originally posted by: RoseZalutations
a word of an EXPERT, isn't it? guess so..
for that matter, I've never imagined being attacked for my so called "ignorance", but I anticipated a rude reaction..
basicaly, I accept you thoughts (maybe facts, I'm not *disrespectful* as others), though anyone is doing what is better for him, right? that's the way of world..
and I guess (in contradiction to others I can only GUESS) that if you know there is a problem an EXPERT like you can take care of himself..
I do, however, accepts many of your comments, despite your hostility (yes well, WE, the COMMON ppl, should learn how accpet hostility from YOU, the great EXPERTS, for our own foolish mistakes).
Good day to you, my lord. me and myself got wiser, we'll go now and leave you be as you are. thank you, my lord.
Click to expand...

Hmmm. You certainly took my message in a totally different light than I intended it. Please let me reassure you that it was, in no way, my intent to communicate any disrespect or hostility. In point of fact I am not being hostile. I'm trying to disagree with your point, the point also made by others others, that suggest that anti-virus software isn't needed by the average user. I wanted you, or others reading the thread, to be aware of the fact that malicious software needn't make its presence known by causing degradation in your system's performance. Often the point of malicious software is to enable someone other than the owner of a system capable of using that system for nefarious purposes. Those nefarious purposes need not interfere with you, then end user, at all.

I don't set myself up as an EXPERT, nor do I consider you to be IGNORANT. I'd be willing to bet that you know a heck of a lot more about many things than I do. But I think you're not very knowledgeable about this particular aspect of computing and its risks. I have been using, maintaining, and administering computers on a daily basis since 1963, and I am trying to relate something that my experience has taught me. If I counter with an argument and try to point out matters of fact which can be independently confirmed by you and by others reading the thread to bolster that argument, that is no way a mark of disrepect for you, nor is it a mark of hostility toward you. I extend my sincere regrets that you feel that I have slighted you. I promise you that this was NOT my intention.

Because of the very different methods of ideation that are apparent in our respective messages I suspect that we differ considerably in background culture, and perhaps in native language. Perhaps this has had some bearing on our miscommunication. I hope you will accept the fact that no offense was intended.

- prosaic
 
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