Virgina set different standards for different races

[JTsyo]

NPR article

Here's what the Virginia state board of education actually did. It looked at students' test scores in reading and math and then proposed new passing rates. In math it set an acceptable passing rate at 82 percent for Asian students, 68 percent for whites, 52 percent for Latinos, 45 percent for blacks and 33 percent for kids with disabilities.

WTF? I kind of see what they were trying to do. Some kids start with a disadvantage, so don't hold them to the same standard as the rest. But I think that's the wrong approach. You should take the kids that are at a disadvantage and give them more help to catch up. Further splitting them by race instead of other social/economic factors also seems pointless.

Seems to me the school system is actually trying to get by without doing it's job and putting the kids at a disadvantage for the rest of their lives.

EDIT: theevilsharpie makes a good point below that the standard is for the school and not the kids.

 

[SheHateMe]

Damn, 33 percent for kids with disabilities!?

Seems to me the school system is actually trying to get by without doing it's job and putting the kids at a disadvantage for the rest of their lives.

Sounds more like they want to be less accountable for the lowest performing groups while at the same time taking credit for the highest performing. By lowering the standards..they don't look as bad.

 

[sigurros81]

And this is why China is gaining ground on us as an economic superpower. We as a nation, loves to celebrate mediocrity.

 

[monovillage]

Thank a teacher.

 

[Theb]

This is terrible.

 

[SheHateMe]

Thank a teacher.

I don't think all the fault rests on the teachers. I went to school with mostly minorities before I got into college. I can testify to the fact that some of these kids have parents with shitty attitudes that pass it on to their children.

I also keep in touch with most of my teachers from HS (the ones I didn't hate) and I hear from them all the time how un-involved parents are. When I graduated in 2008, there was letter that was sent out 3 months before Graduation to students who weren't eligible to walk across the stage. Suddenly, the parents start showing up at the school trying to figure out how they could get their child across the stage...they were practically non-existent before.

One girl, who I used to admire because of all the nice clothes and gadgets she always had earned only 30/200 credits we needed to graduate. Her mom acted like this was news. How do you NOT know?!

There are some Teachers out there that REALLY care, spend THEIR money on the students and REALLY try with some of these kids.

However, the behaviors and the attitudes are learned at home.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Ridiculous.

I find the whole idea of setting different targets for different races stupid and counter-productive, but am particularly startled by the differentials involved here. Saying, e.g., that the passing scores would fall at different points within a 5- or 10-point range would be one thing (though I still think it would be a bad idea), but saying that a 45% score (close to half the score required of an Asian student) is acceptable just because the student involved is black is just shocking to me.

I find it hard to imagine any intellectually honest explanation for this that I would find satisfactory.

 

[sigurros81]

Ridiculous.

I find the whole idea of setting different targets for different races stupid and counter-productive, but am particularly startled by the differentials involved here. Saying, e.g., that the passing scores would fall at different points within a 5- or 10-point range would be one thing (though I still think it would be a bad idea), but saying that a 45% score (close to half the score required of an Asian student) is acceptable just because the student involved is black is just shocking to me.

I find it hard to imagine any intellectually honest explanation for this that I would find satisfactory.

I'm not black and I find placing blacks right above handicapped children is rather offensive.

This is not the right way to tackle the issue of lazy parenting.

 

[techs]

If I understand this admittedly limited article I wonder if they are using these stats for No Child Left behind to show they are making progress and for no other reason at all.

 

[nehalem256]

I don't think all the fault rests on the teachers. I went to school with mostly minorities before I got into college. I can testify to the fact that some of these kids have parents with shitty attitudes that pass it on to their children.

Yep. Its the parents.

Although sadly neither party will will say that. Not blaming schools/teachers gets in the way of Republicans dismantling public education; not to mention they would be called racists for blaming minority parents. And Democrats are not going to come and blame their own constituency.

I'm not black and I find placing blacks right above handicapped children is rather offensive.

This is not the right way to tackle the issue of lazy parenting.

And how do we combat lazy parenting?

 

[Anarchist420]

The numbers pulled out of asses shit is ridiculous. Not to mention... how the hell is disability even defined? How is whether someone is black or white defined? What if the Asians are mostly south Asian rather than East Asian?

Why don't they just do genetic testing while they're at it? After all, they could reasonably divide into two groups, I guess, if they don't want to leave that many children behind (some were meant to be left behind)... Illuminated (northern populations) and non-illuminated (southern populations). They could set the passing score for illuminated people at 85% and the non-illuminated at 70%. That way, everyone who gets less than a 70% is out.

They ought to divide people into guilty whasians and innocent brown people if they want to show who the hell they are and if they really want to be Rooseveltian Progressives (i.e., Henry Clay National Socialists).

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

I don't think all the fault rests on the teachers. I went to school with mostly minorities before I got into college. I can testify to the fact that some of these kids have parents with shitty attitudes that pass it on to their children.

I also keep in touch with most of my teachers from HS (the ones I didn't hate) and I hear from them all the time how un-involved parents are. When I graduated in 2008, there were letter that were sent out 3 months before Graduation to students who weren't eligible to walk across the stage. Suddenly, the parents start showing up at the school trying to figure out how they could get their child across the stage...they were practically non-existent before.

One girl, who I used to admire because of all the nice clothes and gadgets she always had earned only 30/200 credits we needed to graduate. Her mom acted like this was news. How do you NOT know?!

There are some Teachers out there that REALLY care, spend THEIR money on the students and REALLY try with some of these kids.

However, the behaviors and the attitudes are learned at home.

I agree 100%. Even the most motivated and hardworking teachers (and obviously there are plenty who are neither) can't make a student succeed if he or she has no support at home.

 

[sigurros81]

I agree 100%. Even the most motivated and hardworking teachers (and obviously there are plenty who are neither) can't make a student succeed if he or she has no support at home.

It all starts with proper parenting.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

It all starts with proper parenting**

Oh no - the ****s are back!

 

[mchammer187]

Ridiculous**

I find the whole idea of setting different targets for different races stupid and counter-productive, but am particularly startled by the differentials involved here** Saying, e**g**, that the passing scores would fall at different points within a 5- or 10-point range would be one thing (though I still think it would be a bad idea), but saying that a 45% score (close to half the score required of an Asian student) is acceptable just because the student involved is black is just shocking to me**

I find it hard to imagine any intellectually honest explanation for this that I would find satisfactory**

Its not a 45% score it is 45% of black students are expected to pass and if your school is at that or above they are "doing good**"

 

[theevilsharpie]

Ridiculous**

I find the whole idea of setting different targets for different races stupid and counter-productive, but am particularly startled by the differentials involved here** Saying, e**g**, that the passing scores would fall at different points within a 5- or 10-point range would be one thing (though I still think it would be a bad idea), but saying that a 45% score (close to half the score required of an Asian student) is acceptable just because the student involved is black is just shocking to me**

I find it hard to imagine any intellectually honest explanation for this that I would find satisfactory**

The NPR article was pretty light on details, but I'm going to assume that all students will still be given the same instruction, take the same test, and be held to the same standard of pass or fail, with the standards proposed by the Virginia BOE simply being used as a means of grading the schools themselves** If that's the case, I don't have any problems with it**

Regardless of how much people wish it weren't so, different socioeconomic groups (with race being a more easily-measured proxy) have different levels of academic preparation and achievement, much of which is outside of the state's control** Holding everyone to the standards of the lowest scoring students shortchanges everyone more advanced, and holding everyone to the highest standards sets the school up for failure** Splitting up reporting into groups that traditionally have differing levels of academic achievement allows the BOE to set goals that are realistically attainable, and as long as each group is held to a perpetually increasing standard, it's still in line with the spirit of NCLB**

But of course, we can't adopt practical solutions, because that would be racist

Edit: What the fuck happened to my post?

 

[monovillage]

It's not the parents that are saying a score of 45 is passing for an Black child, but a score of 82 is passing for an Asian child, it's the teachers union and the education establishment**

You can blame some parents for some things, but not this**

 

[sigurros81]

It's not the parents that are saying a score of 45 is passing for an Black child, but a score of 82 is passing for an Asian child, it's the teachers union and the education establishment**

You can blame some parents for some things, but not this**

Who's blaming the parents for a jacked up policy established by the school system, no one** I blame the parents for the fact that kids are lazy in this country**

 

[peonyu]

Ridiculous.

I find the whole idea of setting different targets for different races stupid and counter-productive, but am particularly startled by the differentials involved here. Saying, e.g., that the passing scores would fall at different points within a 5- or 10-point range would be one thing (though I still think it would be a bad idea), but saying that a 45% score (close to half the score required of an Asian student) is acceptable just because the student involved is black is just shocking to me.

I find it hard to imagine any intellectually honest explanation for this that I would find satisfactory.

It really shouldnt be shocking, black kids do worse on average than other races do in school. Its backed up by statistics going back to the 1920s. The schools are simply trying to "work with it" by lowering the standard for some [black and latinos] while raising it for others...

If the shock part is that the schools are lowering the standard then dont be shocked, they did try numerous times to fix poor black grades in the past. Hell its where the movie fad of having a white teacher go to the hood to teach black kids came from..

Dangerous Minds
Freedom Writers
etc
etc
etc

However black people DO excell at sports! There is a good side to everything afterall. Maybe the next genre of movies will have a black guy go to a rural white town to teach white kids how to play bball...Who knows ???!

 

[wuliheron]

Crazy bureaucrats insisting on numbers for everything so they can justify their jobs and the more numbers they have the more they can manipulate them to make themselves look good. Bottom line is according to the National Science Foundation one in five Americans still believes the sun revolves around the earth. That's not a problem with the education system, it's flat out denial and nothing the schools can do can encourage these kids to learn anything in such an environment.

 

[JTsyo]

The NPR article was pretty light on details, but I'm going to assume that all students will still be given the same instruction, take the same test, and be held to the same standard of pass or fail, with the standards proposed by the Virginia BOE simply being used as a means of grading the schools themselves** If that's the case, I don't have any problems with it**

Regardless of how much people wish it weren't so, different socioeconomic groups (with race being a more easily-measured proxy) have different levels of academic preparation and achievement, much of which is outside of the state's control** Holding everyone to the standards of the lowest scoring students shortchanges everyone more advanced, and holding everyone to the highest standards sets the school up for failure** Splitting up reporting into groups that traditionally have differing levels of academic achievement allows the BOE to set goals that are realistically attainable, and as long as each group is held to a perpetually increasing standard, it's still in line with the spirit of NCLB**

But of course, we can't adopt practical solutions, because that would be racist

Edit: What the fuck happened to my post?

Oh if that's the case then it's not as bad. It's misleading the way it's written. It makes a lot more sense, can't see them failing kids scoring 80% on a test.

 

[episodic]

This is terrible.

You REALLY think teachers have any say in any of this? If so, I'm speechless.

 

[DrPizza]

(edit: long rant removed)

Let me just say this: Go here: http://www.nysedregents.org/IntegratedAlgebra/
Look at an Algebra exam for NY. Reasonable.
Now, look at the scaled scores - see, the test is worth 87 points instead of 100, and despite most experienced teachers being capable of repeatedly being able to make their own exams at the same level of difficulty year after year after year, with quite a bit of reliability, instead, we have to pay millions of dollars to develop these exams (then listen to the complaints that the budget doesn't have enough money to develop these exams.) Damn it - I'm starting to rant again...

Anyway, once upon a time, NY has some of the highest standards in the nation. There was "you're college material, take this math course." And, "you're not college material, take this consumer math course so that you'll be functional in the real world (amazing the kids who don't even know what balancing a check book means, huh?) Now it's "NCLB and everyone is taking the same math course to graduate from high school."

The results? Look at the test. We have "Scaled Scores." So, out of 87 points, you need so many points in order for it to equate to 65%. Let's see... I think I can do this in my head. 65% of 87 is somewhere around 56-57 points. 30 of the questions are multiple choice - 2 points each. That shouldn't be to hard to do, is it 56 points to pass? Nope, lower. How about 50? Nope, lower. 45? Nope, lower. How about 40? Nope, lower. You've gotta be shitting me. How about 35? Nope, lower. Seriously, wtf. 30? BINGO, yes, you need to get 30 points out of 87 points in order to pass the exam. "But, that's only a 34%" Yes, I know, that might be difficult. Especially with really tough problems like "what's the value of -2xy² when x=-2 and y=-3." But, don't fret, you're required to be provided with a graphing calculator that'll do that for you. And, how about, "graph the line y=2x+3 and the parabola y=x² +2x +2 and find the points of intersection." Don't forget to use your GRAPHING calculator. (That's good for FOUR points.)

*sigh* I disagree with what NC is doing. But, it's a hell of a lot better than what NY is doing, which is setting that 34% as passing for ALL students

<--- edit, note teacher. We're not happy with this. Though, since many of my colleagues, especially in some other schools have a lot of special ed students, and we're now evaluated based on the performance of each and every student, many are happy for that since the Algebra exam is a requirement for graduation that at least it's achievable for the vast majority of students. FWIW, I had a special ed student last year; he/she scored in the low to mid 90's.

 

[sigurros81]

(edit: long rant removed)

Let me just say this: Go here: http://www.nysedregents.org/IntegratedAlgebra/
Look at an Algebra exam for NY. Reasonable.
Now, look at the scaled scores - see, the test is worth 87 points instead of 100, and despite most experienced teachers being capable of repeatedly being able to make their own exams at the same level of difficulty year after year after year, with quite a bit of reliability, instead, we have to pay millions of dollars to develop these exams (then listen to the complaints that the budget doesn't have enough money to develop these exams.) Damn it - I'm starting to rant again...

Anyway, once upon a time, NY has some of the highest standards in the nation. There was "you're college material, take this math course." And, "you're not college material, take this consumer math course so that you'll be functional in the real world (amazing the kids who don't even know what balancing a check book means, huh?) Now it's "NCLB and everyone is taking the same math course to graduate from high school."

The results? Look at the test. We have "Scaled Scores." So, out of 87 points, you need so many points in order for it to equate to 65%. Let's see... I think I can do this in my head. 65% of 87 is somewhere around 56-57 points. 30 of the questions are multiple choice - 2 points each. That shouldn't be to hard to do, is it 56 points to pass? Nope, lower. How about 50? Nope, lower. 45? Nope, lower. How about 40? Nope, lower. You've gotta be shitting me. How about 35? Nope, lower. Seriously, wtf. 30? BINGO, yes, you need to get 30 points out of 87 points in order to pass the exam. "But, that's only a 34%" Yes, I know, that might be difficult. Especially with really tough problems like "what's the value of -2xy² when x=-2 and y=-3." But, don't fret, you're required to be provided with a graphing calculator that'll do that for you. And, how about, "graph the line y=2x+3 and the parabola y=x² +2x +2 and find the points of intersection." Don't forget to use your GRAPHING calculator. (That's good for FOUR points.)

*sigh* I disagree with what NC is doing. But, it's a hell of a lot better than what NY is doing, which is setting that 34% as passing for ALL students

<--- edit, note teacher. We're not happy with this. Though, since many of my colleagues, especially in some other schools have a lot of special ed students, and we're now evaluated based on the performance of each and every student, many are happy for that since the Algebra exam is a requirement for graduation that at least it's achievable for the vast majority of students. FWIW, I had a special ed student last year; he/she scored in the low to mid 90's.

I don't understand why the United States have to get so scientific in trying to improve the education of our students. It really comes down to simple discipline, as I've stated, with the family at home, specifically the parents. Give the teachers a break and stop it with all these programs and procedures. There are students in other countries sitting in a classroom with a dirt floor, no computers or special treatment, and they're learning calculus.

If the kids are not motivated to learn, there is nothing the system can do to fix it. It has nothing to do with race. Asian kids are stereotypically good with math because their parents drive them to be, and whether that is right or wrong is left for another debate.

American kids are just lazy, pure and simple.

 

[Mursilis]

I don't think all the fault rests on the teachers. I went to school with mostly minorities before I got into college. I can testify to the fact that some of these kids have parents with shitty attitudes that pass it on to their children.

I also keep in touch with most of my teachers from HS (the ones I didn't hate) and I hear from them all the time how un-involved parents are. When I graduated in 2008, there was letter that was sent out 3 months before Graduation to students who weren't eligible to walk across the stage. Suddenly, the parents start showing up at the school trying to figure out how they could get their child across the stage...they were practically non-existent before.

One girl, who I used to admire because of all the nice clothes and gadgets she always had earned only 30/200 credits we needed to graduate. Her mom acted like this was news. How do you NOT know?!

There are some Teachers out there that REALLY care, spend THEIR money on the students and REALLY try with some of these kids.

However, the behaviors and the attitudes are learned at home.

This. For the love of all things good and pure, this.