Vietnam Vets Blast Kerry in New TV Ad

[Riprorin]

Link

 

[Vic]

Yawn... and a guy in my office is an outspoken member of the Vietnam Veterans for Kerry campaign. Did 3 tours as a Marine in 'Nam, which he'll tell you all about if you'll listen. Wears his Kerry button everyday, talks about Kerry with anyone who will listen, and has urged me on a number of occasions to come to a Democratic party rally (naturally, I declined).

I don't think that any single veterans group speaks for ALL veterans, so why do you keep trolling this crap, Rip?

 

[Spamela]

written by a guy who's been a long-time GOP stooge &
who's law-firm partner was "General Counsel to Governor George W. Bush 1998-2000."

look here.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: Spamela
written by a guy who's been a long-time GOP stooge &
who's law-firm partner was "General Counsel to Governor George W. Bush 1998-2000."

look here.

So this makes other swiftsvets opinions invalid?

 

[Riprorin]

Originally posted by: Spamela
written by a guy who's been a long-time GOP stooge &
who's law-firm partner was "General Counsel to Governor George W. Bush 1998-2000."

look here.

"Please don't fall for the McCarthyite attacks on the spokesmen, especially O'Neil. Guilt by association is ugly, but that's the only defense Kerry has. When you hear charges that they are part of a Republican attack machine, recognize that there was nothing to be gained by the 300 members of this group, Also, the group is a 527 organization, which prohibits it from working with a political party."

Link

 

[umbrella39]

Boy, after viewing that Ad I know I am still going to vote for John Kerry. That must have been one crowded swiftboat he commanded to have all those vets that stood on stage with him at the DNC sitting on the laps of all those disgruntled Kerry haters from the Ad. Just amazing how they all paint such different pictures of the man.

 

[Todd33]

Must be the same idiot that was dug up to slander Kerry by Nixon, I won't even bother to look. This shows how low Republicans are.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: umbrella39
Boy, after viewing that Ad I know I am still going to vote for John Kerry. That must have been one crowded swiftboat he commanded to have all those vets that stood on stage with him at the DNC sitting on the laps of all those disgruntled Kerry haters from the Ad. Just amazing how they all paint such different pictures of the man.

There were fellow swift captains, not crew.

 

[Riprorin]

Originally posted by: umbrella39
Boy, after viewing that Ad I know I am still going to vote for John Kerry. That must have been one crowded swiftboat he commanded to have all those vets that stood on stage with him at the DNC sitting on the laps of all those disgruntled Kerry haters from the Ad. Just amazing how they all paint such different pictures of the man.

Here's the motivation for the ad and the upcoming book:

John O'Neill is part of an organization ( Swift Boat Veterans for the Truth ) which has about 300 members. They all signed a letter asserting that John Kerry is unfit to be the Commander in Chief. They presented this early in the campaign ( May 5 ) because they wanted the Democratic party to have a chance to pick another nominee if this derailed Kerry. A significant number of Democrats in the organization felt that was important.

When the press conference was mostly ignored (even though every one of Kerry's commanding officers up through CINCPAC [CINCPAC, deceased, represented by his son] stepped forward and attested to their signing to his lack of qualification), the group chose to write a book to get out the word. That is the reason for this book: to clarify the history and to remove the stains that Kerry painted all Vietnam Vets with, and to avoid the inevitable media filter.

 

[Red Dawn]

The Right stoops low to tarnish a decorate Viet Nam Vetran just to win an Elelction. First Cleveland and now Kerry. Funny most of those in the White House did all they could to stay out of that conflict. Seems a little Hypocritical to me.

 

[OneOfTheseDays]

it's disgusting. the american public needs to backlash against rep. for bringing down politics to such a disgusting, low, and dirty level. you can't say the democrats are doing the same thing because they are clearly not.

 

[Riprorin]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
The Right stoops low to tarnish a decorate Viet Nam Vetran just to win an Elelction. First Cleveland and now Kerry. Funny most of those in the White House did all they could to stay out of that conflict. Seems a little Hypocritical to me.

"They presented this early in the campaign ( May 5 ) because they wanted the Democratic party to have a chance to pick another nominee if this derailed Kerry. A significant number of Democrats in the organization felt that was important."

"Please don't fall for the McCarthyite attacks on the spokesmen, especially O'Neil. Guilt by association is ugly, but that's the only defense Kerry has. When you hear charges that they are part of a Republican attack machine, recognize that there was nothing to be gained by the 300 members of this group, Also, the group is a 527 organization, which prohibits it from working with a political party."

 

[Fingolfin269]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
The Right stoops low to tarnish a decorate Viet Nam Vetran just to win an Elelction. First Cleveland and now Kerry. Funny most of those in the White House did all they could to stay out of that conflict. Seems a little Hypocritical to me.

I agree. I may not see eye to eye with Kerry on everything but I see no reason to smear his Vietnam record in an election advertisement.

 

[bozack]

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: Spamela
written by a guy who's been a long-time GOP stooge &
who's law-firm partner was "General Counsel to Governor George W. Bush 1998-2000."

look here.

So this makes other swiftsvets opinions invalid?

of course charrison, don't you know that anything which isn't pro kerry/edwards is invalid by default.

 

[Riprorin]

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
The Right stoops low to tarnish a decorate Viet Nam Vetran just to win an Elelction. First Cleveland and now Kerry. Funny most of those in the White House did all they could to stay out of that conflict. Seems a little Hypocritical to me.

I agree. I may not see eye to eye with Kerry on everything but I see no reason to smear his Vietnam record in an election advertisement.

The reason for the upcoming book and this ad is that Republicans and Democrats who served with him in Vietnam believe that he is "unfit for command".

Unfit for Command : Swift Boat Veterans Speak Out Against John Kerry

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Riprorin

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
The Right stoops low to tarnish a decorate Viet Nam Vetran just to win an Elelction. First Cleveland and now Kerry. Funny most of those in the White House did all they could to stay out of that conflict. Seems a little Hypocritical to me.

"They presented this early in the campaign ( May 5 ) because they wanted the Democratic party to have a chance to pick another nominee if this derailed Kerry. A significant number of Democrats in the organization felt that was important."

"Please don't fall for the McCarthyite attacks on the spokesmen, especially O'Neil. Guilt by association is ugly, but that's the only defense Kerry has. When you hear charges that they are part of a Republican attack machine, recognize that there was nothing to be gained by the 300 members of this group, Also, the group is a 527 organization, which prohibits it from working with a political party."

The only McCarthyite attacks are coming from the Right calling Kerry a Traitor for his outspokeness against the Viet Nam war. If anybody had a right to speak out about it, it is those who risked their lives over there doing their duty.

 

[umbrella39]

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: umbrella39
Boy, after viewing that Ad I know I am still going to vote for John Kerry. That must have been one crowded swiftboat he commanded to have all those vets that stood on stage with him at the DNC sitting on the laps of all those disgruntled Kerry haters from the Ad. Just amazing how they all paint such different pictures of the man.

There were fellow swift captains, not crew.

Ah, who better to know the character of the man than people who were not on Kerry's boat. Got it.

 

[Riprorin]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Riprorin

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
The Right stoops low to tarnish a decorate Viet Nam Vetran just to win an Elelction. First Cleveland and now Kerry. Funny most of those in the White House did all they could to stay out of that conflict. Seems a little Hypocritical to me.

"They presented this early in the campaign ( May 5 ) because they wanted the Democratic party to have a chance to pick another nominee if this derailed Kerry. A significant number of Democrats in the organization felt that was important."

"Please don't fall for the McCarthyite attacks on the spokesmen, especially O'Neil. Guilt by association is ugly, but that's the only defense Kerry has. When you hear charges that they are part of a Republican attack machine, recognize that there was nothing to be gained by the 300 members of this group, Also, the group is a 527 organization, which prohibits it from working with a political party."

The only McCarthyite attacks are coming from the Right calling Kerry a Traitor for his outspokeness against the Viet Nam war. If anybody had a right to speak out about it, it is those who risked their lives over there doing their duty.

There's more to this than just his reprehensible behavior after he war. Guess we'll have to wait for the book to come out to get the details.

BTW, as Kerry is wrapping himself in his service record in this campaign, don't you think that examination of that record is fair game?

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Riprorin

The reason for the upcoming book and this ad is that Republicans and Democrats who served with him in Vietnam believe that he is "unfit for command".

Unfit for Command : Swift Boat Veterans Speak Out Against John Kerry

So is the Fearless Liar we've already had for 4 years so so couldn't be any worse trading one "Unfit for Command" for another, at least worth the change to see.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Riprorin

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
The Right stoops low to tarnish a decorate Viet Nam Vetran just to win an Elelction. First Cleveland and now Kerry. Funny most of those in the White House did all they could to stay out of that conflict. Seems a little Hypocritical to me.

"They presented this early in the campaign ( May 5 ) because they wanted the Democratic party to have a chance to pick another nominee if this derailed Kerry. A significant number of Democrats in the organization felt that was important."

"Please don't fall for the McCarthyite attacks on the spokesmen, especially O'Neil. Guilt by association is ugly, but that's the only defense Kerry has. When you hear charges that they are part of a Republican attack machine, recognize that there was nothing to be gained by the 300 members of this group, Also, the group is a 527 organization, which prohibits it from working with a political party."

The only McCarthyite attacks are coming from the Right calling Kerry a Traitor for his outspokeness against the Viet Nam war. If anybody had a right to speak out about it, it is those who risked their lives over there doing their duty.

It appears those that risked their lives are the ones doing the speaking. I would imagine there are more than a few medals in that list of 300 who are speaking out against Kerry.

 

[PELarson]

Originally posted by: Riprorin
[
When the press conference was mostly ignored (even though every one of Kerry's commanding officers up through CINCPAC [CINCPAC, deceased, represented by his son] stepped forward and attested to their signing to his lack of qualification), the group chose to write a book to get out the word. That is the reason for this book: to clarify the history and to remove the stains that Kerry painted all Vietnam Vets with, and to avoid the inevitable media filter.

Unless Admiral Zumwalt is being channeled by his son, or his son has written letters/journals from the Admiral then all the Admirals son is doing is representing himself.

The JAG investigation should be interesting.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Riprorin

There's more to this than just his reprehensible behavior after he war. Guess we'll have to wait for the book to come out to get the details.

There was nothing reprehensible about his behavior after the war. The only thing that was reprehensible was the way this war was conducted by our government.

BTW, as Kerry is wrapping himself in his service record in this campaign, don't you think that examination of that record is fair game?

The facts are there for everybody to see, He served honorably and was awarded for his bravery and his leadership. You don't see respected Vets like McCain, Kerry, Clark and Cleveland question his service, just those who are clearly partisan. This reeks of a Rove Hatchet job and is very McCarthyite. Of course I've seen those on the Far Right attack everyone of the Vets I mentioned service too (yes even McCain's)

 

[Riprorin]

Here are the names of the speakers in the ad:

Larry Thurlow, Lieutenant J.G., Bronze Star

George Elliot, Lieutenant Commander, Silver Star

Roy Hoffmann, Rear Admiral, Distinguished Service Medal, Silver Star

Bob Elder, Lieutenant, Bronze Star

Al French, Ensign, 2 Bronze Stars

Jack Chenoweth, Lieutenant J.G., Bronze Star

Vin Odell, Gunner Mate 2nd Class

Lewis Letson, Medical Officer Lieutenant Commander

Grant Hibbard, Lieutenant Commander, 2 Bronze Stars

Joe Ponder, Gunner Mate 3rd Class, Purple Heart

Shleton White, Lieutenant, 2 Bronze Stars

Bob Hildreth, Lieutenant, Purple Heart, Bronze Star

Adrian Lonsdale, Commander, Legion of Merit Bronze Star

 

[DealMonkey]

There's an interesting Salon.com (reg required, blah blah) covering the *ahem* gentlemen from SwiftVets.com:

Smear Boat Veterans for Bush
The "swift boat" veterans attacking John Kerry's war record are led by veteran right-wing operatives using the same vicious techniques they used against John McCain four years ago

May 4, 2004 | The latest conservative outfit to fire an angry broadside against John Kerry's heroic war record is Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, which today launches a campaign to brand the Democrat "unfit to serve as commander in chief." Billing itself as representing the "other 97 percent of veterans" from Kerry's Navy unit who don't support his presidential candidacy, the group insists that all presidential candidates must be "totally honest and forthcoming" about their military service.

These "swift boat vets" claim still to be furious about Kerry's 1971 Senate testimony against the war in which he spoke about atrocities in Indochina's "free fire zones." More than three decades later, facing the complicated truth about Vietnam remains difficult. But this group's political connections make clear that its agenda is to target the election of 2004.

Behind the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth are veteran corporate media consultant and Texas Republican activist Merrie Spaeth, who is listed as the group's media contact; eternal Kerry antagonist and Houston attorney John E. O'Neill, law partner of Spaeth's late husband, Tex Lezar; and retired Rear Adm. Roy Hoffman, a cigar-chomping former Vietnam commander once described as "the classic body-count guy" who "wanted hooches destroyed and people killed."

Spaeth told Salon that O'Neill first approached her last winter to discuss his "concerns about Sen. Kerry." O'Neill has been assailing Kerry since 1971, when the former Navy officer was selected for the role by Charles Colson, Richard Nixon's dirty-tricks aide. Spaeth heard O'Neill out, but told him, she says, that he "sounded like a crazed extremist" and should "button his lip" and avoid speaking with the press. But since Kerry clinched the Democratic nomination, Spaeth has changed her mind and decided to donate her public relations services on a "pro bono" basis to O'Neill's latest anti-Kerry effort. "About three weeks ago, four weeks ago," she said, the group's leaders "met in my office for about 12 hours" to prepare for their Washington debut.

Although not as well known as Karen Hughes, Spaeth is among the most experienced and best connected Republican communications executives. During the Reagan administration she served as director of the White House Office of Media Liaison, where she specialized in promoting "news" items that boosted President Reagan to TV stations around the country. While living in Washington she met and married Lezar, a Reagan Justice Department lawyer who ran for lieutenant governor of Texas in 1994 with George W. Bush, then the party's candidate for governor. (Lezar lost; Bush won.)

Through Lezar, who died of a heart attack last January, she met O'Neill, his law partner in Clements, O'Neill, Pierce, Wilson & Fulkerson, a Dallas firm. (It also includes Margaret Wilson, the former counsel to Gov. Bush who followed him to Washington, where she served for a time as a deputy counsel in the Department of Commerce.)

Spaeth's partisanship runs still deeper, as does her history of handling difficult P.R. cases for Republicans. In 1998, for example, she coached Kenneth Starr, the independent counsel, to prepare him for his testimony urging the impeachment of President Clinton before the House Judiciary Committee. She even reviewed videotapes of his previous television appearances to give him pointers about his delivery and demeanor. The man responsible for arranging her advice to Starr was another old friend of her late husband's, Theodore Olson, who was counsel to the right-wing American Spectator when it acted as a front for the dirty-tricks campaign against Clinton known as the Arkansas Project; he is now the solicitor general in the Bush Justice Department. (Olson also happens to be the godfather of Spaeth's daughter.)

In 2000, Spaeth participated in the most subterranean episode of the Republican primary contest when a shadowy group billed as "Republicans for Clean Air" produced television ads falsely attacking the environmental record of Sen. John McCain in California, New York and Ohio. While the identity of those funding the supposedly "independent" ads was carefully hidden, reporters soon learned that Republicans for Clean Air was simply Sam Wyly -- a big Bush contributor and beneficiary of Bush administration decisions in Texas -- and his brother, Charles, another Bush "Pioneer" contributor. (One of the Wyly family's private capital funds, Maverick Capital of Dallas, had been awarded a state contract to invest $90 million for the University of Texas endowment.)

When the secret emerged, spokeswoman Spaeth caught the flak for the Wylys, an experience she recalled to me as "horrible" and "awful." Her job was to assure reporters that there had been no illegal coordination between the Bush campaign and the Wyly brothers in arranging the McCain-trashing message. Not everyone believed her explanation, including the Arizona senator.

The veteran group's founder, Rear Adm. Roy Hoffmann, first gained notoriety in Vietnam as a strutting, cigar-chewing Navy captain. But it was O'Neill, by now a familiar figure on the Kerry-bashing circuit, who came to Spaeth for assistance.

Until now, Hoffmann has been best known as the commanding officer whose obsession with body counts and "scorekeeping" may have provoked the February 1969 massacre of Vietnamese civilians at Thanh Phong by a unit led by Bob Kerrey -- the Medal of Honor winner who lost a leg in Nam, became a U.S. senator from Nebraska and now sits on the 9/11 commission.

After journalist Gregory Vistica exposed the Thanh Phong massacre and the surrounding circumstances in the New York Times magazine three years ago, conservative columnist Christopher Caldwell took particular note of the cameo role played by Kerrey's C.O., who had warned his men not to return from missions without enough kills. "One of the myths due to die as a result of Vistica's article is that which holds the war could have been won sensibly and cleanly if the 'suits' back in Washington had merely left the military men to their own devices," Caldwell wrote. "In this light, one of the great merits of Vistica's article is its portrait of the Kurtz-like psychopath who commanded Kerrey's Navy task force, Capt. Roy Hoffmann."

Arguments about the war in Vietnam seem destined to continue forever. For now, however, the lingering bitterness and ambiguity of those days provide smear material against an antiwar war hero with five medals on behalf of a privileged Guardsman with a dubious duty record. The president's Texas allies -- whose animus against his Democratic challenger dates back to the Nixon era -- are now deploying the same techniques and personnel they used to attack McCain's integrity four years ago. Bush's "independent" supporters would apparently rather talk about the Vietnam quagmire than about his deadly incompetence in Iraq.

 

[Zebo]

Kerry's such a moron for even going to vietnam.....should have uped in the national guard and gone AWOL, used connections or whatever so he never had to serve with the surfs that way they could'nt find no one to talk sh1t about him. duh.. he had the connections.

And people think W's stupid?:roll: