videocardzExclusive: AMD Radeon R9 480 based on Polaris 10

[tential]

A lot of people here bashed the 1070/1080 for their pricing. It seems that a lot of people care about price.

Who cares?
People will always cry about price.
Nvidia isn't stupid, they priced the 1070 at $450 and $700 because they KNOW those prices will work. They will drop later, but they know early adopters are willing to pay a premium. On top of that, it's the high end market that drives sales.

I'm not sure your skepticism of Nvidia when it comes to business practices at all, but Nvidia knows full well those crying about prices, chances are they NEVER were buying anything anyway. How many times do midrange customers talk about purchases but never purchase? P10 at 390x isn't remotely exciting enough to get midrange customers to make a purchase. You need something that evokes some type of emotion, and that's what Nvidia does.

 

[.vodka]

Everyone got a frequency increase with the node shrink so far. If we took GCN as it is and shrunk it to 14/16nm you'd also see a frequency increase at the same power.

Denser GCN chips like Hawaii and Fiji are already good for 1.1-1.2GHz if pushing to their limits, Tahiti could go higher. 300MHz on top of that from a node shrink isn't out of the question.


Of course, since almost everything important is labeled as "new" in the architecture slides, anything could happen. P10 can and will probably punch higher than its class, compared to other similar in hardware resources 28nm GCN chips. I like it that they're reserving the higher tiers for Vega, having P10 move the performance bar higher than the actual x80 class.

 

[Glo.]

Yes, but that's not what Polaris 10 is likely to be. If AMD had a GTX 10 class part on its hand it would not brand it R9 480, it could get more money selling it as an R9 490.

If that would be the case, AMD would not be waiting for Nvidia with their releases, and would not be tuning up the core clocks to counter their offerings.

 

[YBS1]

If they are bashing the pricing, they are not the crowd its for. Its a performance card, what do they expect. lol

I'm bashing its price, that's the price range I buy in. It's not a performance card, it's an upper mid range card, standing in as a flagship until the actual performance cards arrive. Now is it a bad card? No, it's currently the fastest card available, if I was building fresh right now, that's my best option. Still doesn't make it worthy of flagship large die prices. Seriously, these cards should be $499 at most.

 

[Det0x]

Who cares?
People will always cry about price.
Nvidia isn't stupid, they priced the 1070 at $450 and $700 because they KNOW those prices will work. They will drop later, but they know early adopters are willing to pay a premium. On top of that, it's the high end market that drives sales.

I'm not sure your skepticism of Nvidia when it comes to business practices at all, but Nvidia knows full well those crying about prices, chances are they NEVER were buying anything anyway. How many times do midrange customers talk about purchases but never purchase? P10 at 390x isn't remotely exciting enough to get midrange customers to make a purchase. You need something that evokes some type of emotion, and that's what Nvidia does.

I paid 5771 Norwegian kroners for a ZOTAC "AMP! EXTREME EDITION" 980, when i upgraded to a Haswell-e (5960x) rig back in sep 2014.

At the time that was equal to 910$

I have learned my lesson... never again "enthusiast price" for only a "high end product"

* = https://www.dnb.no/bedrift/markets/...-og-renter/historiske/hovedvalutaer/2014.html

http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=38232095&postcount=277

 

[tential]

http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=38232095&postcount=277

So you prove my point. People did it before, with HIGHER prices. So why will they not do it again?

You actually proved the point I've also been stating as well. That The GTX 1080 should have been $800-1000 for the FE edition.

 

[fuccboi]

The GTX 1080 FE is already listed in eshops here in EU for 900$ (21% tax), 10 brands all are the same FE.

https://www.mironet.cz/graficke-karty/nvidia/geforce-gtx-1080+c33259/

 

[Det0x]

So you prove my point. People did it before, with HIGHER prices. So why will they not do it again?

You actually proved the point I've also been stating as well. That The GTX 1080 should have been $800-1000 for the FE edition.

Iam pretty much agreeing with you there.. There would be a market at even 1000+$ for 1080's.

But for me personally:

I have learned my lesson... never again "enthusiast price" for only a "high end product"

And the 980ti appearing from nowhere shortly after didn't make it any better

But i don't think a 1080 is worth "1000+$" anymore, and not even the "700$" (+) price they are taxing you, especially with that cooler.

So yeah, i would say the 1080 is overpriced... Like i have been saying lately, best case performance increase over a 980ti is ~25%, while the lowend is a mere 5% increase.
Although i would be willing to fork out the $$$ for a real "enthusiast product". (Vega)

Nvidia knows full well those crying about prices, chances are they NEVER were buying anything anyway. How many times do midrange customers talk about purchases but never purchase?

Which means that i don't agree with this statement

 

[tential]

Iam pretty much agreeing with you there.. There would be a market at even 1000+$ for 1080's.

But for me personally:


And the 980ti appearing from nowhere shortly after didn't make it any better

But i don't think a 1080 is worth "1000+$" anymore, and not even the "700$" (+) price they are taxing you, especially with that cooler.

So yeah, i would say the 1080 is overpriced... Like i have been saying lately, best case performance increase over a 980ti is ~25%, while the lowend is a mere 5% increase.
Although i would be willing to fork out the $$$ for a real "enthusiast product". (Vega)



Which means that i don't agree with this statement

I'm talking about midrange price point purchasers. If you bought a $900+ gpu you no longer are in midrange price points.

My whole point is there are more than enough people at the high end for these cards to sell out. Many people complaining that are in the 200-400 price bracket never would have bought the 1080 even at 500-600.
Nvidia isn't losing sales, they're still sold out.

Many people complaining won't even buy p10 if it's good price/perf.

Many midrange buyers don't upgrade that often and say they'll upgrade and never do. As long as their gpus work for current games they're happy.

 

[Headfoot]

Seems its another confirmation that Polaris isnt even going to show at Computex.

They said AIB partners can't show at Computex. That is not the same as nobody showing at Computex. It could very well mean AMD wants all the publicity attached to the release. I would expect that is precisely the meaning. Likely, AMD doesn't want to give out the information to AIB partners and risk info leaking and getting their PR event eroded by leaks and unauthorized previews

 

[William Gaatjes]

Let us assume that polaris really is that good. I can imagine, that AMD will keep it all a secret as it will make them from second best to very good.
I can imagine if polaris 11 is a "tonga" at "hawaii" number crunching capabilities, they want to make sure they have enough stock.
And if polaris 11 can do that, what will polaris 10 be capable of ?

If not, nvidia may have won this round.

 

[Arachnotronic]

If that would be the case, AMD would not be waiting for Nvidia with their releases, and would not be tuning up the core clocks to counter their offerings.

They're already up ~30% from Tonga. How much more frequency uplift do you expect? That's about the same kind of % gain NV got from going from 28nm to an optimized 16FF design.

 

[Glo.]

They're already up ~30% from Tonga. How much more frequency uplift do you expect? That's about the same kind of % gain NV got from going from 28nm to an optimized 16FF design.

Core clock uplift AND lower power consumption. It is not one or another, it is both.

It does not make sense for AMD to wait for Nvidia, then release GPUs that will be blatantly inferior to competitor, and not even the efficiency would justify it. It does not make sense.

 

[crisium]

They may not have the luxury of choosing whether or not to wait. AMD and Nvidia are with different foundries with different processes. Polaris is simply not ready by the time GP104 is.

 

[sm625]

If AMD had a GTX 10 class part on its hand it would not brand it R9 480, it could get more money selling it as an R9 490.

That's not necessarily true. Starting off a product cycle with a SKU that already contains a "9" isnt very forward thinking. But I do agree that if AMD actually had a 1070 killer in its hands, we'd already know about it. Either way, its actual model number would be irrelevant.

 

[William Gaatjes]

That's not necessarily true. Starting off a product cycle with a SKU that already contains a "9" isnt very forward thinking. But I do agree that if AMD actually had a 1070 killer in its hands, we'd already know about it. Either way, its actual model number would be irrelevant.

Maybe, if nvidia knew in advance that polaris 10 can tackle the gtx1070, nvidia might raise the clocks a little more to counteract. Now, suppose that polaris 10 tackles the gtx1070. nvidia will come with a gtx1070 variant with higher clocks. This would play in the whole perf/watt mantra AMD has been spreading around. Because higher clocks means more wattage. For now, it is good that AMD keeps all data for it self. Because even when both polaris 11 and polaris 10 cannot defeat gtx1070. As long as people do not know for sure, they have hopes and delay their purchase. With the exception of loyal fans of course.

 

[boozzer]

Indeed, another confirmation they're not showing at Computex, they are launching.

that is actually a very good take on that.

 

[railven]

Many midrange buyers don't upgrade that often and say they'll upgrade and never do. As long as their gpus work for current games they're happy.

I think this is the meat and potatoes of this, in my opinion.

If P10 doesn't move the meter much in performance, anyone who hasn't already picked up a 290/290X/390/390X are sort of the only viable buyers.

I doubt anyone owning either of those is going to upgrade IF the performance meter doesn't move much.

And those itching to buy might look at GTX 1070 if it actually meets it's expectations and some versions come out at around ~$380-400.


Anyways, like always got to see some serious numbers. If P10 is priced anywhere around $>300, and the leaked performance have any truth to them, this card is going to be hard to sell.

 

[Bacon1]

Why do people keep saying that it will have similar perf to 390 while still selling near $300?

AMD wants to lower the entry point for VR, to bring it to the masses

https://youtu.be/p010lp5uLQA?t=962

TAM = 7.5m for VR

So they want to bring 970/390 type of performance for much less.

 

[maddie]

Why do people keep saying that it will have similar perf to 390 while still selling near $300?

AMD wants to lower the entry point for VR, to bring it to the masses

https://youtu.be/p010lp5uLQA?t=962

TAM = 7.5m for VR

So they want to bring 970/390 type of performance for much less.

Easy.

Because it allows a partisan viewpoint to be pursued. To acknowledge otherwise is to have no foundation for your argument. Something quite difficult for some to admit.

 

[frozentundra123456]

Could you link me the official statement on that?

Yea, the quoted text is very confusingly worded, but I dont see anywhere in it that says AMD is launching at computex.

 

[boozzer]

Yea, the quoted text is very confusingly worded, but I dont see anywhere in it that says AMD is launching at computex.

they are both guessing, there is no right or wrong.

 

[poofyhairguy]

Why do people keep saying that it will have similar perf to 390 while still selling near $300?

Because a 390-level GPU for $230 (current 380X price) is boring. You can almost get there now if you sell the game that comes with a 390.

We all want a Fury for $300 instead.

 

[Bacon1]

Because a 390-level GPU for $230 (current 380X price) is boring. You can almost get there now if you sell the game that comes with a 390.

We all want a Fury for $300 instead.

Oh I agree, thats why I was asking why the hell people think they will release a close to 390 @ $300 again when its gone against everything Amd has stated about their price/performance with Polaris.

 

[frozentundra123456]

What has AMD stated about price/performance? Do you have an official statement? I know they have made comments about performance per watt, but I dont recall any official comments about specific price/performance gains. Personally, I think people are expecting way too much from this.