videocardz AMD Radeon R9 290X Memory Bus: 512-bit

[seitur]

From early (and unconfirmed) reports Hawaii is going to be the best GPU on the market. Smaller, more efficient and overall more powerful with heaps of RAM and bandwidth. Nobody, not even the AMD customers, is even considering that it's worth more than the reportedly inferior nVidia products. As a matter of fact, people are hoping that they'll be able to buy the inferior product for less, rather than getting excited about buying Hawaii.

Great post. It is seriously ridiculous to see QQ-ing on forums on Nvidia prices and then same people in other topics saying they do hope that Nvidia GPUs will get cheaper because AMD is releasing new GPUs.

Hehehe, it is so ridiculous to observe that. I sometimes wonder are people THAT stupid?

 

[SolMiester]

People being able to buy cheaper, what they see as a superior or more polished product are stupid?...

 

[GaiaHunter]

People being able to buy cheaper, what they see as a superior or more polished product are stupid?...

Nah, they just don't see very well...

 

[Final8ty]

The frames maybe mirrored on each GPU memory, however the display is via the primary card and the this is where the limit shows!

Yes that's where the limit shows because all the calculations that were done on the other GPU/GPUs has to be sent to the primary, the textures themselves are not sent, it would never keep up period and is not needed just like the CPU does not send Textures into Vram every frame because it does not need to, only instructions of what textures to use and where are sent..

 

[Saylick]

I don't even think most people are making that informed a decision. I think it's "mostly" pure brand recognition. We've all seen it here. People simply repeating what they've been told. I find it amazing! I'm in retail though, so I would have more interest in such things.

I'm inclined to say that you're right about how brand recognition is the leading cause, if not one of the leading causes, that contribute to nVidia sales. If we are already seeing brand loyalty to the extent that it already is in the forums (and I'm not saying brand loyalty is necessarily bad, just wanted to point it out), then I'd imagine the favor swings even more drastically to the uninformed, and it shows.

 

[Abwx]

People being able to buy cheaper, what they see as a superior or more polished product are stupid?...

At least not as insightfull as their own prefered brand...

If Nvidia set the price of its 780 below Hawai then it means
that Nvidia is aknowledging that this card of theirs is inferior
to the competition , as simple as that , but some are still not
wary of such a basic logic pushed in front of their eyes by the
very firm they deem as , well , superior whatever the numbers.

 

[Final8ty]

Great post. It is seriously ridiculous to see QQ-ing on forums on Nvidia prices and then same people in other topics saying they do hope that Nvidia GPUs will get cheaper because AMD is releasing new GPUs.

Hehehe, it is so ridiculous to observe that. I sometimes wonder are people THAT stupid?

Im seeing the same to with the only reason they are happy with AMD beating NV is that they can buy there NV card cheaper than before, whether its actually cheaper than the AMD card matters little just as long as it brought the price down.

 

[Final8ty]

Kyle_Bennett HardOCP Editor-in-Chief, 16.4 Years

Status: Kyle_Bennett is offline
AMD Sez
Next gen faster than anything NVIDIA has...

http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?p=1040220915#post1040220915

 

[Saylick]

http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1040220915&postcount=1

 

[seitur]

People being able to buy cheaper, what they see as a superior or more polished product are stupid?...

Nope. That is not this.
If they are paying price Nvidia is asking and they are refusing to use alternative cheaper product - QQ-ing about NV prices in that case is stupid.

 

[raghu78]

http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1040220915&postcount=1

I am surprised at Kyle's post. the leaked benches showed Hawaii XT trading blows with Titan. but anyway competition is always good for consumers. :thumbsup:

 

[wand3r3r]

Hmm, he's the most credible source to this point. I can't tell if it's sarcasm or not, but it must be ballpark equal or greater to claim that.

 

[3DVagabond]

http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1040220915&postcount=1

I wonder if they mean that their next gen is faster than anything nVidia has? Or, does it mean Hawaii is "next gen faster" than anything nVidia has? It's gotta be the 1st, doesn't it?

 

[3DVagabond]

Hmm, he's the most credible source to this point. I can't tell if it's sarcasm or not, but it must be ballpark equal or greater to claim that.

Seems like a classic teaser to me. Kyle's trying to build excitement. He must have an Asus sample of the 290X.

 

[crazzy.heartz]

For a fair comparison, Anandtech.com will surely include an overclocked 780 in the upcoming AMD card review. However, an oc'd version of that AMD card will not be included in subsequent nvidia card review.

 

[Final8ty]

Nope. That is not this.
If they are paying price Nvidia is asking and they are refusing to use alternative cheaper product - QQ-ing about NV prices in that case is stupid.

And funny enough post 12 in the link i posted.

 

[Erenhardt]

And funny enough post 12 in the link i posted.

Yep, preety much nails it. People cry for AMD to releasy high-end cards, so they can go and buy nvidia premiums at lower prices.
Why would AMD want to go for high-end ultra-enthusiast segment when only benefit they get is people paying less for nvidia products (nvidia having lower margins), and only losses on their side, even when they offer better performance and better price.
IMHO, they should abandon high-end and concentrate on low and mid range, because there are way less loyalists that don't care for anything more than a sticker colour on the card.

 

[seitur]

And funny enough post 12 in the link i posted.

Yeah. Spot on. Sadly this is not something that is restricted to computer hardware enthusiasts, but it standard in practically all industries / markets.

Consumers expect that companies won't take advantage of opportunities those consumers create themself or what is even more hilarious many consumers treat companies like people / pals and expect that companies will be nice to them, because they like / suppport those companies.

Sometimes I lose faith in humanity.

 

[Imouto]

They are supposed to be working with Autodesk. Hopefully they won't limit it to Firepro. Generally though they do limit support of 3D modeling and animation software to Firepro. They still need to pry their Quadro cards out of the Autodesk engineers workstations.

Both brands have to offer something for all those freelancers looking for cheap hardware out there. Nvidia sold a sick ton of 580s just because of this and made it a beast reseller. Titan isn't selling that much and won't have the second hand market the 580 has.

Market is changing here too and both AMD and Nvidia should realize that.

 

[Crap Daddy]

Hmm, he's the most credible source to this point. I can't tell if it's sarcasm or not, but it must be ballpark equal or greater to claim that.

AMD sez. Not Kyle.

Anyway, it better be since faster than competitor's last gen should be obvious otherwise you should close your business. Question is by which percentage and how much will it cost.

 

[Keysplayr]

Ready to give AMD major Kudos if they pull this off. Less than 24hours to go.

 

[blackened23]

For a fair comparison, Anandtech.com will surely include an overclocked 780 in the upcoming AMD card review. However, an oc'd version of that AMD card will not be included in subsequent nvidia card review.

So comparing an overclocked card to a stock one is a "fair" comparison. You're a funny guy.

 

[raghu78]

A very interesting insight provided by Dave Baumann of AMD

http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1785506&postcount=489

"Per 128b chunk the Pitcairn PHY is about half the size and Tahiti has 3 of them."

Hawaii = 0.5 x 4 = 2
Tahiti = 1 x 3 = 3

Looking at the memory clocks and die size Hawaii has gone for doubling the Pitcairn memory controller. Still Hawaii's 512 memory controller takes up less die area compared to Tahiti's 384 bit memory controller. So in terms of area efficiency the 512 bit Pitcairn style memory controller designed for lower speeds wins. A 512 bit memory controller running at 4500 Mhz provides the same bandwdith as a 384 bit memory controller running at 6000 Mhz.

6000 Mhz x 3 x 16 bytes (128 bits) = 288 Gb/s
4500 Mhz x 4 x 16 bytes (128 bits) = 288 Gb/s

By running the GDDR5 chips at lower voltage you cut down power . But since there are more memory chips on 512 bit we don't know how it works but since power is related to square of voltage we can assume the 512 bit config running at much lower voltage should still be less power. the Pitcairn style memory controller also needs to drive lesser current through the I/O to maintain the lower frequencies. so overall on power and die area AMD made the right choice.

Also nothing works at 100% efficiency. so a wider 512 bit memory controller at lower speeds provides more effective or actual bandwidth than a 384 bit memory controller at higher speeds even if they are clocked to provide same theoretical bandwidth.

Now comes the added PCB layers and cost of traces for the 512 bit memory controller. Thats something AMD must have worked out. Because AMD is selling Hawaii at the high end this should not be an issue. remember Nvidia sold the GTX 280 for USD 500 with a 512 bit memory controller when the competition was aggressive. So Hawaii XT at USD 600 and Hawaii Pro at USD 450 should be reasonably good margins wise for AMD.

btw Pitcairn's memory controller has no issues hitting 5.5 - 5.8 Ghz

http://www.hardocp.com/article/2013/05/15/asus_radeon_hd_7870_directcu_ii_v2_review/3#.UkF9hH_3x8E
http://www.hardocp.com/article/2012...n_hd_7870_oc_video_card_review/3#.UkF9qX_3x8E

http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/his_radeon_7870_iceq_turbo_review,23.html
http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/msi_radeon_hd_7870_hawk_review,23.html

so Hawaii XT memory controller should be good for around 5500 - 5800 mhz. thats around 352 - 371 Gb bandwidth. thats massive.

 

[DooKey]

Can't wait to see some reviews. Can't wait to see some new AMD cards in stock......money in hand waiting to spend!

 

[Smoblikat]

For a fair comparison, Anandtech.com will surely include an overclocked 780 in the upcoming AMD card review. However, an oc'd version of that AMD card will not be included in subsequent nvidia card review.

Naturally, what else would these guys do?