[Videocards][Rumor] New king coming soon - GTX 780 TI 3DMark score revealed

[Erenhardt]

Get your AMD biased crap out of here.

We got a new sheriff in town!

The 580 was occupying a previously established "high end" price point. Typically (though obviously there are exceptions) the new high end takes over the previous price point, forcing the old cards down.

For crying out loud! Just like GTX480 did with the $400 price point of 5870, bumping it up by a double of what 7970 did? 580 brought nothing in terms of perf/$. It is crazy talk. As if next $1000 nvidia flagship is ok because of titan.

 

[BrightCandle]

the prices of all these cards are obscenely high for what you actually get. Tweaktown did a 770 SLI review at 4k to compare to the 780 SLI review and the frame rates are often within a tiny margin of difference, normally much less than 20%. Some games the 770 SLI struggled at high settings (probably VRAM although could be anything) but typically your going to find the 770 SLI gets extremely close to the higher end cards but for literally half the price.

I don't see how an average gain of 25% is worth a doubling in price (770 to 780) let alone 35% being 4x the price. Even the 290X is ridiculously overpriced considering where its performance level comes in compared to the 7970. The whole darn lot ought to be £300 not >£500 as they are today. All these cards are extremely poor value compared to a pair of cards (2x 7970 or 2x680/770) that will dramatically outperform the bigger cards in literally everything except extreme cases where neither is great today (4k resolutions).

 

[YBS1]

GTX 280: $650
GTX 480: $499
GTX 580: $499
GTX 680: $499

HD4870: $300
HD5870: $379
HD6970: $369
HD7970: $559

Hmm...Who kept pushing higher? I'll be the first to admit the pricing has went absolutely bonkers on the nVidia side ever since Titan, but look at the launch price progression above charting the "modern era" cards. This is why I feel the 7970 was the start of this out of control pricing we are currently experiencing. nVidia seemed to be content with the old way of new card replacing previous card at same price point, old cards get pushed down in price. AMD's way of thinking with the 7970 seemed to be "It's faster than the old generation top end, it must be worth more!" I can't believe people buy into that logic...If that was the case we'd be paying $7K for cards by now. Sadly, it's working...Now the 290X comes out at $550 and everyone thinks it's a freakin' bargain.

 

[YBS1]

In fact, in addition to the above it makes me start to wonder if the Titan wasn't a clever marketing ploy in general. I distinctly remember wanting to get a pair of Titan's and awaiting the pricing information and performance numbers. After seeing the reviews and the insane pricing I decided "Nope, not good enough for $1000 a piece...maybe I'd pay $700 max for that." Wouldn't you know it, almost no time later the 780's come rolling down the line offering near Titan performance for the "bargain price of only $649!" Still I hold....nah, I think. Then the 3rd party variations start, bringing greater than Titan performance for $300 less.

 

[PhIlLy ChEeSe]

All these postings about this in that speculation until we actually see a valid score posted...................point is mute!

 

[Rezist]

GTX 280: $650
GTX 480: $499
GTX 580: $499
GTX 680: $499

HD4870: $300
HD5870: $379
HD6970: $369
HD7970: $559

Hmm...Who kept pushing higher? I'll be the first to admit the pricing has went absolutely bonkers on the nVidia side ever since Titan, but look at the launch price progression above charting the "modern era" cards. This is why I feel the 7970 was the start of this out of control pricing we are currently experiencing. nVidia seemed to be content with the old way of new card replacing previous card at same price point, old cards get pushed down in price. AMD's way of thinking with the 7970 seemed to be "It's faster than the old generation top end, it must be worth more!" I can't believe people buy into that logic...If that was the case we'd be paying $7K for cards by now. Sadly, it's working...Now the 290X comes out at $550 and everyone thinks it's a freakin' bargain.

Well the 680 wasn't really the successor of the 580, Titan was, but given 28nm issues with yields/volume and the relative poor performance of the 7970 you get what we have today.

 

[Jaydip]

I just wish NV offered the same hybrid xfire option like AMD, it would go nicely with my 780.

 

[OCGuy]

I just wish NV offered the same hybrid xfire option like AMD, it would go nicely with my 780.

Its probably better to keep multi-gpu as simple as possible since there seems to be so many issues. although the 780 will be cheaper in a short while which is a positive.

 

[3DVagabond]

+1 on that.Who the hell wears red glasses?Ridiculous...

Joking (And probably bad at that) aside,I would wonder if NVidia didn't have an answer to the 290x.Since the aftermarket cards aren't out (And let's face it,they are the vast majority of the sales) for either the 290x or the 780ti,we can't tell how they are going to perform.Period.Any speculation is acceptable,but trying to force it down people's throats isn't what we're here about.
On topic now,I think the 780ti will slightly best the 290x,but that's about it.I tend to believe the 3gb/2496 shaders rumors,but I don't know.Given NVidia's humongous pile of cash,I guess they could release a full gk110 part with 2880 shaders and 6gb for 650$ at very low margins,just to stop AMD from gaining any momentum whatsoever.I doubt it'll happen,but it's a possibility.Still,I wouldn't say we really know how the 290x performs until we see aftermarket cooling.That cooler they slapped on it...Nah.I wanted to throw the original PS3 out of the window due to the noise it made after a while of gaming.I don't want the same going for my PC.I'll just buy an aftermarket 290x (Probably Lightning or Toxic/Vapor-x) and make sure my case can dissipate the heat.Here's to hoping it will!

I think AMD is rope-a-doping nVidia with the reference 290X. After nVidia releases a card to compete with that we are going to see custom 290X models running 20% faster than the current reference model.

 

[3DVagabond]

GTX 280: $650
GTX 480: $499
GTX 580: $499
GTX 680: $499

HD4870: $300
HD5870: $379
HD6970: $369
HD7970: $559

Hmm...Who kept pushing higher? I'll be the first to admit the pricing has went absolutely bonkers on the nVidia side ever since Titan, but look at the launch price progression above charting the "modern era" cards. This is why I feel the 7970 was the start of this out of control pricing we are currently experiencing. nVidia seemed to be content with the old way of new card replacing previous card at same price point, old cards get pushed down in price. AMD's way of thinking with the 7970 seemed to be "It's faster than the old generation top end, it must be worth more!" I can't believe people buy into that logic...If that was the case we'd be paying $7K for cards by now. Sadly, it's working...Now the 290X comes out at $550 and everyone thinks it's a freakin' bargain.

It's pretty obvious what happened. AMD came out with better perf/$ and forced nVidia's prices down. The one time they didn't, the 7970, it backfired on them. I really think that AMD should have released the 290X @ $499 and the 290 @$399. I don't think they kicked nVidia hard enough in the wallet with the extra $50 they're charging.

 

[Abwx]

I think AMD is rope-a-doping nVidia with the reference 290X. After nVidia releases a card to compete with that we are going to see custom 290X models running 20% faster than the current reference model.

Or a 290X GE.....:biggrin:

 

[Vesku]

GTX 280: $650
GTX 480: $499
GTX 580: $499
GTX 680: $499

HD4870: $300
HD5870: $379
HD6970: $369
HD7970: $559

Hmm...Who kept pushing higher? I'll be the first to admit the pricing has went absolutely bonkers on the nVidia side ever since Titan, but look at the launch price progression above charting the "modern era" cards. This is why I feel the 7970 was the start of this out of control pricing we are currently experiencing. nVidia seemed to be content with the old way of new card replacing previous card at same price point, old cards get pushed down in price. AMD's way of thinking with the 7970 seemed to be "It's faster than the old generation top end, it must be worth more!" I can't believe people buy into that logic...If that was the case we'd be paying $7K for cards by now. Sadly, it's working...Now the 290X comes out at $550 and everyone thinks it's a freakin' bargain.

Or it can be listed like this:

GTX 280: $650
Radeon 4870: $300

Radeon 5870: $379
GTX 480: $499
Radeon 6970: $369

GTX 580 1.5GB: $499
GTX 580 3GB: $600 (~$550 when 7970 launched)
Radeon 7970 3GB: $549

 

[Will Robinson]

Originally Posted by Jaydip
I just wish NV offered the same hybrid xfire option like AMD, it would go nicely with my 780.

Its probably better to keep multi-gpu as simple as possible since there seems to be so many issues. although the 780 will be cheaper in a short while which is a positive.

The reason NVDA can't do hybrid SLi is "to keep it simple?
That doesn't seem a very ..umm..optimistic doctrine...:\

 

[BrightCandle]

They have both been increasing prices pretty rapidly over the last few generations.

Since Nvidia has said exactly nothing about the 780ti and its target audience its kind of hard to work out what price they intend for the part. If its another $1k part I really couldn't care less, I am not paying that for a GPU that results in about 66% of the performance I have which can be brought for £500. At least if 2x 680s were around the price of a 780ti there is a trade off of absolute frame rate to frame variance and the better behaviour of a single card. But even the 780 isn't that cheap today. I can't get excited about such small improvements especially considering the price of that extra performance.

But I of anything I expect this trend of price increases to continue at 20nm. Its bad for us but its getting hard to cool the GPUs and the dies are getting pretty big as is the ridiculous memory widths due to the slow pace of progress in memory bandwidth.

I want more performance but I am not going to drop $2k on a pair of 780ti's even if it makes me breakfast in bed. Nor so I think that any of the prices of these cards is reasonable considering the performance they bring. I want my £250 top end pricing back!

 

[sniffin]

I don't understand why the OP has to make a post to stir up the community about the 780ti. I mean, c'mon we knew this was going to happen and its not like the GPU will be 10-15% faster. It will edge out the 290x for more money and that is all. Its not like it's earth shattering. Its just GK110...

It's cloudfires job. No really, it is his actual job. As in hes on nvidias payroll :awe:

And before anybody says "ad hominen!!!", understand that he is on every hardware website in existence preaching the gospel of nvidia

Member callouts will not be tolerated
-ViRGE

 

[blackened23]

It's cloudfires job. No really, it is his actual job. As in hes on nvidias payroll :awe:

And before anybody says "ad hominen!!!", understand that he is on every hardware website in existence preaching the gospel of nvidia

You know, I used to think that this didn't happen. I thought it was nonsense. I thought it was all fanboy stuff. Yet, I just recently read an article where Samsung was fined - they hired students to post bad experiences with HTC phones across various internet forums, and they spent nearly a million dollars doing so.

Citation here:

http://www.theverge.com/2013/10/24/5023658/samsung-fined-340000-for-posting-negative-htc-reviews



I think more or less there are some obvious posters both AMD and nvidia that are probably doing this. Here. There's one NV poster in particular, where if you do a google search for his user name you'll find something like 46,000 results across tons of forums of him doing nothing but trashing AMD. And then, there are posters on the CPU forum here with an obvious red bias, you have to wonder what's up with that. Probably the same crap. HAS to be. The loyalism cannot be explained with any type of rationality, and two of those guys were banned from the CPU forum. (thankfully). And it doesn't stop at this forum, i've seen it at others as well.

Basically, I think this is the new thing for tech companies to do. And it's F'ed up. Hire students in asia and europe to trash a competitor on various forums. If you look some of the posting histories or google search them, it becomes all to obvious. At some point, fanboyism has certain bounds - when it exceeds that and passes fanboy boundaries, stuff like what Samsung did is probably similar to what they're doing.

No one wins with conspiracy theories. Let it be. Plus you're vastly underestimating the average forum goer. The video card wars are the equivalent of college football for nerds; we have no shortage of people who revel in picking sides and picking apart the other side, all as a form of entertainment.
-ViRGE

 

[3DVagabond]

You know, I used to think that this didn't happen. I thought it was nonsense. I thought it was all fanboy stuff. Yet, I just recently read an article where Samsung was fined - they hired students to post bad experiences with HTC phones across various internet forums, and they spent nearly a million dollars doing so.

Citation here:

http://www.theverge.com/2013/10/24/5023658/samsung-fined-340000-for-posting-negative-htc-reviews



I think more or less there are some obvious posters both AMD and nvidia that are probably doing this. Here. There's one NV poster in particular, where if you do a google search for his user name you'll find something like 46,000 results across tons of forums of him doing nothing but trashing AMD. And then, there are posters on the CPU forum here with an obvious red bias, you have to wonder what's up with that. Probably the same crap. HAS to be. The loyalism cannot be explained with any type of rationality, and two of those guys were banned from the CPU forum. (thankfully). And it doesn't stop at this forum, i've seen it at others as well.

Basically, I think this is the new thing for tech companies to do. And it's F'ed up. Hire students in asia and europe to trash a competitor on various forums. If you look some of the posting histories or google search them, it becomes all to obvious. At some point, fanboyism has certain bounds - when it exceeds that and passes fanboy boundaries, stuff like what Samsung did is probably similar to what they're doing.

You mention hiring students from Asia. Have you noticed how often user reviews on Newegg are in broken English?

 

[wand3r3r]

You know, I used to think that this didn't happen. I thought it was nonsense. I thought it was all fanboy stuff. Yet, I just recently read an article where Samsung was fined - they hired students to post bad experiences with HTC phones across various internet forums, and they spent nearly a million dollars doing so.

Citation here:

http://www.theverge.com/2013/10/24/5023658/samsung-fined-340000-for-posting-negative-htc-reviews



I think more or less there are some obvious posters both AMD and nvidia that are probably doing this. Here. There's one NV poster in particular, where if you do a google search for his user name you'll find something like 46,000 results across tons of forums of him doing nothing but trashing AMD. And then, there are posters on the CPU forum here with an obvious red bias, you have to wonder what's up with that. Probably the same crap. HAS to be. The loyalism cannot be explained with any type of rationality, and two of those guys were banned from the CPU forum. (thankfully). And it doesn't stop at this forum, i've seen it at others as well.

Basically, I think this is the new thing for tech companies to do. And it's F'ed up. Hire students in asia and europe to trash a competitor on various forums. If you look some of the posting histories or google search them, it becomes all to obvious. At some point, fanboyism has certain bounds - when it exceeds that and passes fanboy boundaries, stuff like what Samsung did is probably similar to what they're doing.

I agree. Certain posters deflect and just have the stupidest smearing possible when there is hardly anything to nitpick on then they seem to have similar themes which focus on mountains of molehills. The thing is that it goes both ways, so I suspect both may be guilty.

Perhaps this should be moved to a new thread though?

 

[Atreidin]

For me, what's worse than the obvious shills and mindless fanboys is what feels like a negative tone. All it takes is a certain kind of poster to pop in a thread and start spouting hyperbole and then the thread devolves into an incredibly depressing, negative mess. Nothing can be "pretty good" or "an impressive engineering effort"; no it has to either be perfect (which is impossible) or utter crap. Every product has a weakness, since there have to be sacrifices made for design decisions, but the strategy of late has been to take some weak point, then harp on it over and over again with hyperbole.

I'm not talking about deserved criticism and valid complaints about a product, I'm talking about a pointlessly negative tone that serves no purpose other than sowing bad feelings. Maybe the astroturfers realized that it's easier to not get caught if you attack a competitor instead of praising your employer. If you post feel-good stuff, everyone jumps all over you about astroturfing. If you use confrontational, abrasive comments combined with hyperbole to attack, you start a storm of negativity that is almost self-sustaining.

 

[railven]

Woof, add another game that runs better/smoother, on GTX 660 TI +100 Offset versus CFX 7970, WoW: MoP 1440p Max + 4xAA.

I guess you don't notice how bad something is until you see something better.

I'm really starting to lean green for my next upgrade. Going to be running a few other games (as my MMO binge is winding down) and see how this little ah heck handles em.

So far, 40FPS has felt smoother than 60FPS and as a hardcore ATI Fanboy, I'm not saying this lightly, but DAMN! AMD, Fix YO $*$#!!!

EDIT: Side note, not sure if this is how it's always been, but my card's fan ramps up higher than my preset manual setting which is nice since it keeps it nice and cool but I found that kind of weird/interesting. I set it to 50%, and noticed during WoW core clock hit 1224mhz and Fan was at 55%, but temps were <60C which made me happy/not-care.

 

[railven]

GTX 280: $650
GTX 480: $499
GTX 580: $499
GTX 680: $499

HD4870: $300
HD5870: $379
HD6970: $369
HD7970: $559

Hmm...Who kept pushing higher? I'll be the first to admit the pricing has went absolutely bonkers on the nVidia side ever since Titan, but look at the launch price progression above charting the "modern era" cards. This is why I feel the 7970 was the start of this out of control pricing we are currently experiencing. nVidia seemed to be content with the old way of new card replacing previous card at same price point, old cards get pushed down in price. AMD's way of thinking with the 7970 seemed to be "It's faster than the old generation top end, it must be worth more!" I can't believe people buy into that logic...If that was the case we'd be paying $7K for cards by now. Sadly, it's working...Now the 290X comes out at $550 and everyone thinks it's a freakin' bargain.

You think the HD 7970 was the start? Are you serious? It sold for less than a GTX 580 3GB. Why don't you add a few previous years to that little chart and see who was more than happy to run away with the price ceiling.

How much was a launch GTX 280? Why do you have 3 generations of NV versus 4 Generations of AMD? Or how about the current generation?

 

[MrK6]

GTX 280: $650
GTX 480: $499
GTX 580: $499
GTX 680: $499

HD4870: $300
HD5870: $379
HD6970: $369
HD7970: $559

Hmm...Who kept pushing higher? I'll be the first to admit the pricing has went absolutely bonkers on the nVidia side ever since Titan, but look at the launch price progression above charting the "modern era" cards. This is why I feel the 7970 was the start of this out of control pricing we are currently experiencing. nVidia seemed to be content with the old way of new card replacing previous card at same price point, old cards get pushed down in price. AMD's way of thinking with the 7970 seemed to be "It's faster than the old generation top end, it must be worth more!" I can't believe people buy into that logic...If that was the case we'd be paying $7K for cards by now. Sadly, it's working...Now the 290X comes out at $550 and everyone thinks it's a freakin' bargain.

At first I was going to guess that you simply haven't been around long enough to remember the days of the 8800GTX released for $600 or the Ultra released for $829, but you've been here since 2000 so maybe you forgot. Also, couple in inflation, and that's about $700/$960, respectively, today. So, nvidia has always been expensive, and the only time they charged $500 was when ATI/AMD was competitive; that's how the market has always worked.

It's pretty obvious what happened. AMD came out with better perf/$ and forced nVidia's prices down. The one time they didn't, the 7970, it backfired on them. I really think that AMD should have released the 290X @ $499 and the 290 @$399. I don't think they kicked nVidia hard enough in the wallet with the extra $50 they're charging.

AMD kicking nvidia in the wallet kicks themselves in the wallet, too. Hopefully someone did some research and figured out where to maximize their margins.

 

[exar333]

At first I was going to guess that you simply haven't been around long enough to remember the days of the 8800GTX released for $600 or the Ultra released for $829, but you've been here since 2000 so maybe you forgot. Also, couple in inflation, and that's about $700/$960, respectively, today. So, nvidia has always been expensive, and the only time they charged $500 was when ATI/AMD was competitive; that's how the market has always worked.

AMD kicking nvidia in the wallet kicks themselves in the wallet, too. Hopefully someone did some research and figured out where to maximize their margins.

This x100.

Keep in mind you can get a pretty much top-of-the-line gaming CPU (4770k) for <$400 today, along with a 1600P monitor for ~$1000 on a good day. Compare that with $1000+ for a good 21 CRT back in the late nineties, and closer to $1500 for that top-of-the-line CPU. That's BEFORE inflation...Then compare back in the 8800GTX days where a simple IPS 1200P monitor ran you $550+ EACH.

GPUs are comparable or somewhat more expensive these days, but everything else is a lot cheaper IMHO. You can build a whole machine with triple displays (1080P or 1200P) for <$1500 before you even start on the GPUs. Add another ~$1000, and you can get a great dual or triple GPU setup with $300-600 cards. That's $2500 total. That's about $1700 (1997) or $2100 (2005) dollars, for comparison.

 

[horza]

..