Video Card Recommendation, Please Help

[HansGroenewold]

Hello,

I would like to upgrade my PC but it's apearing that it will become costly. Friends in the know say to wait as getting one of the 64 AMD 51-FX is almost $800. the needed motherboard, new memory, etc. will probably push it towards $1500. My system isn't that old yet, listed below. I'm primarily looking for better frame rates in First Person Shooter games along with Microsoft Flight Simulator.

Again, my friends advise me that a good video card would probably be a cheaper way to go. However, my head just spins with all the cards that are available. With my system specs that I have listed, can anyone recommend a good video card to me? My motherboard has a 4XAGP slot as is and I'm not sure if that limits my choices.

I know that some of the cards on the market are old technology and are cheap. I would like to get one of the cards using the newer technology but I'm not sure if my motherboard will support it. Any ideas or input would be deeply appreciated.

Sincerely,
Hans Groenewold

Pentium 4 2.4 GHZ
768 MB DDR PC2700 RAM
Winfast A250 Ti4600 Geforce 4 video card

 

[Sylvanas]

in my opinion, id wait for the S939 boards to become mainstream (maybe december) sell your rig then and upgrade to A64 based. if your looking for something to upgrade now id buy a 9800pro (not the best but youll get much better frame rates in current/future games than you will with a Ti4600) or better yet, upgrade motherboard and pair with 9800pro. in the mean time id read some guides on overclocking, itll keep you satisfied until you reach a decision. you may be able to get that 2.4 to 2.8 with good heatsink/fan, and get 9800pro @ xt speeds. the 9800pro should be fine with a 4x slot

 

[slay9]

I think the GeForce 6800 card is a great choice. The fact that you have an AGP 4X board shouldn't cause any problems. You can probably do without a CPU/platform switch, but if you've got the cash, I'd also recommend switching to an Athlon 64 platform--but not necessarily a FX. An Athlon 64 3200+, nForce3 motherboard (MSI K8N Neo), 1GB of DDR400 (Crucial), and a GeForce 6800 (eVGA) will set you back a little under $800 at zipzoomfly.com. You can upgrade the 6800 to a 6800GT for an extra $100, but I think the non-GT has a better price/performance ratio.

The 6800 alone is about $280.

 

[moonboy403]

get at least a vanilla 6800
as for the computer......you might be able to overclock that sucker over 3ghz if you buy some new ram
that's way cheaper than buying an amd fx series although it is in fact way faster than the intel line

 

[HansGroenewold]

Hello,

I'm not exactly a PC genius but know enough to get by. Would a motherboard upgrade along with the video card be a good way to go? If so, what motherboard would be a good choice? You mention a good heat sink, cooling combination and overclocking to 2.8. Where is s good resource where I can get info on overclocking?

I'm thinking a new video card, motherboard, overclocking along with new heatsink/cooilng combo may hold me until the prices on that AMD 64 FX come down to a more reasonable level or something truly new comes out. Thanks for your help, I really appreciate it.

Sincerely,
Hans Groenewold

 

[xgi]

A rig with that much power is enough to power you for at least 3 years ahead before you need another major upgrade (or most probably a new machine).. If you need to get a graphic card that is within the mid-range section and won't need all the fancy eye candy turned on in your games.. I suggest that a Radeon 9600 Pro would be sufficient.. if not, go for the Radeon 9800Pro which also supports AGP 4X without much overkill.

Making a decision to get a new PC within this year for your current rig is unwise as you already have a powerful processor and plenty of RAM.

 

[HansGroenewold]

XGI,

I do like my eye candy and appreciate yor input. Is it better to get a 256MB card or a 128MB card?Common sense would indicate a 256MB card is better, but I hear and read conflicting information regarding that. I hear that a high end 128MB card is better than a low end 256MB card, is that true? Thanks.

Sincerely,
Hans Groenewold

 

[orangat]

Your friends are correct, your vid card is the weakest link. Its about as fast as the 9600Pro in directx8 games, so not much point upgrading to a 9600pro at all. Consider the 9800Pro or evga6800 as recommended above.

256Mb is a mere gimmick for 9600Pro cards (and probably not much point for the 9800Pro either, I think). Save your money for your upgrade in the fall/winter.

 

[karlreading]

my reccomendations:
grab a socket 754 mobo based on nf3-250
add a sprinkiling of 3000+ or better a64 with a pinch of overclock
use your current ram - a a64 dosent have a fsb in the traditional sense, and will happilly run on 2700 for now, maximising your memory investment without hurting the performance to muc, and then with the money you have saved not doing your memory, add a pny 6800GT, or a 12 pipe 6800, either of which will give u a excellent gaming rig!!!
karlos

 

[HansGroenewold]

Karlos,

Could you be more specific regarding your recommendations? I'm assuming a motherboard and processor upgrade along with a new video card is what you're suggesting. Can you give me the names of the processor and motherboard you're suggesting?

Orangat,

The upgrade under consideration will be done around Christmas time so I can go a bit further than just the video card. It just seems that with my current rig, there isn't really anything a lot more powerfull available at the moment that will give me a radical improvement in performance. At least not to justify the expense.

Thanks for your input.

Sincerely,
Hans Groenewold

 

[Robor]

My 2.4b will run @ 3.0 and my 2.4c will run at 3.2. If your RAM can handle it or if you can turn down the ratio and run a higher FSB speed I'd try some overclocking on the CPU and upgrade your video card. Get a nice card now and get a new MB and CPU later.

Oh, a warm AT forums welcome to HansGroenewold, slay9, moonboy403, xgi, & karlreading!

Edit: Also, if you're going for a "get by for now" video card I'd say either a 9800Pro 6800 vanilla. If you're going to get a "nice" video card now I'd get a 6800GT as it has 256MB of RAM and they are generally good overclockers. It all depends on how much you want to spend. The prices are pretty much...

9800Pro - $200ish
6800 vanilla - $300ish
6800GT - $400ish

 

[karlreading]

okay - heres my reccomentdation in more detalil, and half of it is tried and tested ( as in i own the mobo and chip )

motherboard - chaintech vnf3-250 - winner of anad silver award in roundup - socket 754 - nf3250 board but without all the extras - i.e built in firewall etc, but has all the good bits, such as performance, a guarnteed working pci/agp lock and is a extremely overclockable motherboard.

cpu wise - i have a 3200+ hammer, thats the older sort at 2ghz with 1meg cache, not the newcastle core 3200+ ( 2.2ghz, 512k cache )

the newcastele is slightly faster at stock speed, the extra 200mhz makes up for the less cache, but.....
my hammer 3200+ is one of the last to come off before they changed to newcastle. by this point the yields were much better and the latter hammer 3200+s overclock very well. mine overclocks to 2.4 ghz, so basically its a 3700+ ( 3700 + is 1meg cache, 2.4 ghz ). therefore i reccomend that you go for a late 1meg, 2ghz a64 3200+. ( if u can find a 3200+ in the retail channels thats not a newcastle, it will be a late core anyway by now ).
also, due to the a64s on board memory controller, your can keep your memory at 333/2700 and still overclock the balls of it without worrying about the penalty youd get if u were running memory asyncronusly like you would overclocking a p4. hgence u can keep your 2700 for now, and get 3200 later.

as for gpu, i reccomend a pny 6800gt. or,as before, a normal 6800, such as xfx 6800. the only trouble with normal 6800's is they do run out of steam above 1280*1024, i think the use off g-ddr1 bottlencks them.
karlos

 

[orangat]

Originally posted by: HansGroenewold
....
Orangat,

The upgrade under consideration will be done around Christmas time so I can go a bit further than just the video card. It just seems that with my current rig, there isn't really anything a lot more powerfull available at the moment that will give me a radical improvement in performance. At least not to justify the expense.

Thanks for your input.

Sincerely,
Hans Groenewold

Thats right. Your current setup is not bad so a M/b+cpu upgrade now is not needed unless you can spare the $$$. Get the evga6800 and upgrade to a full 6800gt/xt as per evga upgrade plan as suggested above.

 

[karlreading]

Originally posted by: orangat

Originally posted by: HansGroenewold
....
Orangat,

The upgrade under consideration will be done around Christmas time so I can go a bit further than just the video card. It just seems that with my current rig, there isn't really anything a lot more powerfull available at the moment that will give me a radical improvement in performance. At least not to justify the expense.

Thanks for your input.

Sincerely,
Hans Groenewold

Thats right. Your current setup is not bad so a M/b+cpu upgrade now is not needed unless you can spare the $$$. Get the evga6800 and upgrade to a full 6800gt/xt as per evga upgrade plan as suggested above.

i dissagree, if u look here, http://www.xbitlabs.com/articl...play/doom3-cpu_3.html

you will see how much diffrence there is on doom 3 between all those cpus. theres a 40 fps differntial across the pack, all using a 6800 ultra, and the bottom of the chart is a 3 ghz p4 ( 800 fsb, dual channel ddr, HT )

so if that cpu with a monster card is 40 fps slower on doom 3 than the same card on the top cpu of the pack, imagine what diffrence there would be with a old 533 fsb p4 on a single chgannel platform ( and u know netburst NEEDs dual channel / as much memory bandwidth it can get to perform well )

yes, i know doom 3 isnt the be all and end all, but its gonna be a popular engine in the next 3 years, and i really feel a 6800gt would be wasted in a oldskool 2.4 p4.
karlos

 

[HansGroenewold]

Hello,

There's a lot of good information being exchanged here and it is all helpful to me. I keep hearing about overclocking, is there a good resource on this web site regarding that? I don't have a clue how to go about overclocking but with the right instructions, wouldn't hesitate to try it.

Sincerely,
Hans Groenewold

 

[karlreading]

Originally posted by: HansGroenewold
Hello,

There's a lot of good information being exchanged here and it is all helpful to me. I keep hearing about overclocking, is there a good resource on this web site regarding that? I don't have a clue how to go about overclocking but with the right instructions, wouldn't hesitate to try it.

Sincerely,
Hans Groenewold

http://www.gamepc.com/labs/vie...7050CE5421E715DDDB441


follow this for a pentium 4 overclocking guide!!

karlos

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: HansGroenewold
Hello,

There's a lot of good information being exchanged here and it is all helpful to me. I keep hearing about overclocking, is there a good resource on this web site regarding that? I don't have a clue how to go about overclocking but with the right instructions, wouldn't hesitate to try it.

Sincerely,
Hans Groenewold

What MB do you now have?

For overclocking, head over to our CPU/Overclocking forum .. . hang out, read the posts there.

If your MB allows for front Side Bus adjustments, you can O/C - NOW!

You may also be able to O/C with your current RAM.

But for cheap - a 9800p will make the most difference in games . . . and your 2.4 P4 migh make it over 3Ghz. You'll be able to 'hold off' on the upgrade.

edited.

 

[RussianSensation]

6800, 6800GT or X800Pro as a 1 single most useful contribution for gaming is your best bet. If you don't want to spend more than 300-400 on an upgrade, I'd ONLY upgrade the videocard (of course assuming Gaming is a high priority for you).

There is no need to waste money on a $200 9800Pro and a $200 cpu upgrade as you would benefit much more from getting a $400 videocard instead of those 2 options (again, this is only true if you game more than do other cpu intensive tasks).

Gaming comparison between P4 2.4 + X800Pro VS. P4 3.2 + 9800xt should actually be very helpful for you:

Link

Now as you can see even with a 2.4ghz p4, your rig could become very fast (esp since x800pro/6800/6800gt are good upgrades not only from 9800pro but major upgrades from 4600)

If you still feel like other cpu tasks are becoming slow for you, then you could try overclocking the processor.

 

[RussianSensation]

Originally posted by: karlreading
i dissagree, if u look here, http://www.xbitlabs.co...l.../doom3-cpu_3.html

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you will see how much diffrence there is on doom 3 between all those cpus. theres a 40 fps differntial across the pack, all using a 6800 ultra, and the bottom of the chart is a 3 ghz p4 ( 800 fsb, dual channel ddr, HT )

so if that cpu with a monster card is 40 fps slower on doom 3 than the same card on the top cpu of the pack, imagine what diffrence there would be with a old 533 fsb p4 on a single chgannel platform ( and u know netburst NEEDs dual channel / as much memory bandwidth it can get to perform well )

yes, i know doom 3 isnt the be all and end all, but its gonna be a popular engine in the next 3 years, and i really feel a 6800gt would be wasted in a oldskool 2.4 p4.
karlos

If you are going to provide a decent link to a review, it often makes sense to read the full review before you post the link. Actually, Xbitlabs goes to show that a proper way of benchmarking doom 3 is not with a Prerecorded time Demo you just posted above but using a real game test method that incorporates min frame rate as well. Cheers

Now to me it seems P4 3.0 isn't so bad afterall? But more importantly, looking at just 1 game isnt an indication of what would be a better upgrade for him for gaming (a cpu or a videocard)

If you feel 6800GT is a total waste for a P4 2.4ghz, then it would be nice if you provided some benchmarks because what you "feel" and what is "real" are 2 different things . Please refer to my previous post for actual benchmarks.

Even if we did assume that 40FPS slower was an important number, by looking at the Recorded Demo we can see that even the slowest cpu did more than 60FPS, plenty for a single player game. Since most people with 6800 or x800 series cards will enable AA/AF and play at higher resolutions, the significance of a faster cpu is even less relevant.

I do agree with you that coupling the fastest components will produce an optimal gaming system. But for the $$$, almost nothing beats a faster videocard. (Disclaimer: Anyone out there, Please don't pair P2 233MMX and 6800Ultra)

Hans, if you are willing to part with more $$$, then in that case I stand strong behind Karlreading's recommendation for an overclcoked A64 3000/3200+ setup. Perhaps you could consider Epox 8Kdaj socket 754 mobo as well.

But if you are on a budget, just get 6800/6800GT and overclock your cpu for now.

 

[xgi]

Originally posted by: HansGroenewold
XGI,

I do like my eye candy and appreciate yor input. Is it better to get a 256MB card or a 128MB card?Common sense would indicate a 256MB card is better, but I hear and read conflicting information regarding that. I hear that a high end 128MB card is better than a low end 256MB card, is that true? Thanks.

Sincerely,
Hans Groenewold

If you prefer all the fancy graphics... go ahead and get the latest card.. but due to the limited 4x AGP port.. you will probably go best with a ATi Radeon 9800 Pro... 128MB and 256MB of VRAM is not such big issues... it depends on how much texture your game needs... games like doom require a lot of textures at high setting and some games didn't even merely fill 10% of the VRAM... But again, the AGP port factor will maybe the bottleneck of your system since it run at max 4x speed mode... but it's a good decision to go for the Radeon 9800 Pro given the specs of your current system...

 

[rogue1979]

Originally posted by: xgi

Originally posted by: HansGroenewold
XGI,

I do like my eye candy and appreciate yor input. Is it better to get a 256MB card or a 128MB card?Common sense would indicate a 256MB card is better, but I hear and read conflicting information regarding that. I hear that a high end 128MB card is better than a low end 256MB card, is that true? Thanks.

Sincerely,
Hans Groenewold

If you prefer all the fancy graphics... go ahead and get the latest card.. but due to the limited 4x AGP port.. you will probably go best with a ATi Radeon 9800 Pro... 128MB and 256MB of VRAM is not such big issues... it depends on how much texture your game needs... games like doom require a lot of textures at high setting and some games didn't even merely fill 10% of the VRAM... But again, the AGP port factor will maybe the bottleneck of your system since it run at max 4x speed mode... but it's a good decision to go for the Radeon 9800 Pro given the specs of your current system...

Excluding the newest generation of video cards, the 4X to 8X AGP thing makes little difference.

 

[xgi]

Is that so? I better get more hold, stats, and benches on AGP 4x and AGP8x... any suggestions?

 

[VIAN]

I would like to upgrade my PC but it's apearing that it will become costly. Friends in the know say to wait as getting one of the 64 AMD 51-FX is almost $800. the needed motherboard, new memory, etc. will probably push it towards $1500.

Tell your friends to get smarter and stop looking for the holy grail. First, you don't need the FX, get an Athlon64 with a price range of about 300 bucks. Make sure it utilizes socket 939 for best performance.
So it looks more like you can get a high end system for like Let me go look.

According to the Realtime engine:

Athlon64 3500 - 374, a little bit off in price, cheapest chip they have, but at this point socket 939 is a must get for the enthusiast. Socket 754 will stay as an entry level socket.

MSI Nforce3 250 Ultra - 142

Corsair PC3200 1GB Dual Channel - 120

That is a total of about 640. Hows that for the price of an FX, but just as big a punch. BTW the FX is price rediculously high just for the sake of it.


If you choose to go with the video card, then a 9800 Pro should be fine. I wouldn't go higher.

 

[VIAN]

I'm not exactly a PC genius but know enough to get by. Would a motherboard upgrade along with the video card be a good way to go? If so, what motherboard would be a good choice? You mention a good heat sink, cooling combination and overclocking to 2.8. Where is s good resource where I can get info on overclocking?

A mobo upgrade isn't really much of anything. In rarity will you ever need to upgrade just the mobo. Mostly, you will upgrade a mobo, because the CPU you want requires a new socket, or new memory speeds.

Overclocking resources:
http://forums.anandtech.com/me...208&amp;enterthread=y

I do like my eye candy and appreciate yor input. Is it better to get a 256MB card or a 128MB card?Common sense would indicate a 256MB card is better, but I hear and read conflicting information regarding that. I hear that a high end 128MB card is better than a low end 256MB card, is that true? Thanks.

I wouldn't bother with these 256MB cards right now as your system wouldn't be able to compete with those that might make better use of all that RAM. Just stick with the 128s for now.

use your current ram - a a64 dosent have a fsb in the traditional sense, and will happilly run on 2700 for now, maximising your memory investment without hurting the performance to muc, and then with the money you have saved not doing your memory, add a pny 6800GT, or a 12 pipe 6800, either of which will give u a excellent gaming rig!!!

This is a good idea.

as for gpu, i reccomend a pny 6800gt. or,as before, a normal 6800, such as xfx 6800. the only trouble with normal 6800's is they do run out of steam above 1280*1024, i think the use off g-ddr1 bottlencks them.

I wouldn't recommend PNY brand, I would recommend either BFG, Leadtek, or eVGA over PNY anyday. I wouldn't bother getting a normal 6800 as the performance will be severely lacking soon. I would stick with the 6800 GT.

 

[MidasKnight]

6800 / GT / Ultra depending on $$$'s