video card for 300 watt

[toyota]

Originally posted by: starsoccer3
ok so yh125d you are 100 percent positve that me putting a 4850 in my system will not harm it and will be good casue if so i will not wait on the 4770 i will purchase the 4850

do whatever you want but I want you to post back here when that psu starts failing. It might take 12-18 months but I promise you it will. I have killed a couple of Delta 250watt power supplies with 14 amps on the 12v using much weaker system than you have.

 

[yh125d]

Originally posted by: toyota

Originally posted by: yh125d

Now you're trying to portray Delta as a cheap, low quality manufacturer (which is plain false, they manufacture PSU's for several quality PSU companies, namely Antec)


You're saying that a good quality PSU can't even be trusted to put out 70% of its rated power reliably just to try and prove your point. Using something at notably less than its maximum capacity is now "taxing it beyond intended use"? You're grasping at straws, and not only is it extremely annoying to be contradicted for no logical reason, you're spreading misinformation. Stop. Please.




And Schmide, you came up with that number through general guesses at wattages. Heres a few reviews showing wattage used from the wall, which is usually ~20% less than the wattage the PSU is actually putting out (which is where rated wattage comes from).

203w - http://arstechnica.com/hardwar...00-series-review.ars/7
235w - http://www.legitreviews.com/article/731/17/
252w - http://www.tweaktown.com/revie...crossfire/index13.html

Those three were all with quads clocked at least 500mhz faster than OPs duo

Delta is not a cheap company but the oem power supplies they make ARE cheap compared to what they make for other companies. do you actually believe that they put the same quality components in those 300watt oem power supplies as they do in for better ones?

his psu with only 18 amps on the 12v would be over 75-80% at times while under load because even the cpu and gpu would be using 65-70% in many cases. that psu is NOT designed for that kind of load.

You are saying running a PSU at 2/3 rated power under full load conditions (which are far from 24/7 conditions) is bad and will kill your PSU, aka, nonsense

 

[starsoccer3]

oh it will take a year to kill it nice i was gonna replace it in 6 months anyway

 

[toyota]

Originally posted by: yh125d

Originally posted by: toyota

Originally posted by: yh125d

Now you're trying to portray Delta as a cheap, low quality manufacturer (which is plain false, they manufacture PSU's for several quality PSU companies, namely Antec)


You're saying that a good quality PSU can't even be trusted to put out 70% of its rated power reliably just to try and prove your point. Using something at notably less than its maximum capacity is now "taxing it beyond intended use"? You're grasping at straws, and not only is it extremely annoying to be contradicted for no logical reason, you're spreading misinformation. Stop. Please.




And Schmide, you came up with that number through general guesses at wattages. Heres a few reviews showing wattage used from the wall, which is usually ~20% less than the wattage the PSU is actually putting out (which is where rated wattage comes from).

203w - http://arstechnica.com/hardwar...00-series-review.ars/7
235w - http://www.legitreviews.com/article/731/17/
252w - http://www.tweaktown.com/revie...crossfire/index13.html

Those three were all with quads clocked at least 500mhz faster than OPs duo

Delta is not a cheap company but the oem power supplies they make ARE cheap compared to what they make for other companies. do you actually believe that they put the same quality components in those 300watt oem power supplies as they do in for better ones?

his psu with only 18 amps on the 12v would be over 75-80% at times while under load because even the cpu and gpu would be using 65-70% in many cases. that psu is NOT designed for that kind of load.

You are saying running a PSU at 2/3 rated power under full load conditions (which are far from 24/7 conditions) is bad and will kill your PSU, aka, nonsense

its 70-80% of the 12v line on an oem psu with cheap parts. you keep spouting off about wattage while not looking at what exactly is responsible for putting out that wattage. that is a cheaply made psu and is not capable of doing what a quality unit can. it will be overburdened and people burn up even better power supplies than that every day.

 

[yh125d]

Toyota, I think we're derailing too much here. There is no progress to be made. Let's pause the bickering




OP, we've all given out opinions and input, the rest is up to you.

 

[starsoccer3]

and isnt nvida better if im gonna get the 4850 shouldnt i just go for the 9800gt not EE the full one or something better from nvidia

 

[toyota]

Originally posted by: starsoccer3
oh it will take a year to kill it nice i was gonna replace it in 6 months anyway

well hopefully it wont hurt anything else in your pc if it goes out before you replace it.

 

[toyota]

Originally posted by: yh125d
Toyota, I think we're derailing too much here. There is no progress to be made. Let's pause the bickering




OP, we've all given out opinions and input, the rest is up to you.

fair enough.

 

[yh125d]

Originally posted by: starsoccer3
and isnt nvida better if im gonna get the 4850 shouldnt i just go for the 9800gt not EE the full one or something better from nvidia

4850 is usually faster than 9800GT. Some games the 9800 pulls ahead in, but its usually the 4850. I don't own a 4850 so I can't attest to this directly, but my 9800GT runs very hot on the stock single slot cooler. The XFX 4850 for $85 I showed you, with its dual slot cooler, should run cooler than a 9800gt without a dual slot cooler, and is also ~$10 cheaper

 

[Schmide]

Originally posted by: yh125d

And Schmide, you came up with that number through general guesses at wattages. Heres a few reviews showing wattage used from the wall, which is usually ~20% less than the wattage the PSU is actually putting out (which is where rated wattage comes from).

203w - http://arstechnica.com/hardwar...00-series-review.ars/7
235w - http://www.legitreviews.com/article/731/17/
252w - http://www.tweaktown.com/revie...crossfire/index13.html

Those three were all with quads clocked at least 500mhz faster than OPs duo

I'm taking the maximum power of each component. The numbers can be found at various sites. I consider xbitlabs the best, lost circuits second, anandtech third.

Now I generally agree with your numbers as I am actually providing an extreme maximum or upper bound. Something that could be neared with occt PSU test. I looked at those tests and they were taken using 3dmark06 and cod4.

I hope you would also note that the OP PSU can only handle 216w on it's 12v. I guess if you fudge their numbers and say 80% of usage is 12v and the PSU is 80% efficient. For 250w usage 64% (80% x 2) you're looking at 160w, which would be 74%.

Which would actually agree with xbitlabs gamming computer for a similar system. Their FUR mark + prime pulled 189w.

So in the end I am 5-15% high. Ehh the sum of the parts is greater than the whole?

 

[gdextreme]

I was reading some of the posts which say that its not safe to run a 4850 on a 12V line with 18A on it. Is that right cause I'm running one right now though its on a 390W PSU?

 

[starsoccer3]

im about to run one on 300W PSU so i think you will be good considering what type of processing chip you have and GB or RAM and all the other components in your pc

 

[starsoccer3]

and Schmide the article you posted says "However, the total power draw of the computer is rather modest: 189W. A 300W power supply will ensure a 50% reserve of wattage, and there is absolutely no point in purchasing anything better than a 400W PSU for this configuration." and i have a lower core 2 duo and i dont have a card reader and some of the stuff they used i dont have so i think i will be safe with that card for a few months

 

[toyota]

Originally posted by: starsoccer3
and Schmide the article you posted says "However, the total power draw of the computer is rather modest: 189W. A 300W power supply will ensure a 50% reserve of wattage, and there is absolutely no point in purchasing anything better than a 400W PSU for this configuration." and i have a lower core 2 duo and i dont have a card reader and some of the stuff they used i dont have so i think i will be safe with that card for a few months

youre missing the point that the 12V line will be heavily taxed and the most important thing is that your psu is CHEAP and made with CHEAP components. nobody is really arguing about the wattage need so much its the fact that an oem psu like that is not capable of running a system like a higher end power supply with quality components. sure it will probably run for a few months but you do risk damaging other parts if it fails. if you get a 4770 then you really dont even have to upgrade your psu.

 

[starsoccer3]

oh ok but lets say that it is capable of running to its maximum and it is not CHEAP then would it be ok?

 

[toyota]

Originally posted by: starsoccer3
oh ok but lets say that it is capable of running to its maximum and it is not CHEAP then would it be ok?

but the psu you have is cheap with cheaply made components so whats the point of your question? last year DELL actually had some issues with their 400 watt units and replaced them with 450 watt units on quad core configured pcs. some of those 400 watt units were failing when equipped with a quad core and a decent video card even configured from Dells own site.

 

[starsoccer3]

ok but lets just say it is somehow good, would it be ok??

 

[toyota]

Originally posted by: starsoccer3
ok but lets just say it is somehow good, would it be ok??

your question doesnt make sense. either your psu is high quality or its not. that 300watt oem psu is NOT high quality and is NOT made with the same type components that a high end psu is made with. cheap power supplies like that are the main reason ATI/Nvidia have such high psu recommendations. for instance a 4850 usually recommends a 450 watt unit or better because of those cheap psus. so just using common sense dont you know that a cheap oem 300 watt unit with only 18 amps on the 12v will be pushing your luck?

 

[Lonyo]

Originally posted by: toyota

Originally posted by: starsoccer3
ok but lets just say it is somehow good, would it be ok??

your question doesnt make sense. either your psu is high quality or its not. that 300watt oem psu is NOT high quality and is NOT made with the same type components that a high end psu is made with. cheap power supplies like that are the main reason ATI/Nvidia have such high psu recommendations. for instance a 4850 usually recommends a 450 watt unit or better because of those cheap psus. so just using common sense dont you know that a cheap oem 300 watt unit with only 18 amps on the 12v will be pushing your luck?

OK, you seem to indicate you like XBitlabs.

I already linked to this. but I will do so again, and highlight the relevant part.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articl.../system-wattage_6.html

You have also stated he will be pulling 70~80% which is fair, but that's worst case, high load scenario. It would likely be running more like 2/3rds from the 12v rail (such as in the 3D Mark situation), and he's also got a slower CPU which might use a bit less power.

My personal experience of an HD4850 on my PSU indicates it uses under 250w total from the wall, which means probably ~2/3rds overall capacity of a 300w PSU, and Xbitlabs indicate that 2/3rds would apply to the 12v rail as well.

Running a PSU at 2/3rds of maximum wattage, including on the 12v rail, as worst case scenario shouldn't really be cause for concern unless you are buying a $10 600w rated PSU.

 

[toyota]

Originally posted by: Lonyo

Originally posted by: toyota

Originally posted by: starsoccer3
ok but lets just say it is somehow good, would it be ok??

your question doesnt make sense. either your psu is high quality or its not. that 300watt oem psu is NOT high quality and is NOT made with the same type components that a high end psu is made with. cheap power supplies like that are the main reason ATI/Nvidia have such high psu recommendations. for instance a 4850 usually recommends a 450 watt unit or better because of those cheap psus. so just using common sense dont you know that a cheap oem 300 watt unit with only 18 amps on the 12v will be pushing your luck?

OK, you seem to indicate you like XBitlabs.

I already linked to this. but I will do so again, and highlight the relevant part.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articl.../system-wattage_6.html

You have also stated he will be pulling 70~80% which is fair, but that's worst case, high load scenario. It would likely be running more like 2/3rds from the 12v rail (such as in the 3D Mark situation), and he's also got a slower CPU which might use a bit less power.

My personal experience of an HD4850 on my PSU indicates it uses under 250w total from the wall, which means probably ~2/3rds overall capacity of a 300w PSU, and Xbitlabs indicate that 2/3rds would apply to the 12v rail as well.

Running a PSU at 2/3rds of maximum wattage, including on the 12v rail, as worst case scenario shouldn't really be cause for concern unless you are buying a $10 600w rated PSU.

what does that have to do with what I said? did you even READ what I said before you quoted it? let me restate what I just said:that 300watt oem psu is NOT high quality and is NOT made with the same type components that a high end psu is made with. cheap power supplies like that are the main reason ATI/Nvidia have such high psu recommendations. for instance a 4850 usually recommends a 450 watt unit or better because of those cheap psus. so just using common sense dont you know that a cheap oem 300 watt unit with only 18 amps on the 12v will be pushing your luck?

just in case you still dont get what I am saying its that the oem psu is NOT capable of doing what a high quality unit can because it is made for ONE reason and that is to be cheap. pushing a psu even at 65-75% with inferior components is not the same as pushing a high quality unit.

 

[starsoccer3]

i just ran the eXtreme Power Supply calculator and it says that witht he video card it will be a total of 250 watt being used

 

[toyota]

Originally posted by: starsoccer3
i just ran the eXtreme Power Supply calculator and it says that witht he video card it will be a total of 250 watt being used

I think you have trouble paying attention. we have already said PLENTY of times that wattage used will be well below 300watts.

Im probably wasting my time and I am getting fed up telling you the same thing over and over again but here goes. the first issue is that you will be at 70-80% max on what the 12v can even handle when the power supply is brand new if in fact its actually capable of even delivering its advertised amperage. next is that the psu is a cheap oem unit made with cheap parts and is not able to handle being pushed anywhere near its limit for any length of time.

please tell me you understand this. sorry if that sounded rude buts silly to keep repeating the same thing over and over.

 

[M0RPH]

Dell PSUs are not that 'cheap' or low quality. I'd be more worried if it was one of those power supplies that come with a cheap computer case.

 

[toyota]

Originally posted by: M0RPH
Dell PSUs are not that 'cheap' or low quality. I'd be more worried if it was one of those power supplies that come with a cheap computer case.

they have gotten cheap over the last 2 years especially for their entry level comps. a while back they used really good power supplies that were actually underrated. the ones they use now on the entry level comps are just whoever is the lowest bidder and its usually Delta or Hi Pro. those 300 watt jobbers with 18 12v amps may be okay for an oem comp with basic needs but they are quite inferior to a quality psu when being pushed.

 

[yh125d]

tirade - a prolonged outburst of bitter, outspoken denunciation