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Video card for 1080i Mediacenter playback?

C

cbuchach

Golden Member
I have been having issues with getting stutter free HDTV playback on my Vista Mediacenter. I purchased the Radeon 3450 which looked great for the task but I started getting weird stuttering issues with HDTV, specifically the NBC broadcasts which I believe uses more 1080i. I got mad and put my old Radeon x1900xt 512 card in the system now and the stuttering has gone away completely confirming the old card was not up to the task. But the x1900xt is not ideal for a media center with a fan that can resemble a dustbuster.

So what would be a good cheap PCI express video card that could handle 1080i content or what specific features or specs should I be looking for (ie bandwidth, memory, architecture). Also a silent or near silent card would be preferable with HDMI output.
 
That's very odd. The 3450 has much more powerful video acceleration features than an X1900 does. I have a friend running Windows 7 with a 3450 driving a 32" 1080P LCD TV (1920x1080), without stutter. He is running an E5200 at stock.

What CPU do you have? That could be the problem, if the software isn't using the hardware decode features of the card.
 
I thought too that the 3450 would have been enough. I have a Core 2 Duo 2.66 on an Asus P5W Dh board. CPU usage is well within normal limits. Pretty much all other video was fine with the 3450 except for the high res HDTV recordings through media center where it stuttered during higher motion parts of the video. I went to the x1900xt and everything worked. I know that x1900xt has more video memory and I think higher memory bandwidth which I thought may have been the problem with the 3450.
 
Originally posted by: VirtualLarry
That's very odd. The 3450 has much more powerful video acceleration features than an X1900 does. I have a friend running Windows 7 with a 3450 driving a 32" 1080P LCD TV (1920x1080), without stutter. He is running an E5200 at stock.
Click to expand...



Is that person running 1080i HDTV content? Video otherwise either to my 1920x1200 monitor or to the TV it was connected was fine.
 
To me it sounds like your 3450 isn't accelerating HD content properly. Only certain players/codecs allow hardware acceleration of HD video. What's your CPU usage like when playing HD stuff?
 
Radeon 3450 is only slightly more capable than the 780G integrated HD 3200, which has problems on demanding HD 1080 content without a mid-range or better CPU. The last few ATI driver releases have exhibited some inconsistent weirdness with some decoding scenarios, codecs that previously took advantage of hardware decoding not doing so in the next driver release, having much higher CPU utilization, and so on. There are numerous discussions about it on AMD Forums (game.amd.com).

I would give Radeon HD 4350/4550 a try, which has twice as many Stream Processors as HD 3450 (each RV710 SP is not as capable as each RV620 SP, so it doesn't translate into twice as powerful). HD 4350 and 4550 use the exact same GPU, the only difference being the 4550 has higher clocks and usually has GDDR3 instead of GDDR2, so the average 4550 might have higher temps and/or a louder cooling fan than the average 4350 (assuming it has active cooling).
 
Originally posted by: Sk8rdd00
To me it sounds like your 3450 isn't accelerating HD content properly. Only certain players/codecs allow hardware acceleration of HD video. What's your CPU usage like when playing HD stuff?
Click to expand...

CPU usage is from 10-20% really doesn't seem to be taxing the CPU much.
 
Originally posted by: Sk8rdd00
Try downloading and installing Media Player Classic - Home Cinema and make sure to use its own internal h264 filter.

http://mpc-hc.sourceforge.net/

Its one of the only players that works properly with hardware acceleration on my 4830.
Click to expand...

Well, I really am going to be only using Windows MediaCenter and don't want to mess around with other players since video playback with the x1900xt works fine and need preferably a quieter video card that can handle all HD content in this setting.
 
Originally posted by: tcsenter
Radeon 3450 is only slightly more capable than the 780G integrated HD 3200, which has problems on demanding HD 1080 content without a mid-range or better CPU. The last few ATI driver releases have exhibited some inconsistent weirdness with some decoding scenarios, codecs that previously took advantage of hardware decoding not doing so in the next driver release, having much higher CPU utilization, and so on. There are numerous discussions about it on AMD Forums (game.amd.com).

I would give Radeon HD 4350/4550 a try, which has twice as many Stream Processors as HD 3450 (each RV710 SP is not as capable as each RV620 SP, so it doesn't translate into twice as powerful). HD 4350 and 4550 use the exact same GPU, the only difference being the 4550 has higher clocks and usually has GDDR3 instead of GDDR2, so the average 4550 might have higher temps and/or a louder cooling fan than the average 4350 (assuming it has active cooling).
Click to expand...



I know that decoding is intensive, but the processor in the system is quite adequate (being a 2.66 45nm Core 2 processor with 4GB of RAM). The 3450 card that I am using only has a 64bit memory interface and my suspicion is that it is a bandwidth issue rather than decoding.
 
I would try to rule-out driver and codec, or even GPU power management/temp control weirdness before suspecting memory bandwidth. HD 3450 with 64-bit DDR2 @ 500MHz = 64 Gbits/sec bandwidth

Assuming 20% effective utilization, that's still way more than required for 1080p @ 60fps. Video decoding isn't nearly as sensitive or dependent on memory bandwidth and fill-rate performance as things like textures in 3D games, anyway.



 
Originally posted by: tcsenter
I would try to rule-out driver and codec, or even GPU power management/temp control weirdness before suspecting memory bandwidth. HD 3450 with 64-bit DDR2 @ 500MHz = 64 Gbits/sec bandwidth

Assuming 20% effective utilization, that's still way more than required for 1080p @ 60fps. Video decoding isn't nearly as sensitive or dependent on memory bandwidth and fill-rate performance as things like textures in 3D games, anyway.
Click to expand...

That's good to know about the memory bandwidth. As far as codecs go, only the microsoft provided codec will work with the 64 bit version of Windows Media Center and is supposed to be pretty solid.

When I had the card installed I did have the latest Cat's installed and did try the different video options all with no significant effect. Right now with the x1900xt I have since reinstalled and am using the default microsoft supplied driver which works fine.
 
I was Google searching "3450 nbc hdtv stuttering" and came across this thread, which describes almost my exact scenario.

The difference is that in my "control" case, I have an Acer Timeline with a 1.4ghz Core 2 Solo and Intel 4500MHD graphics chip which plays NBC 1080i smoothly. Meanwhile, my desktop with an E8400 3ghz Core 2 Duo and Asus EAH3450 Silent stutters on 1080i on NBC. I've upgraded to the latest driver to no avail. I'm using an HDHomeRun BTW.

I don't notice this at all on ANY other channels (only watching free OTA HD stuff), and it only happens with certain content on NBC, but unfortunately it is the vast majority of the time. I don't even know if other channels are using 1080i, but I watch ABC, CBS, FOX, PBS, "MYHD", all in HD, and none of them have given me problems, only NBC.

I can't complain too much as I got the card, which I still consider an absolute steal, for $15 after rebate with free shipping at NewEgg.

If anyone has the 4350 and can vouch that is plays NBC content smoothly I'd appreciate it. It is currently $22 AR with free shipping, so it would be no big deal to order it if I know it works.
 
^Maybe you should try changing or disabling the video acceleration on the card. The E8400 should be fast enough to handle the task by itself.

Have you tried playing with the AVIVO settings in the CCC? I notice there is a de-interlacing setting. I would try changing that and see if the 1080i content is affected.

Even though this is old...

cbuchach posted:
When I had the card installed I did have the latest Cat's installed and did try the different video options all with no significant effect. Right now with the x1900xt I have since reinstalled and am using the default microsoft supplied driver which works fine.
Click to expand...

If this is the case then all of the load is on the processor and not on the HD3450.
 
Originally posted by: arswihart
I was Google searching "3450 nbc hdtv stuttering" and came across this thread, which describes almost my exact scenario.

The difference is that in my "control" case, I have an Acer Timeline with a 1.4ghz Core 2 Solo and Intel 4500MHD graphics chip which plays NBC 1080i smoothly. Meanwhile, my desktop with an E8400 3ghz Core 2 Duo and Asus EAH3450 Silent stutters on 1080i on NBC. I've upgraded to the latest driver to no avail. I'm using an HDHomeRun BTW.

I don't notice this at all on ANY other channels (only watching free OTA HD stuff), and it only happens with certain content on NBC, but unfortunately it is the vast majority of the time. I don't even know if other channels are using 1080i, but I watch ABC, CBS, FOX, PBS, "MYHD", all in HD, and none of them have given me problems, only NBC.

I can't complain too much as I got the card, which I still consider an absolute steal, for $15 after rebate with free shipping at NewEgg.

If anyone has the 4350 and can vouch that is plays NBC content smoothly I'd appreciate it. It is currently $22 AR with free shipping, so it would be no big deal to order it if I know it works.
Click to expand...


Well, I'm still using the x1900xt (which works fine) but am going to be picking up a 4550 fanless in a few weeks becuase I will need HDMI and HDCP to upgrade to blu ray. I will let you know then if this fixes the issues with the NBC stuttering.
 
Originally posted by: cbuchach
Well, I'm still using the x1900xt (which works fine) but am going to be picking up a 4550 fanless in a few weeks becuase I will need HDMI and HDCP to upgrade to blu ray. I will let you know then if this fixes the issues with the NBC stuttering.
Click to expand...
Heck, you might as well go with HD 4650, perhaps the low profile ones. HD 4650 is priced nearly the same as 4550 but a LOT more capable. e.g.

ASUS Radeon HD 4650 512MB 64-bit DDR2 - $35.00 AR

POWERCOLOR Radeon HD 4650 512MB 128-bit DDR2 - $41.00 AR

POWERCOLOR Fanless Radeon HD 4650 512MB 128-bit DDR2 - $42.00 AR
 
Originally posted by: cbuchach
Originally posted by: VirtualLarry
That's very odd. The 3450 has much more powerful video acceleration features than an X1900 does. I have a friend running Windows 7 with a 3450 driving a 32" 1080P LCD TV (1920x1080), without stutter. He is running an E5200 at stock.
Click to expand...



Is that person running 1080i HDTV content? Video otherwise either to my 1920x1200 monitor or to the TV it was connected was fine.
Click to expand...

1080P MKV recordings. The Planet Earth series, which is known to be a very demanding 1080P display, especially the flock of birds scene in one of the first discs.
 
Originally posted by: cbuchach
Originally posted by: Sk8rdd00
Try downloading and installing Media Player Classic - Home Cinema and make sure to use its own internal h264 filter.

http://mpc-hc.sourceforge.net/

Its one of the only players that works properly with hardware acceleration on my 4830.
Click to expand...

Well, I really am going to be only using Windows MediaCenter and don't want to mess around with other players since video playback with the x1900xt works fine and need preferably a quieter video card that can handle all HD content in this setting.
Click to expand...

It's not really messing around. Media Player Classic - Home Cinema edition is something you should install.

It's not complicated to do. If you don't like it, you can always uninstall it. Simple as that.

http://www.cccp-project.net/download.php?type=cccp

Click that link, download and install. Now try running your video in the player it provides.


 
I vote for a codec issue somewhere along the line. It's probably not using the right GPU acceleration and going onto CPU. In my experience, I've noticed that even if it's not maxxing out CPU (say 30-40% usage) that can introduce stutter as other things come in like an AV for example and introduce a slight pause or stutter. Could also be the audio codec doing the same thing.

If you try the media player classic, at least you can confirm that it is a codec. If you get the same stuttering, then yeah it is something else and the video card would be a good place to start. If that solves the problem then MediaCenter is using a codec it shouldn't.

Having said all that, I've been VERY happy with a HD 4350 over the last few months. Getting HD via Clear QAM. It is much cooler than the 7600GT that it replaced, and it uses about 12-13w less on average. Passively cooled to boot.
 
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