VI or Emacs

[Barnaby W. Füi]

BTW, I use vim ("real" vi is a pain, but I can get by, with lots of bell ringing and/or screen flashing 😛).

 

[drag]

I just wish keyboards had a smarter esc key plscement

 

[Sunner]

Originally posted by: BingBongWongFooey
BTW, I use vim ("real" vi is a pain, but I can get by, with lots of bell ringing and/or screen flashing 😛).

A guy at work keep claiming vim sucks, vi is the only way to go.
Of course he thinks the mouse is a crappy invention too 😉

 

[drag]

Originally posted by: Sunner

Originally posted by: BingBongWongFooey
BTW, I use vim ("real" vi is a pain, but I can get by, with lots of bell ringing and/or screen flashing 😛).

A guy at work keep claiming vim sucks, vi is the only way to go.
Of course he thinks the mouse is a crappy invention too 😉

A guy at my work once expressed distaste for PCs because they choose to go with ASCII encoding instead of EBCDIC.

 

[cquark]

Originally posted by: Sunner

Originally posted by: BingBongWongFooey
BTW, I use vim ("real" vi is a pain, but I can get by, with lots of bell ringing and/or screen flashing 😛).

A guy at work keep claiming vim sucks, vi is the only way to go.
Of course he thinks the mouse is a crappy invention too 😉

I use vim in part because it lets me keep my hands on the keyboard. I find vim's visual select modes (which vi doesn't have) both easier and more powerful to use than mouse-based text selection. Plus you can use any vim command on the selection from regular expression search and replace to source code reformatting, not just cut and paste.

 

[sciencewhiz]

Originally posted by: drag
A guy at my work once expressed distaste for PCs because they choose to go with ASCII encoding instead of EBCDIC.

You too? Mine was my boss' boss, so I didn't try to argue 😉

 

[pitupepito2000]

Originally posted by: Spencer278
What about notepad?

if you ever try one of these two editors you would be shocked by what open source programs have to offer compared to their windows counterparts. :0

 

[pitupepito2000]

Originally posted by: drag
I just wish keyboards had a smarter esc key plscement

I know keyboards are one of the best examples of how old traditions and customes slows down technology. The reason why we use "QWERTY" keyboards is because when using old type writers people were typing too fast and the keys were getting stuck together, so the designers of old type writers designed the keyboards so they would slow us down while typing.

 

[Barnaby W. Füi]

Originally posted by: pitupepito2000

Originally posted by: Spencer278
What about notepad?

if you ever try one of these two editors you would be shocked by what open source programs have to offer compared to their windows counterparts. :0

Eh? Many open source programs run on windows. (emacs and vim both do)

 

[pitupepito2000]

Originally posted by: BingBongWongFooey

Originally posted by: pitupepito2000

Originally posted by: Spencer278
What about notepad?

if you ever try one of these two editors you would be shocked by what open source programs have to offer compared to their windows counterparts. :0

Eh? Many open source programs run on windows. (emacs and vim both do)

I should have been more specific, I meant programs that come with windows. For example a fresh install of windows is useless when it comes to editors since it only gives you notepad and Wordpad, and both suck pretty bad. 😉

 

[Barnaby W. Füi]

Originally posted by: pitupepito2000

Originally posted by: BingBongWongFooey

Originally posted by: pitupepito2000

Originally posted by: Spencer278
What about notepad?

if you ever try one of these two editors you would be shocked by what open source programs have to offer compared to their windows counterparts. :0

Eh? Many open source programs run on windows. (emacs and vim both do)

I should have been more specific, I meant programs that come with windows. For example a fresh install of windows is useless when it comes to editors since it only gives you notepad and Wordpad, and both suck pretty bad. 😉

A fresh install of windows is pretty useless for anything. 😉

 

[drag]

Originally posted by: pitupepito2000

Originally posted by: drag
I just wish keyboards had a smarter esc key plscement

I know keyboards are one of the best examples of how old traditions and customes slows down technology. The reason why we use "QWERTY" keyboards is because when using old type writers people were typing too fast and the keys were getting stuck together, so the designers of old type writers designed the keyboards so they would slow us down while typing.

Actually for regular spocken word that's true, but for talking to computers qwerty is usually better.

Like the placement of the []{}();":'.<>= keys is good, also look at the positioning of the commands you generally use...
ls rm cd grep awk cp vi....

that sort of thing. That's because the people that chose those commands did it while staring at their qwerty keyboards going "what should I name this?", so while using bash and stuff like that the keyboard flows. Like "tar zxfv", each keypress is in order so that you don't have to use the same finger for 2 letters in a row... well most of the time. Its nice and quick.

So that once you get use to it it's just like playing street fighter or something, commands turn into key combos more then actual typing.

 

[Barnaby W. Füi]

drag, I don't really see how qwerty makes any of the things you mentioned any easier to type than in dvorak or many other potential key arrangements.

 

[drag]

Ya, I suppose it's more of a personal taste then anything else. I like the qwerty for most things, except for the overuse of the pinky for things like ctrl, esc, ~, enter keys and so on, but that doesn't change a whole lot for the dvorak layout. Can actually get a little bit worse.

 

[Barnaby W. Füi]

I actually don't use my pinky for escape, do most people? I just reach up a little and use my ring finger. Thankfully I have long and skinny fingers, and a cool keyboard whose escape key isn't five feet away. 😛 But even on a normal keyboard, I never did/do use my pinky for escape.

 

[drag]

Originally posted by: BingBongWongFooey
I actually don't use my pinky for escape, do most people? I just reach up a little and use my ring finger. Thankfully I have long and skinny fingers, and a cool keyboard whose escape key isn't five feet away. 😛 But even on a normal keyboard, I never did/do use my pinky for escape.

Now that's what I am taking about. Look at that tab button! Look at that shift button!

Now thats some sexy stuff. (well for a keyboard.)

And it's flat.

who ever decided that keyboards should tilt up in the back should be shot, the guy that thought that flip out legs in the back of keyboards doubly so. if they should tilt up anywere they should tilt up so that the FRONT is higher, not the back. Then have a little platform for your palms you can use when resting your hands.

 

[pitupepito2000]

Originally posted by: BingBongWongFooey

Originally posted by: pitupepito2000

Originally posted by: BingBongWongFooey

Originally posted by: pitupepito2000

Originally posted by: Spencer278
What about notepad?

if you ever try one of these two editors you would be shocked by what open source programs have to offer compared to their windows counterparts. :0

Eh? Many open source programs run on windows. (emacs and vim both do)

I should have been more specific, I meant programs that come with windows. For example a fresh install of windows is useless when it comes to editors since it only gives you notepad and Wordpad, and both suck pretty bad. 😉

A fresh install of windows is pretty useless for anything. 😉

you got that right 😉

 

[pitupepito2000]

Originally posted by: drag

Originally posted by: pitupepito2000

Originally posted by: drag
I just wish keyboards had a smarter esc key plscement

I know keyboards are one of the best examples of how old traditions and customes slows down technology. The reason why we use "QWERTY" keyboards is because when using old type writers people were typing too fast and the keys were getting stuck together, so the designers of old type writers designed the keyboards so they would slow us down while typing.

Actually for regular spocken word that's true, but for talking to computers qwerty is usually better.

Like the placement of the []{}();":'.<>= keys is good, also look at the positioning of the commands you generally use...
ls rm cd grep awk cp vi....

that sort of thing. That's because the people that chose those commands did it while staring at their qwerty keyboards going "what should I name this?", so while using bash and stuff like that the keyboard flows. Like "tar zxfv", each keypress is in order so that you don't have to use the same finger for 2 letters in a row... well most of the time. Its nice and quick.

So that once you get use to it it's just like playing street fighter or something, commands turn into key combos more then actual typing.

lol, i had never heard anything like this " it it's just like playing street fighter or something, commands turn into key combos more then actual typing." I should put that in my sig 🙂

 

[drag]

Well it's true.

Think about it. I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Some people like one button, some people like two. Others like three.

The first nintendo had 8 buttons, the sega genesis had 12 or so.

My computer has 110 keys there, so why would I limit myself to the 3 or so I have on my mouse?

My roomate once snuck up behind me and watched me on the computer. She said it was scary, it was like I was "one" with the computer.

kill -9 `ps aux | grep mouse | awk '{print $2}'`

Yes, I am a computer geek. I know. Personally I beleive the future of computer interfaces isn't going to be just "gui", "voice interface", "command line" or just "3d interface". It's going to be a combination of all of the above. Some tasks just lend themselves to different interfaces. A mix and match.

Hm... voice interface.. Anybody played around with that before?

 

[Spencer278]

Originally posted by: pitupepito2000

Originally posted by: Spencer278
What about notepad?

if you ever try one of these two editors you would be shocked by what open source programs have to offer compared to their windows counterparts. :0

I've you used both but I think notepad is better then vi. At least with notepad I don't have to use google to figure out how to save.

 

[drag]

Originally posted by: Spencer278

Originally posted by: pitupepito2000

Originally posted by: Spencer278
What about notepad?

if you ever try one of these two editors you would be shocked by what open source programs have to offer compared to their windows counterparts. :0

I've you used both but I think notepad is better then vi. At least with notepad I don't have to use google to figure out how to save.

Well in my eyes just because something takes longer then 12 seconds to learn how to use isn't a detriment to it's design.

Lots of things very worthwhile take a long time to learn how to use properly.

 

[pitupepito2000]

Originally posted by: Spencer278

Originally posted by: pitupepito2000

Originally posted by: Spencer278
What about notepad?

if you ever try one of these two editors you would be shocked by what open source programs have to offer compared to their windows counterparts. :0

I've you used both but I think notepad is better then vi. At least with notepad I don't have to use google to figure out how to save.

A few months ago, I was in the same boat, I would have to go and look up how to do simple stuff in VI, but now I am seriously trying to learn it, and believe me when I tell you that it is a powerful editor. It's simple in that it uses a couple of commands to get things done, but you can combine commands together to do some really cool stuff.

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: drag

Originally posted by: BingBongWongFooey
I actually don't use my pinky for escape, do most people? I just reach up a little and use my ring finger. Thankfully I have long and skinny fingers, and a cool keyboard whose escape key isn't five feet away. 😛 But even on a normal keyboard, I never did/do use my pinky for escape.

Now that's what I am taking about. Look at that tab button! Look at that shift button!

Now thats some sexy stuff. (well for a keyboard.)

And it's flat.

who ever decided that keyboards should tilt up in the back should be shot, the guy that thought that flip out legs in the back of keyboards doubly so. if they should tilt up anywere they should tilt up so that the FRONT is higher, not the back. Then have a little platform for your palms you can use when resting your hands.

That would take me much to long to get used to. I still want a happy hacker.

And since the last time we discussed keyboards, I've stopped proping the keyboard up and have been very happy with the switch. 😀