DaveSimmons
Elite Member
Nope. The much lower capacity per disc layer made HD-DVD a poor choice. It was just cheaper to manufacture early on.
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"VHS is better than DVD?"
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Nope. The much lower capacity per disc layer made HD-DVD a poor choice. It was just cheaper to manufacture early on.
Red Squirrel
No Lifer
I have an odd nostalgia for VHS, would not necessarily want to go back to that format, but there was just something about inserting those tapes in the VCR and hearing the little motors do their work and the movie starting. I miss Jumbo Video, and going there as a family to pick a movie. But I'll be honest, I probably would not go there these days, just so much easier and convenient to get stuff through modern channels.
There was also something cool about being able to connect various things with RCA connectors and just record/copy and what not. Not to mention the idea of being able to record stuff off TV and archive it to tapes vs a PVR where it's just a magic black box mostly controlled by your cable company. That is really hard to do now. Because of ridiculous copyright laws and DRM, a huge chunk of history will be non existent. Ex: old Olympics, sports games, news segments, etc. Everything that will be archived will be crappy vertical phone videos - mostly police videos. 😛 I'm sure lot of people still find ways to archive stuff off TV (I did, for my dad) but it's harder to do for the average person.
There was also something cool about being able to connect various things with RCA connectors and just record/copy and what not. Not to mention the idea of being able to record stuff off TV and archive it to tapes vs a PVR where it's just a magic black box mostly controlled by your cable company. That is really hard to do now. Because of ridiculous copyright laws and DRM, a huge chunk of history will be non existent. Ex: old Olympics, sports games, news segments, etc. Everything that will be archived will be crappy vertical phone videos - mostly police videos. 😛 I'm sure lot of people still find ways to archive stuff off TV (I did, for my dad) but it's harder to do for the average person.
SketchMaster
Diamond Member
Kaido
Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
You know, there was a period when I got really into vinyl. A very short period. I can see the appeal, especially because it's super fun finding cool music at yard sales, Goodwill stores, etc., and having actual physical copies of the music to play, having a cool turntable setup, etc., but man...Spotify gives me 30 million songs for ten bucks a month with custom playlists, no ads, the ability to listen in my car, on my home stereo via Bluetooth, at my computer, etc., and I don't need storage space, I don't have to get up to change anything, custom radio, quality pre-made playlists, good recommendations for other artists, etc.
Eug
Lifer
Well, Blu-ray is indeed leaps and bounds better than DVD, but it's not as big of a leap as VHS-->DVD. However, the problem here is DVD is already good on mid-size TVs viewed from a distance. It often takes a close viewing distance or a giant screen to see the huge improvement that Blu-ray provides. On my 42" TV from 12 feet away, I don't notice that much difference, but on my 90" projector image from 9 feet away, the difference is night vs. day. I really dislike watching DVD on the projector setup.
Not they aren't.
No it doesn't.
HD DVD had porn first. Sony was very antagonistic towards porn initially.
You could more easily author HD DVD initially, since Sony kept the authoring tools exclusive and porn-free for a while. And printing the discs was way easier to get done on HD DVD too.
BTW, you could even author HD DVD yourself at home using a standard computer, since DVD Studio Pro on the Mac would burn HD DVD to DVD discs, and those discs played fine in HD DVD players and on Macs too.
Basically the reason why Blu-ray won was because Sony had deeper pockets than Toshiba, and paid off more studios.
Beta had the problem of being expensive with short tapes. Sony fscked themselves over in North America because of their own arrogance.
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Kaido
Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Yup. We got our first VCR in the 80's & used Blockbuster for a good 20 years for renting movies. Eventually migrated over to DVD's. Have almost entirely skipped Blurays thanks to streaming services like VUDU, Netflix, Amazon, VidAngel, Hulu, etc.
In America, LaserDisc was pretty much only used in places like school classrooms & VCD's were for people who wanted knockoff DVD's.
Ruptga
Lifer
Almost everyone in the US went from VHS to DVD; LaserDisc was something for old people that took their movies and archives too seriously, and by the time I first heard of VCD DVDs were already out and being pirated.
Eug
Lifer
Yeah, in North America laserdisc didn't get much traction. I never bought it myself mainly because it was very expensive and had the disadvantages of vinyl records but even worse. Not only were the discs huge and unwieldy, if you wanted the best quality, a disc wouldn't even hold a movie. I remember Star Wars being something like 4 sides or something stupid like that. I actually preferred watching Star Wars on VHS, even though the quality was way worse, because having to flip the disc was too damn irritating. My buddy had laserdisc, but IMO at the time it was more suited to demos than actual watching.
As for VCD, that was pretty much non-existent in North America. Well, it did exist, but mainly for Chinatown bootlegs only. In fact, most people probably had never even heard of VCD unless they were Asian.
tl;dr version:
The upgrade path in North America was VHS --> DVD --> Blu-ray. Laserdisc was niche, and VCD was non-existent.
UberNeuman
Lifer
Techmoan is an excellent Youtube channel. He comes up with so many pieces of forgotten tech, that it makes my mind spin...
Puffnstuff
Lifer
I'll take digital audio/video over analog any day of the week.
lxskllr
No Lifer
Vinyl degrades every time you play it. Assuming vinyl is better when new(and I don't concede that at all), it's the best it'll ever be. You can play a cd or digital file 1m times, and the millionth time will sound identical to the first. The record would have been turned into a scratchy serving tray by that point.
mikeymikec
Lifer
After investing in decent audio equipment to play vinyl, my brother recently admitted that when he compared like-for-like, he couldn't tell the difference. Yet when his birthday came around, he still wanted vinyl.
As much as I hated myself for buying him such a present, I bought it anyway. When I received the album in the post, it really brought home to me just how stupid it is to invest in vinyl. Giant, fragile discs that are subject to warping and careful care is required when handling and attempting to play, and must be turned over to hear the second half of the album, (not to mention that my brother has one child who is 5 years old and a newborn in a few months' time), vs.... music that I can make as many copies as I like for next to nothing in cost, and store all the albums I own on a device that's smaller than a postage stamp, with sound quality so close that I can't tell the difference even on half-decent kit.
I still only buy CDs because I want the lossless format (as well as something physical), but the first thing that happens to any new disc I get is that I rip it to mp3 with high quality settings. The CDs go into storage after that.
As much as I hated myself for buying him such a present, I bought it anyway. When I received the album in the post, it really brought home to me just how stupid it is to invest in vinyl. Giant, fragile discs that are subject to warping and careful care is required when handling and attempting to play, and must be turned over to hear the second half of the album, (not to mention that my brother has one child who is 5 years old and a newborn in a few months' time), vs.... music that I can make as many copies as I like for next to nothing in cost, and store all the albums I own on a device that's smaller than a postage stamp, with sound quality so close that I can't tell the difference even on half-decent kit.
I still only buy CDs because I want the lossless format (as well as something physical), but the first thing that happens to any new disc I get is that I rip it to mp3 with high quality settings. The CDs go into storage after that.
Oyeve
Lifer
Ugh, I really don't need to see even more HD crotch razor stubble. 1080p/60fps is bad (or is it good?) enough for me.
mikeymikec
Lifer
I think that's DVD player-specific. On mine I wish I could skip them utterly, fast forwarding is the only thing that works on mine though (don't know if you've tried scene-skipping or pressing the menu button).
Eug
Lifer
Sort of. If the player adheres properly to the DVD specs, then you can't skip what Disney doesn't want you to skip. It's really irritating.
It's the ones that don't adhere to spec (like cheap Chinese players) that allow you to do whatever you want with the discs.
That's what I do generally, but more and more indie stuff for example is unavailable now on CD. Digital format only. Or else, especially for import stuff, the discs are like $25 but the digital is $10 or whatever. Also, CD shops are becoming more and more uncommon, and big chains don't carry as much selection these days. If I really must have the CD, I'm usually buying from Amazon instead and have to wait for shipping. No more walking into a store and walking out with what I want.
I'd say now I'm 75% CD, 25% digital-only, whereas a decade ago I was 100% CD.
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poofyhairguy
Lifer
It was more than that. Sure yeah at the end Blu Rays got the better releases (Disney support was a huge late factor), but before we got there HD DVD was already dead.
I would say the biggest reason is the PS3 created a large user base. There is no use making a product without people that can buy it, and the PS3 represented a group of people who could purchase Blu Rays. I also think that the ability to have HD audio and larger disc sizes (some 1080p Blu Rays max out a dual layer disk) also contributed to Blu Ray's success. Even then it was a pyrrhic victory, as streaming option ensure that Blu Ray never gets the widespread adoption that DVD (or even VHS) did.
The older I get the more I appreciate the DVD (and the HD DVD and the Blu Ray) for being a consistent source of digital media. VHS is a pain in the ass to digitize, and services like Netflix and Hulu don't give you any permanence because as soon as they lose the rights those shows/movies that you loved are gone. There is the ability to"buy" digital movies online, but that depends on those services continuing forever, and they often lock down which ways you can access the content (no iTunes movies on my Android phone for example). The only thing permanent is what you have saved on a hard drive you take care of, and disks are often a great source for that data.
In fact my goal later this year is find a way to record things off of Netflix and Prime so that way I can take back control of their original shows that my wife has grown to love. I have had Netflix streaming from the start, but I don't want to be locked in if they go to $30+ dollars a month down the road. For the same reason if I find a song I really like on Spotify I buy the CD (that never gets opened) so I am not locked into them. They only service I don't double down on is Steam because I don't care about games as much.
Eug
Lifer
Yes, sales of vinyl have increased, but the point is they're still a drop in the bucket. When you are at almost zero sales, then any sales will be a marked improvement. So while you can buy vinyl here and there, and much more than 5 years ago, it's essentially still irrelevant in the greater scheme of things. Even now it's barely even a niche category.
And more importantly, it still has zero advantages to CD, and many, many, many disadvantages.
Eug
Lifer
That's not correct. I followed this very closely. HD DVD and Blu-ray were fighting it out with no real end in sight, but all of a sudden Warner went Blu-ray due to a big payout, that killed off HD DVD in one shot.
At the time we didn't know the amount of the payout, but since then some industry analysts have estimated the payout to be around $400 million.
Also, before that, Fox told the HD DVD group that they were all ready to go HD DVD, but then changed their minds and went Blu-ray instead. Some industry analysts say that payout from Sony was to the tune of $120 million.
It was a very interesting time, since it was a format war in the era of the internet. One of the VPs of Microsoft used to post on the video forums all the time, and obviously was a huge HD DVD supporter. Then all of a sudden out of the blue he stopped posting and moved to another department. Not too long after we found out that Warner had gone Blu-ray, because of that humungous payout.
BTW, I think this war cost Toshiba something like $1 billion, IIRC. But Sony sunk way more into it to win the war.
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