Veterans cross to be taken down ?

[GTaudiophile]

Me thinks that a new one will be erected...

And will be guarded by armed "volunteer" guards...

 

[Patranus]

Hate crime.
(Oh wait, "progressives" don't commit hate crimes)

 

[spidey07]

Here's a fun game, how long would a giant Baphomet last before someone tore it down. Knowing most religious folks, probably a week.

The ironing is delicious.

Some rabid athiest group took it. Knowing most athiests and all. You know how they are, right? Those people?

 

[highland145]

Hate crime.
(Oh wait, "progressives" don't commit hate crimes)

Since it was on private land, I don't see a problem with it being a hate crime instead of plain vandalism.


Glad I didn't start a new thread when I saw the article. Figured there was one here somewhere.

 

[highland145]

The ironing is delicious.

Some rabid athiest group took it. Knowing most athiests and all. You know how they are, right? Those people?

You mean the "We don't have a god so you can't either" crowd?

 

[Moonbeam]

Silly rabbits, everyone knows that crosses are only Constitutional when submersed in jars of urine. Then they are so very very Constitutional that it's un-Constitutional not to subsidize them with tax money.

The VFW should declare the cross to be art, like nude dancing or elephant-dung portraits of the Madonna.

One of the characteristics of great art is that it is offensive to idiots. This fact, however, has less to do with the art and more to do with the nature of fools who are easily offended by anything.

 

[spittledip]

One of the characteristics of great art is that it is offensive to idiots. This fact, however, has less to do with the art and more to do with the nature of fools who are easily offended by anything.

Seems like some people are just dying to be offended.

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

Hippie tree hugger here, about as anti-religion as possible, but this is flat out stupidity. There are actual issues to address in the country, hungry children, Katrina's clusterfuck cleanup, etc.
This should be grandfathered in and be done with it. I recognize and respect the symbol it represents, that's all need be done. Dammit, really? Going after this?? I could see getting the 10 commandments the fuck out of a government building but this is just silly.

 

[Lemon law]

In terms of the who done it and why questions, we may never know unless they are caught.

If the cross was stolen to make a political point, then IMHO, someone is making a sick and twisted political statement I do not think anyone rational would endorse.

And if the cross was stolen for its scrap metal value, we can rule out most scrap metal thieves, because unless they possess the means to melt down that amount of material, its unsellable to any legitimate buyer. Especially since it is already making the national news.

All I hope is that the perps are caught.

 

[K1052]

In terms of the who done it and why questions, we may never know unless they are caught.

If the cross was stolen to make a political point, then IMHO, someone is making a sick and twisted political statement I do not think anyone rational would endorse.

And if the cross was stolen for its scrap metal value, we can rule out most scrap metal thieves, because unless they possess the means to melt down that amount of material, its unsellable to any legitimate buyer. Especially since it is already making the national news.

All I hope is that the perps are caught.

It's a big piece of steel not a Picasso. All they have to do it torch it into a couple pieces and sell (which they probably did anyway to get it down from there).

 

[EagleKeeper]

I would doubt that scrap metal thieves would travel so far when there are just as easy pickings closer. A min 2 hr drive each way for that amount of metal does not seem cost effective

This is probably a political statement from those that wanted the cross removed and the courts slapped them down.

 

[JeffreyLebowski]

It's a big piece of steel not a Picasso. All they have to do it torch it into a couple pieces and sell (which they probably did anyway to get it down from there).

It's steel/iron, it isn't worth that much in scrap to cut down and haul off in the dead of the night.

It was taken purely because the cry babies lost their case.

 

[Munky]

That's a shame. Hope the wackjobs get caught and prosecuted.

 

[totalnoob]

Who wants to bet this is a false flag attack by a religious fundie organization to generate sympathy for their cause? It would not surprise me at all to find they did this to make groups who advocate separation of church and state look like extremists.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Who wants to bet this is a false flag attack by a religious fundie organization to generate sympathy for their cause? It would not surprise me at all to find they did this to make groups who advocate separation of church and state look like extremists.

Yep, just like that failed car bomb in NY was by an angry white guy to make Muslims look bad.

 

[kage69]

I don't have a problem with this, as I can't ignore the distinction between a grave marker and a memorial. Grave markers are the choice of the deceased, or their families. A collective religious symbol incorrectly representing those at rest is the real affront here.

If it was a Veteran's Star of David, oh my how the tune would be different from the christians.

Christians aren't the only ones who have died for this country, so please, enough with the beat to death victim complex.

 

[her209]

 

[werepossum]

One of the characteristics of great art is that it is offensive to idiots. This fact, however, has less to do with the art and more to do with the nature of fools who are easily offended by anything.

Riiight, so a crucifix in a jar of urine is "great art" and offensive only to idiots (and must be subsidized since evidently the idiots have all the money), but a crucifix as a war memorial is offensive to non-idiots? Similarly, I suppose stealing a war memorial crucifix is okay and a public service, whereas stealing a crucifix in a jar of urine would not doubt be grand theft in Moonieworld.

Only an invertebrate could go through those contortions, Moonie. I encourage you to develop principles and stand by them no matter which political persuasion violates them. As it stands, you aren't highly spiritual, you're just high.

 

[EagleKeeper]

I don't have a problem with this, as I can't ignore the distinction between a grave marker and a memorial. Grave markers are the choice of the deceased, or their families. A collective religious symbol incorrectly representing those at rest is the real affront here.

If it was a Veteran's Star of David, oh my how the tune would be different from the christians.

Christians aren't the only ones who have died for this country, so please, enough with the beat to death victim complex.

The cross as a marker does not have to be a Christian symbol.

It is those that want to make an issue of a marker that is the problem.

This was a symbol of respect to those that died for the country. And those that choose to desecrate it are not trying to understand that these men gave their all so some idiot could bitch.

 

[WHAMPOM]

In terms of the who done it and why questions, we may never know unless they are caught.

If the cross was stolen to make a political point, then IMHO, someone is making a sick and twisted political statement I do not think anyone rational would endorse.

And if the cross was stolen for its scrap metal value, we can rule out most scrap metal thieves, because unless they possess the means to melt down that amount of material, its unsellable to any legitimate buyer. Especially since it is already making the national news.

All I hope is that the perps are caught.

Melt it down?? It was a hollow metal sculpture, probably already cut into the highest money bringing pieces and sold to a scrap yard with the proceeds buying the beer.

 

[Moonbeam]

werepossum: Riiight, so a crucifix in a jar of urine is "great art" and offensive only to idiots (and must be subsidized since evidently the idiots have all the money), but a crucifix as a war memorial is offensive to non-idiots?

M: That is what you heard and not what I said. I made no claims that anything was great art, only that a fool like you is easily offended by anything, great art or not.

w: Similarly, I suppose stealing a war memorial crucifix is okay and a public service, whereas stealing a crucifix in a jar of urine would not doubt be grand theft in Moonieworld.

M: I have no idea why you can't think straight. Stealing is stealing.

w: Only an invertebrate could go through those contortions, Moonie.

M: Ah but those controtions were provided by nobody else but you.

w: I encourage you to develop principles and stand by them no matter which political persuasion violates them.

M: Thank you for your unneeded encouragement.

w: As it stands, you aren't highly spiritual, you're just high.

M: And yet you are the one who hallucinates.

 

[Red Dawn]

The ironing is delicious.

Some rabid athiest group took it. Knowing most athiests and all. You know how they are, right? Those people?

If you had any clue you'd know most Atheists couldn't give a flying fuck about it but then you've never had a clue in your pathetic little life, just what you've been spoon fed.

 

[Thump553]

I'll place my bet on the drunk kids vandalizing with no real political agenda category. Happens all the time (mostly to schools), this is just a more visible target.

 

[EagleKeeper]

I'll place my bet on the drunk kids vandalizing with no real political agenda category. Happens all the time (mostly to schools), this is just a more visible target.

This is not a readily visible target.

In the middle of the desert; 70 miles from the nearest city - 20 miles from the nearest highway.

Look up the location on Google Maps

 

[kage69]

The cross as a marker does not have to be a Christian symbol.

The cross is the de facto symbol of Christianity, like it or not. What an individual's own perception on it's additional meanings are is irrelevant. If this marker was the crescent moon of Islam you know damn well not a single christian would buy that it really stands for something else.

It is those that want to make an issue of a marker that is the problem.

While I hardly consider this an important, pressing issue, the incorrect representation of non christian dead is a point of order, and to me appears to more of an affront than separation of church and state advocates getting their panties in a bunch. But then that's probably because I care more about religious freedom of other Americans being respected than I do having my own ethos advertised. The real problem here is people who decide to take the law into their own hands and commit a crime like the theft of the cross. Who knows, maybe it will show up as an anonymous donation to a church, where it can installed on private property as a proper commemoration of christian veterans.

This was a symbol of respect to those that died for the country.

That may have been the intent, but by using a religious symbol it has the opposite effect for those who don't share that religion. The nationalistic, non religious explanation simply wouldn't fly if the marker were something non-christian. Trying to insinuate that a cross isn't religious is ridiculous. If someone were to erect a memorial based around a swastika, but with a disclaimer that it doesn't promote Nazism, you'd call shens in an instant (as well you should!)

And those that choose to desecrate it are not trying to understand that these men gave their all so some idiot could bitch.

I've already commented on that crime, and won't derail with details on how WWI wasn't about preserving American liberties, but will say that if this area in question wasn't government land then we wouldn't be having this debate.