Very interested to hear folks thoughts on the following

glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
25,383
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Did you get a chance to check it out?

Yes, it's the same progressive pseudo-science crapola, basic complaints about how the rich buy elections, blah blah. It doesn't give any actionable recommendations about what a workable and better alternative would be. Churchill's admonition that "democracy is the worst form of government except all those other forms that have been tried from time to time" is still very much in play. Just because your side or viewpoint didn't win one particular election and thus get to unilaterally impose your will on the rest of the population, that doesn't mean the U.S. is a "totalitarian" state.
 

lotus503

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2005
6,502
1
76
Yes, it's the same progressive pseudo-science crapola, basic complaints about how the rich buy elections, blah blah. It doesn't give any actionable recommendations about what a workable and better alternative would be. Churchill's admonition that "democracy is the worst form of government except all those other forms that have been tried from time to time" is still very much in play. Just because your side or viewpoint didn't win one particular election and thus get to unilaterally impose your will on the rest of the population, that doesn't mean the U.S. is a "totalitarian" state.
What specifically in the write up do you disagree with? I didn't see it as an ideological piece in as much as a reflection on current state of affairs. I did share your opinion regarding no actionable recommendations, however I don't think that's what Wolin set out to provide, rather holding up a mirror.

Frankly I don't really have a side, ive ditched the rigid ideological dogma a long time ago.
 

glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
25,383
1,013
126
What specifically in the write up do you disagree with? I didn't see it as an ideological piece in as much as a reflection on current state of affairs. I did share your opinion regarding no actionable recommendations, however I don't think that's what Wolin set out to provide, rather holding up a mirror.

Frankly I don't really have a side, ive ditched the rigid ideological dogma a long time ago.


Several passages jump out as disagreeable.

“Unlike the Nazis, who made life uncertain for the wealthy and privileged while providing social programs for the working class and poor, inverted totalitarianism exploits the poor, reducing or weakening health programs and social services, regimenting mass education for an insecure workforce threatened by the importation of low-wage workers,” Wolin writes. “Employment in a high-tech, volatile, and globalized economy is normally as precarious as during an old-fashioned depression. The result is that citizenship, or what remains of it, is practiced amidst a continuing state of worry. Hobbeshad it right: when citizens are insecure and at the same time driven by competitive aspirations, they yearn for political stability rather than civic engagement, protection rather than political involvement.”

So if the social welfare net gets reduced that's "exploitation." And "totalitarianism" is when workers are not being shielded from competition.

Inverted totalitarianism also “perpetuates politics all the time,” Wolin said when we spoke, “but a politics that is not political.” The endless and extravagant election cycles, he said, are an example of politics without politics.


This paragraph is meaningless bullshit. No one is tying people to a chair and forcing them to watch political analysis.

And so on. I could cite many more things from the article but those two give a sense of why I think the entire thing is crap. The entire article is just a series of pet peeves being expressed by an older person who might as well be saying "keep off my lawn." It's generic enough to not be objectionable sounding on its face but doesn't hold up to any significant scrutiny, just stuff that's intended to reinforce the misgivings of a reader about how politics is sometimes messy and doesn't result in the "proper" choice.
 

lotus503

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2005
6,502
1
76
Several passages jump out as disagreeable.

“Unlike the Nazis, who made life uncertain for the wealthy and privileged while providing social programs for the working class and poor, inverted totalitarianism exploits the poor, reducing or weakening health programs and social services, regimenting mass education for an insecure workforce threatened by the importation of low-wage workers,” Wolin writes. “Employment in a high-tech, volatile, and globalized economy is normally as precarious as during an old-fashioned depression. The result is that citizenship, or what remains of it, is practiced amidst a continuing state of worry. Hobbeshad it right: when citizens are insecure and at the same time driven by competitive aspirations, they yearn for political stability rather than civic engagement, protection rather than political involvement.”

So if the social welfare net gets reduced that's "exploitation." And "totalitarianism" is when workers are not being shielded from competition. I didn't read it as reducing social welfare is exploitation, rather in context of the entirely of the passage. Health care for example has eroded as a byproduct of cost for example. You have folks on medicare that cant afford medication for example and the purveyors of that system wont negotiate that cost at the benefit of corporations and their lobbyists. "regimenting mass education for an insecure workforce threatened by the importation of low-wage workers" I think lays out fairly well what he meant in the context of
competition.

Inverted totalitarianism also “perpetuates politics all the time,” Wolin said when we spoke, “but a politics that is not political.” The endless and extravagant election cycles, he said, are an example of politics without politics.


This paragraph is meaningless bullshit. No one is tying people to a chair and forcing them to watch political analysis. You cant use modern technology without being inundated with it either. I think we as a society have less free will than we think https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/is-free-will-an-illusion/

And so on. I could cite many more things from the article but those two give a sense of why I think the entire thing is crap. The entire article is just a series of pet peeves being expressed by an older person who might as well be saying "keep off my lawn." It's generic enough to not be objectionable sounding on its face but doesn't hold up to any significant scrutiny, just stuff that's intended to reinforce the misgivings of a reader about how politics is sometimes messy and doesn't result in the "proper" choice.

I appreciate your feedback responses in bold
 

shady28

Platinum Member
Apr 11, 2004
2,520
397
126
Interesting article though definitely from a lefty.

Probably a right-side equivalent argument is from Ann Coulter and her argument about the UniParty (that DNC / RNC at their core are really the same).

Ann Coulter vs Bill Maher

Notice how Bill can't speak to policies, he just focus' on clickbait bullshit. I think Coulter kicked his ass here.