very good read on why trump won. not liberal not conservative

[ivwshane]

At least Trump will try. We've already seen your candidate fail to make any changes in 30 years. So I'll take the guy at least willing to give it a go.

Lol another example of a clueless voter.

 

[Eug]

The article was a bit amusing, but ultimately nothing new. Or maybe it wasn't new to me because I grew up in a city of maybe 175000 in the middle of unicultural and farm country, and moved away because I didn't like it there... like most other people I knew who made it out of high school with decent grades.

Kind of a tangent: This may seem stupid, but this one very odd experience from a long time ago has stood out in my memory. I had gone back there one summer as a late teen after my first year of university. I was walking down the street and heard two teen girls behind me making fun of my black socks with leather shoes. I was like WTF but just continued walking. Then it dawned on me as I looked around that just about every other teenage male around me was wearing white tube socks with sneakers.

Yes, black socks and leather shoes were enough to elicit snide remarks, just because they were different.

 

[hardhat]

A lot of people seem to have quite a few of the misconceptions that were talked about in the cracked article. People don't have a good understanding of what rural life is like, what people in rural communities value, and most importantly why Trump was elected by this group. I voted for HRC, but most of my family didn't. And the reasons are fairly obvious, even, if you don't agree with them.

1. Rural communities are primarily republican by tradition. The republican party has supported farmers on national and local levels, and supports states and small towns having more control over their government instead of federal bureaucracies. This matches the values of people in rural communities, who believe in self reliance and the importance of community and family support..

2. Small towns view their self reliance as a point of integrity and look down on many of the groups who seem to be looking for handouts or special privileges. At the same time, they have lost many of their manufacturing jobs to either outsourcing/automation or industry consolidation and horizontal integration. Most of the people in rural communities do not have any problem with people of another race or religion living in the USA, but they do resent special treatment and long term welfare, and lawbreakers who will not pay their fair share (illegal immigrants) when they have put up with so many losses in their own communities.

3. Most people in rural communities are not stupid. They view both Clinton and Trump as corrupt politicians who will not deliver on even half of their promises. The reason they chose Trump is because he has spoken about issues like free trade agreements and illegal immigration that impact their lives and said he will address them. Furthermore, Trump has not been a politician, and these disenfranchised voters have continually been seeking someone-anyone-to address the serious corruption of our government. Trump's message in each area that he visited was tailored to address their ongoing problems (tariff of 30% on every car Ford produces in Mexico and imports/10 foot wall to keep illegals out/return to family values and keeping the government out of religion/etc.), while Hillary's was one of supporting the socially oppressed and dealing with international issues and long term problems like global warming and the international economy.

The reason Trump won is because Hillary appeared apathetic to the real results of corporatism, automation, and international trade, and the harm they have caused in small communities.
In this thread, many people have posted misnomers about these very issues. Someone who has had their job displaced cannot easily choose to pursue a new career in a different field in many cases. They would have to return to school, which is ridiculously costly, to get the education they need, and then they may have to uproot their entire family to find a job somewhere else. This often means moving away from extended family, as parents, grandparents, cousins, and others often live in the same small town. These are real costs and risks, and democrats haven't offered any solutions. Extending unemployment means these people may survive but have to take a government handout.

Farmers are supported by 'subsidies' in many cases, but the issue is not anywhere near that cut and dry. The USA needs fresh produce, and even if the government did not offer subsidies produce shipped from other countries would in many cases have degraded by the time it hits store shelves. Subsidies also allow greater transparency and accountability through FDA tracking. And subsidies and crop insurance ensure that the USA is not beholden to another nation for something as absolutely necessary as a stable food supply. If there were no subsidies then the prices of fresh goods in grocery stores would go up substantially, and many small farmers would be forced out of business when there were bad crop yields.

The perception of moral superiority in small towns is a result of the news cycle. We hear about crime and protests in bigger cities all the time, while it is very rare in smaller communities because everyone is forced to get along and work together. And the crime is on a scale that seems absurd for a town literally 1/1000th the size of a city, in some cases.

The debt is also a very important issue to these people because they in many cases view bankruptcy as a sign of failure. If Hillary had spent more time hammering Trump on his failures and questionable business practices like Obama did to Romney, she could have made headway against him. But she didn't.

Hillary was unquestionably the better candidate, but she was taking the country down a path that would lead to more suffering for these voters, and not offering them a path to a better life. At least Trump spoke to these people and addressed their suffering.

 

[JSt0rm]

I think trump lied to desperate people. Look at the stock market. I thought it would tank. It didn't. I think trump is in the system and is going to gut the safety nets. I mean he is going to repeal Obamacare care first thing. It's like ok. What are you replacing it with?

People will be denied coverage again and end up dead. That's the reality we are going back too. But the boomers have all mostly moved thru the donut now so we no longer need healthcare.

 

[ivwshane]

Did he really "acknowledge" them...or did he take advantage of the most desperate of people, telling them a blatant lie to get their votes?

Well I know that every trump supporter I've talked to certainly seemed to think he was going to keep his promises. The con man certainly found his marks.

 

[sxr7171]

Most rural communities are not self-sufficient. They are propped up by subsidies paid for by taxes paid by urbanites. From farm subsidies to rural health subsidies to rural electric subsidies to highway subsidies, school subsidies, the money flows from the urban centers to rural communities. There is reciprocity in that with the subsidies come stable food prices and a stable food supply. The rural economy in this country is fundamentally socialist.

If you ask then they'll say they produce while the cities eat up all their production. They do really think this.

 

[sxr7171]

A ton of stuff, mostly things that need a bachelor's degree or higher and involves US based companies for operations active in on US soil.

Can we also blame some of the issues with job finding on the whole anti-birth control/abortion thing in the rural south going? I happen to have some in-laws in the deep south (deeeeeeeeep south) and its insane to me how early they start having kids and how big their families are. Young men and women don't even have a chance to start thinking about making a move because they already have 2 kids and a 3rd on the way whilst living with mom and pop. Kids are real drag on finances, yet everyone seems to want to have them. I don't know why!

Each kid means more govt $$$. That's the system.

 

[sxr7171]

Blatant lies, or insidious lies... kinda depends on a politician's target audience. What is the alternative for this group? Voting for a party that just mostly ignores them? There is irony in this demographic voting for a billionaire instead of just millionaire career politicians, but I'm not really seeing why they would vote otherwise. I'm not endorsing either, just curious about the why and choices presented.

I can tell you. "We love him because he's a billionaire and he doesn't have to do this"

Actual quote from someone.

"Can you imagine he's a billionaire and he's coming to save us?"

Okay the "save us" part is embellishment.

They think he's noble because because he can live the rest of his life in luxury and not need public office to make his millions. What they forget about is ego. A guy that rich has everything he wants. What do you get a guy who has everything? Something to boost his ego. What better way than to run for and win the highest office in the world even?

 

[sxr7171]

The article was a bit amusing, but ultimately nothing new. Or maybe it wasn't new to me because I grew up in a city of maybe 175000 in the middle of unicultural and farm country, and moved away because I didn't like it there... like most other people I knew who made it out of high school with decent grades.

Kind of a tangent: This may seem stupid, but this one very odd experience from a long time ago has stood out in my memory. I had gone back there one summer as a late teen after my first year of university. I was walking down the street and heard two teen girls behind me making fun of my black socks with leather shoes. I was like WTF but just continued walking. Then it dawned on me as I looked around that just about every other teenage male around me was wearing white tube socks with sneakers.

Yes, black socks and leather shoes were enough to elicit snide remarks, just because they were different.

Funny. I got similar comments for the same thing. It's funny how they zoom in on your shoes like that. I switched to sneakers. When in Rome I guess.

They really do want everyone to conform on everything. They don't care about your race or ethnicity but just that you conform. You better support whatever sports team they do also.

 

[mikeymikec]

It's an interesting read, and IMO it can be applied to Brexit just as well (very similar voting patterns), but what I don't understand is how Trump could be accepted as the figurehead of trying to fix what's wrong with the cities, since he exhibits a lot of what would be considered to be wrong with the cities, according to that article?

But then, I suppose if you consider yourself to be drowning, are you going to be terribly picky about whatever piece of floating debris comes by that could save your life?

 

[SearchMaster]

You have a college degree. If the income is as you described, your county probably voted blue. Such places are not uncommon just 1 or 2 hours outside of major cities. People with money and degrees go to these areas basically avoid the rat race and ride it out but can still enjoy the big city from time to time. I'm talking about people who haven't been to a big city in 2-5 years, maybe more.

LOL not even close. I know Trump was well over 60%, it might have been over 70%, in my county. It wasn't much different the last two elections.

The "very rural" population is shrinking, but areas like mine where people can either telecommute or create a small business serving the local community are not. I'm about 60 miles from a big city but really have no reason to go there any more. I'm not into the arts scene, too old for concerts these days, so other than an occasional business meeting or flight, there's just no appeal. My area has about all the shopping I need, anything else is a quick Amazon order.

While neither of the major party candidates got my vote this year, it was people like me and my neighbors who put Trump in the White House, for better or worse.

 

[Thump553]

Pretty much a rehash of cliched ideas that have been spouted since the 1880s and had a lot more relevance then. Ironic how the author glossed over the meth, heroin and other drug use plaguing the rural areas today.

Face it, the cities are the economic engines of our society. Unfortunately the way nearly all are set up now they are hollowed out because the taxbase is in the suburbs as are many corporate jobs (in office parks) but the basic principal remains. Absent a city, major airport or the like for are basically going to have subsidence living in the USA.

The main reason Trump won is the vast majority of GOP voters held their noses and came home.

We will repeat the same pattern since roughly 1980-eight years of GOP rule resulting in economic fiasco (or at least a totally out of wack budget) followed by a Dem interlude where the Dems will work to solve the problems caused by the GOP while doing precious little to implement their own agenda. Overall upper level tax rates will be cut, regulations cut and indirect subsidies to corporations increased. The oligopoly that USA is becoming-well that trend will accelerate.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Pretty much a rehash of cliched ideas that have been spouted since the 1880s and had a lot more relevance then. Ironic how the author glossed over the meth, heroin and other drug use plaguing the rural areas today.

Face it, the cities are the economic engines of our society. Unfortunately the way nearly all are set up now they are hollowed out because the taxbase is in the suburbs as are many corporate jobs (in office parks) but the basic principal remains. Absent a city, major airport or the like for are basically going to have subsidence living in the USA.

The main reason Trump won is the vast majority of GOP voters held their noses and came home.

We will repeat the same pattern since roughly 1980-eight years of GOP rule resulting in economic fiasco (or at least a totally out of wack budget) followed by a Dem interlude where the Dems will work to solve the problems caused by the GOP while doing precious little to implement their own agenda. Overall upper level tax rates will be cut, regulations cut and indirect subsidies to corporations increased. The oligopoly that USA is becoming-well that trend will accelerate.

Wait, you think that Hillary would oppose the oligopoly? She IS the oligopoly as much as any candidate to have ever run. From broke to vast wealth with the help of her friends.

Regarding cities vs. rural, I don't have a problem with a small area determining what happens within it's region but when it decides everything for everyone within a state where it makes no sense makes no sense. That's where a lot of resentment come from.

 

[werepossum]

Pretty decent article. Unfortunately the author is explaining why the American people lost their minds, which tells me that while he remembers how rural and suburban people think, he no longer understands.

Question for people who believe a basic income is the answer: where does government get the wealth? Most manufacturing is either already off shore or rapidly moving that way. I deal with AEC engineering, and even "Proudly made in America" fixtures are now made from Chinese parts. China's dominance is so pronounced that Chinese campanies are buying up American companies, so the profits go out of our system into China. Most of our GDP is from purely internal transactions, but cutting each others' hair and selling each other the latest Chinese-made gadgets generates no real wealth. Right now we're buying those imports with real estate and company ownership, but both will eventually run out.

 

[Sunburn74]

At the end of the day we get what we deserve. We don't demand enough of our senators and state representatives. I maybe only write my reps and senators 2-3 times a year, am not really politically active with my money, maybe its time to change that.

 

[bshole]

He writes a second article called don't panic which is excellent and a must read for progressives.

http://www.cracked.com/blog/dont-panic/#

He writes "I personally believe it will, that this will be remembered as the dying last gasp of the worst part of America, one final stand against the bigotry and ignorance that has plagued us since the day we decided to build this nation on the backs of slaves." Powerful words I think.

I agree with him that the GOP is probably still dead as all signs and evidence pointed to even months ago. In terms of stages of truth, this is the violent opposition and uprising. This is the angry mob threatening Galileo with execution.

Is bigotry a genetically evolved trait developed over millions of years for survival? Is every person that marries a person of their own race expressing bigotry?

 

[bshole]

Pretty decent article. Unfortunately the author is explaining why the American people lost their minds, which tells me that while he remembers how rural and suburban people think, he no longer understands.

Question for people who believe a basic income is the answer: where does government get the wealth? Most manufacturing is either already off shore or rapidly moving that way. I deal with AEC engineering, and even "Proudly made in America" fixtures are now made from Chinese parts. China's dominance is so pronounced that Chinese campanies are buying up American companies, so the profits go out of our system into China. Most of our GDP is from purely internal transactions, but cutting each others' hair and selling each other the latest Chinese-made gadgets generates no real wealth. Right now we're buying those imports with real estate and company ownership, but both will eventually run out.

China is now the largest manufacturer in the world. There has been a paradigm shift that most Americans have not realized yet. China will be a power the likes of which the world has never seen. It is weird to be at the point in history where one empire died and a new one replaced it. Ours lasted for about a century so we didn't do too bad.

It is going to get real friggin scary when China decides to put all their manufacturing expertise into building a war machine that supercedes our own. It is inevitable.

 

[Abwx]

Hm. I'm seeing the main problem as "there are no big industries in small towns anymore". But, these days, what big industries - meaning big in terms of employment - can there be anywhere? Robots are taking over instead. Farming is done by robots (meaning robotic tractors). Assembly line work is done by robots. Mining - well, it depends on the mine. Strip mining is now done by robots - they even have dump trucks that drive themselves.

Is there any kind of industry left that can employ hundreds to thousands of workers in one place? Call centers, maybe? (The robots are coming for them too, and they're named Siri and Alexa.)

Good post, in a summary the working classes manufactured the tools that rendered her useless, they did so without questionning the notion of property of means of productions.

Now there are unlimited means to produce but no purchasing power that is extracted from the productions processes, talk of reinstating propserity at thoses conditions, that s simply impossible.

btw, how can we be sure that you are not a robotized moderator..?.

 

[Jaskalas]

...but what I don't understand is how Trump could be accepted as...

Because he spoke for "America first" policy, and Wall Street cried out in anger.
Their hatred of Trump was shown to all, and it drove an air of authenticity around Trump.
It's the media that painted Trump as "like us" to enough voters.

 

[shady28]

There is very weak correlation for the premise most are going with in this thread.

Look at Montana, look at Alaska, even CO.

Map of election vote 2016 by county :

Map of per capita income by county :

 

[SearchMaster]

There is very weak correlation for the premise most are going with in this thread.

And I think that's one of the themes of the column in the OP - that non-urbanites are sick and tired of being considered racist, bigoted, stupid, poor, and uneducated just because they aren't liberals. I'm a libertarian (small "L") and am none of those things. I didn't vote for Trump because I don't think his personality and background are a proper fit for the presidency, but I also didn't vote for Hillary for many other reasons (her background is fine, personality not so much).

I firmly believe these were the worst two candidates in the last 36-odd years I've been paying attention - period - meaning I would have voted for just about ANYONE else, and eventually did.

 

[Sunburn74]

So what then is a bigot, or a racist or an uneducated person?

Is it possible they are called those things because they are? Simply denying that one is a bigot or racist or uneducated oesn't make it true.

To argue that trump was chosen by the middle of the country for heavily economic reasons is one thing. But to deny that the heart of bigotry doesn't still run in the middle and south and southeast of our country I think dishonors those who have been fighting against it for all this time.

 

[SearchMaster]

So what then is a snobbish, holier-than-thou prejudiced libtard?

Is it possible they are called those things because they are?

Simply denying that one doesn't think he's better than others doesn't make it true.

You ARE the column, man. I'm going to assume you're young.

Edit: OK, your edit softened your reply - my apologies if mine is too harsh.

YES, there are bigots/idiots/racists who voted for Trump. And these people likely always vote Republican or don't vote at all. The column is trying to point out that there are a LOT of non-urbanites who are more independent and free-thinking but are being lumped in with the other people ("basket of deplorables", anyone?) - and THESE are the people that swung a very close election to Trump.

Here's a news flash - there are bigots/idiots/racists who voted for Hillary also. Just because their bigotry is toward white lower and middle class Americans doesn't make it better than bigotry toward black lower and middle class Americans.

 

[mect]

Pretty decent article. Unfortunately the author is explaining why the American people lost their minds, which tells me that while he remembers how rural and suburban people think, he no longer understands.

Question for people who believe a basic income is the answer: where does government get the wealth? Most manufacturing is either already off shore or rapidly moving that way. I deal with AEC engineering, and even "Proudly made in America" fixtures are now made from Chinese parts. China's dominance is so pronounced that Chinese campanies are buying up American companies, so the profits go out of our system into China. Most of our GDP is from purely internal transactions, but cutting each others' hair and selling each other the latest Chinese-made gadgets generates no real wealth. Right now we're buying those imports with real estate and company ownership, but both will eventually run out.

Most manufacturing hasn't left. We are manufacturing more than we ever have before.
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/us...utput-has-doubled-in-three-decades-2016-03-28
Global consumption is just increasing faster than our manufacturing is increasing, leading to even greater increases in manufacturing in countries like China. The concept of a basic income won't work if we are just off shoring all the jobs because then our productivity as a nation would be falling. Basic income is based on the idea that we have increasing productivity as a result of automation. As robots do more and more of the jobs, particularly when the jobs created as a result of automation aren't the types that can be done by just any individual, then it begins to make sense that a basic income is needed, probably coupled with a shorter work week because it is still good for people to be working, and as hours at jobs accessible to the majority of the population become more limited, it makes sense to make those hours accessible to more people.

 

[mect]

Me too. I've moved all over to find work.

I do feel for these people whose jobs have left and whose communities are a shell of their former selves.

You are right. Government can't solve this problem. It should be cyclical unemployment but these people are not only stuck with their skill set they are also stuck with a mentality that they could never survive elsewhere. They are not resilient people and they are not go getters.

They make excuses to move back even after they went to the city for a decent job. The excuse reads like this "I want my kids to have the same sense of community as I did". "Family is more important than career".

Some are literally afraid to set foot in the city.

So what they are asking for basically is to be fed, clothed, given a house, allowed to get fat as a cow and pass the healthcare costs over to productive more resilient members of society. They think they deserve it because it is what was promised to them when they started out.

The baby boomer generation had the best deal of any generation ever. They nicely squandered it and expected it all to keep going for life and to expect the same for their kids. Those are the people who are screaming out right now for someone to save them.

What they are asking for is beyond unreasonable but in their minds it's just what they expect. To sit around in their same town forever and never have to move for their income. I can see why maybe the older people stay but when I see families and kids being born out in those areas I really have to wonder.

These are people who strongly prefer comfort and familiarity over going out and doing whatever it takes to keep their lives going.

I can see in a certain amount of time no need for rural communities. All the activities in those areas will be done by robots. Maintenance and repair will be done by traveling groups of people.

I can only hope the kids of these places will get educated and get out. But I don't see it with a lot of these kids with the role models they have.

While the government can't necessarily solve this problem alone, they can certainly help with it. They can work to increase education opportunities for rural America. They can provide incentives for companies to expand in rural areas where they enjoy cheaper operations. We are seeing this in some areas of rural Oregon. Companies like Amazon are putting their server farms in rural towns, and its a huge boost for the area. Wind farms and other alternative energy industries are also ideal for rural areas (you can't really put a big solar farm in the middle of a city). But rural areas need to accept that these are the types of jobs that will restore money to their regions. Not lumber jobs, or ranching, etc.

As for all the rural jobs going away, not likely. So long as people want to live in rural communities, there will be rural jobs. Do you think guiding services will be automated? Forest management? Farming? Ranching? By the time these jobs are all automated, I'd say all the urban jobs will be automated as well.