Vertex 3 Raid-0 help

[Sunburn74]

I want to buy 2x 120gb vertex 3 SSDs and put them in a raid-0 but i have concerns. First concern is how to flash the firmware. The manual seems to imply intel RST drivers are incompatible with the vertex firmware toolbox. I am currently running an a RAID-0 setup with intel RST drivers. Can I use the linux tool they provide even if I don't have linux? They seem to imply it can run off disk straight up but I am not 100 percent. If I am forced to flash from windows, how do I switch from the intel RST drivers to the microsoft AHCI drivers without my raid-o becoming unuseable?

Also how reliable are these drives? Do you guys think I should wait until the next RST is released with the trim support it promises?

 

[groberts101]

you have several options. Easiest is to just follow the Linux tool guide and run the supplied Parted Magic OS off of a USB stick to update the drives while they are still set to raidmode.

Then the next easiest method is to temporarily set the bios to AHCI mode and boot from another OS volume to flash the drives as spares.

As for the certainty that you will have problems? it's not that way at all(even before the latest drivers and firmware was released). There are also the RSTe(e=enterprise) drivers that can help the very stubborn systems with ACPI tabling issues. They are slower but most who have problematic systems see great results with those drivers when all other seem to fail.
http://www.ocztechnologyforum.com/f...nterprise-drivers-seem-to-solve-Vertex-3-BSOD

ps. if you really want to pump up the incompressible data write speeds(AS SSD/CDM3/Anvil and vids, pics, music, zips, rars) of that array?.. then you surely want to be looking for the Max IOPS versions using the toggle nand. They're almost as fast as the larger/faster 240GB models. Good luck with the build

 

[Sunburn74]

So the linux tool will work without my having linux?

 

[Railgun]

If the array is fine after creation, there would be no reason to upgrade FW unless you're having an issue.

Second, if you do want to flash anyway, and are concerned about losing the array, make a backup image that you can easily revert to in the event you need to.

 

[Sunburn74]

No no my concerns are about HOW TO FLASH.

I'm currently running a RAID array with intel RST drivers and intel SSD drives. The manual for the flash tool says intel RST drivers will prevent the flash tool from recognizing vertex drives that are plugged in as secondary drives. If I get rid of the intel rst driver, I can't be sure I can even get windows to operate properly as its on the intel raid array that runs on those intel RST drivers.

So the question is how to flash? I don't think I can flash from within windows because I can't dump my intel RST driver. Can I flash from the linux tool? But I don't run linux....

I'm not at all concerned about the data on my raid array.

 

[zCypher]

Hi Sunburn74,

You can update firmware from the Linux tool, that's how I did it on my OCZ drives.

 

[Sunburn74]

Ok thanks. Any concerns about reliability of the drives? The next intel RST release should support TRIM but in the meantime I will be running without trim. Garbage collection should still occur when my PC is idle right?

 

[zCypher]

Pretty sure you should still have some good old garbage collection action happening, see OCZ Forums for a thread on the subject: http://www.ocztechnologyforum.com/forum/showthread.php?87115-Vertex-3-Raid-0-garbage-collection

Not all too familiar with RAID+SSD myself so hopefully they can give you better info.

 

[Old Hippie]

Garbage collection should still occur when my PC is idle right?

The GC will work.

Some manfgs even say their GC works when the drive is being used.

I'm no fan of OCZ but I'm sure you'll be fine.

 

[Sunburn74]

Have setup my raid 0 with the vertex 3 120gb drives. Reads are around 1gb/s. Writes near that area too. Quite pleased so far. No crashes or BSODs. Used them for a week so far.

The difference is indeed noticeable over my intel x-25m Raid 0 setup.

I ended up not having to flash. THe linux flash tool was simple to use and my vertex drives already had the latest firmware. All thats left is for me to wait for intel to release RST 11.5 which supports trim and I'll be all dandy.

 

[zCypher]

Have setup my raid 0 with the vertex 3 120gb drives. Reads are around 1gb/s. Writes near that area too. Quite pleased so far. No crashes or BSODs. Used them for a week so far.

The difference is indeed noticeable over my intel x-25m Raid 0 setup.

I ended up not having to flash. THe linux flash tool was simple to use and my vertex drives already had the latest firmware. All thats left is for me to wait for intel to release RST 11.5 which supports trim and I'll be all dandy.

Glad to hear it turned out well! My drive needed RMA after about 4-5 months. I've had my replacement at least that long and so far so good. The latest firmware seems much less problematic.

Nice to hear 1GB/s
Question about the RAID setup if you don't mind. How much boot time does it add to the usual POST?

 

[VirtualLarry]

When I had my two 30GB OCZ Agility drives in RAID-0, after a few weeks, the performance had dropped to less than that of a single drive. So I split up the RAID, installed as a single-drive, and used TRIM instead.

For some drives, the lack of TRIM, is just too much of a burden to performance to take.

I don't think that the drives could GC either, because I was and am running DC, which writes to the drive pretty often and regularly.

 

[Sunburn74]

Glad to hear it turned out well! My drive needed RMA after about 4-5 months. I've had my replacement at least that long and so far so good. The latest firmware seems much less problematic.

Nice to hear 1GB/s
Question about the RAID setup if you don't mind. How much boot time does it add to the usual POST?

So I measured some times. From the point my bios flashes anything to the point where the windows logo comes up is 12-13 seconds. From the point my windows logo comes up to where windows is open is 1-2 seconds. I think the raid portion of the bios post is about 4-6 secs.

Anyway my general feelings are, the differences in performance between an intel x-25m G1 raid setup and a vertex 3 raid setup are noticeable, but are very minor and not worth doing on their own. Don't upgrade for performance alone because its very very hard to justify that (this from someone using one of the oldest SSDs around). Upgrade for capacity or addition of features.

 

[groberts101]

that's all about right there Sunburn.

I will say this though.. the harder you multi-task your system?.. the greater the percieved benefits of raided SSD's. I use the P outta mine and absolutely hate booting to single drives any more.

Basically, if you split all those small random/write capabilities into too many little slices of that main pie when you're really doing a lot?.. you'll start imagining that an HDD is running the show again(granted.. a really fast HDD.. but still). 2 really fast SSD's or 4 average SSD's are about as slow as I like to get with my actual work usage.

These things seem like hotrods to me. The more horsepower I have?.. the more horsepower I tend to use. Nice thing about this power is that I don't get tickets for going too fast or doing burnouts at the stoplights when I abuse them. I just forget what the hell I was doing because the brain and typing skills can't keep up any more. lol

 

[Railgun]

I think the time to hitting the power button to reaching your desktop is over exaggerated in terms of importance. I don't think anyone is sitting at their desk and is saying "I have to get online NOW!"

In my case, due to my card, I'm adding an additional 15-20 seconds to boot time. Who cares!? It's the performance within the environment that is the point. Not much else. That's all great and all that you can go from power on to working in 10 seconds, but it will never outweigh a proper raid solution.

 

[groberts101]

You misunderstood my point/remark.

When I say "booting to single drives".. I actually meant "working from them". lol

I have 6 Vertex 2's and 8 HDD's running off a dedicated raidcard.. so I rarely shutdown anyways. A nice side effect of all that extra electricity?.. my drives get more than sufficient garbage collection and stay almost fresh feeling despite my HD video and music pounding them beyond capacity on a weekly basis. Raid is nice like that and more is usually better. I raid everything possible.. whenever possible.

 

[Coup27]

my drives get more than sufficient garbage collection and stay almost fresh feeling ...

I wish one of the SSD manufacturers would come out and give some figures for idle time garbage collection. Such as how long does it take for a system to be classed as idle, and how long does garbage collection take once you have reached idle?

As a point of reference, the SSD Magician software is Samsungs SSD toolbox. According to the user guide, the "performance optimization" feature manually runs TRIM and garbage collection. This process (if I do run it manually) takes 3 minutes (every time). Constrast that to the Intel SSD toolbox which optimization feature takes 2 seconds to run, because it is TRIM only.

Makes you wonder how long the drives actually need. Using that as a point of reference, it would indicate minutes and not hours...

 

[Railgun]

You misunderstood my point/remark.

When I say "booting to single drives".. I actually meant "working from them". lol

I have 6 Vertex 2's and 8 HDD's running off a dedicated raidcard.. so I rarely shutdown anyways. A nice side effect of all that extra electricity?.. my drives get more than sufficient garbage collection and stay almost fresh feeling despite my HD video and music pounding them beyond capacity on a weekly basis. Raid is nice like that and more is usually better. I raid everything possible.. whenever possible.

Sorry. It wasn't directed towards you; more of a general statement. I'm right there with you in that I'll RAID everything these days. I too leave my system on for extended periods of time so GC does its thing.

 

[groberts101]

I wish one of the SSD manufacturers would come out and give some figures for idle time garbage collection. Such as how long does it take for a system to be classed as idle, and how long does garbage collection take once you have reached idle?

As a point of reference, the SSD Magician software is Samsungs SSD toolbox. According to the user guide, the "performance optimization" feature manually runs TRIM and garbage collection. This process (if I do run it manually) takes 3 minutes (every time). Constrast that to the Intel SSD toolbox which optimization feature takes 2 seconds to run, because it is TRIM only.

Makes you wonder how long the drives actually need. Using that as a point of reference, it would indicate minutes and not hours...

yeah.. I hear ya. I learned most of what I know by literally pounding the snot out of them(varous controller/drive mfgrs) to see what's up.

Some recover better "on the fly". Some are more complex and get head problems if you don't treat them just right. And some only degrade to a certain point and then never drop below that threshold no matter what you do.

Also should be imagined that there are many ways to skin the same cat as far as the clearing of mapping/nand laundering. For instance.. some SSD's simply remap the existing data without actually clearing the nand via electrons(the controller just says.."it's clear" and writes freely without any overwrite penalty. Others will actually send a controlled charge of electrons through it's built in pump charging circuits to physically reset that block back to a logically low state(empty). An indilinx based drive is going to have the longer manual way(like samsung's) when using wiper(GC Tool).. whereas while utilizing the secure erase function built into the drive.. will actually zap the whole drive(nand and controller) back to fresh state in less than a second.

Many different algorithms and in-betweens to consider there and not many would be nearly the same as the others. Similar.. but never the same. Well.. eventually.. as they all get smarter.

Probably take a few more years.. but eventually we'll not worry about doing anything other than just using them however we want without thought for recovery modes. Personally speaking.. I think there is a lot of product placement going on here and they withhold some of the possibility for faster recovery. I mean, why buy a larger faster drive if the small entry level drive you have is recovering as fast as it can be overfilled without any recovery time, right? lol