Vent thread: Using a fish tape to snake wire is truly an art form possessed by few...

NetWareHead

THAT guy
Aug 10, 2002
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Yesterday was one of the more frustrating days in my life. My in laws bought a new electric cooktop and asked me for help to get it installed as they dont like to deal with electrical wiring. I read the instructions and determined that the existing wiring was too small. The new cooktop draws more current than the one to be replaced so a new higher rated wire was in order (bought a roll of 6/3). We needed to get the wire from the panel in the corner of a finished basement over to a laundry room (with unfinished ceiling) which was directly under the kitchen. There is a large beam that divides the basement in two parts that we needed to traverse, also hidden under drywall. They had not expected this when buying the new cooktop; they only wanted me to wire the appliance whip to the existing junction box underneath in the cabinet. Well I reassured them that it would take maybe a couple of hours to get it done and snaking was going to successfully put the new cable where we needed it....

After over 4 hours of useless poking the snake in no less than 5 different joist bays & trying to use a sewer stack pipe chase built into the wall as well as disassembling 3 can light fixtures so I could try to stick my arm up into the ceiling, I was about to lose my mind. The snake was getting bound up in the ceiling or being diverted to the side of my intended target. It would NEVER show up at my destination. And other times I would run head first into a hidden obstacle with no way of going around it. I was so frustrated and the basement was littered with tools, dismantled light fixtures, rolls of 6/3 wire etc... My father in law was also getting pissed off and began arguing with his wife about her crazy idea to replace the cooktop (he said it could be repaired) and that he was going to rip all of the drywall off of the ceiling. At that point I was feeling defeated and decided to go get my oscillating tool so we could make clean strategic cuts in the ceiling to help the snake along. My father in law cursingly and grudgingly agreed.

On my way to get the tool I decided to call my electrician who I remembered is a marvel with fish tape. Ive personally witnessed him fish up 3 floors and up and over a staircase with a landing and reach into the attic from his position in the basement. He agreed to come and help out. Why not before I cut holes in the ceilings? If he couldnt do it than nobody else could. Met him in my in-laws driveway as I was returning from fetching the oscillating tool. He took my snake and keep feeding it. I watched with amazement as he flipped the tape over to the left and back to the right and cleared the obstacles I had run into. He even knew exactly where he was in the ceiling when he called out to me to watch my face. True to his word, I was waiting at the destination point and moved over while the head of the snake exited clean as can be. He did this all on his first attempt and in less than 3 minutes. Traversed a huge beam, rode over every bit of ceiling drywall strapping and maneuvered around hvac ductwork while going diagonal between the 2 points whereas I was going parallel to the joists. I fastened the wire to the snake head and it was effortlessly pulled into the laundry room. And like that, he was gone 10 minutes later! While it was a blow to my ego, I felt humbled to witness a master of this craft work and succeed in embarrassingly short time. I got the cooktop wired up so mamma could cook dinner for us (at a much later time that night than planned).
 
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mxnerd

Diamond Member
Jul 6, 2007
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It's like a professional massage therapist who can alleviate your pain and make you feel comfortable, yet your friend or your loved one can break your neck or your ribs. It's just not your profession. :D
 
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Exterous

Super Moderator
Jun 20, 2006
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Agreed. It is an amazing skill but I cringe in horror of the hours and hours of frustration that gaining that skill must have taken.

I feel a similar way about great drywall mudders
 
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stormkroe

Golden Member
May 28, 2011
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At about 15 years experience you start 'being the ball' with a fishtape. I just fished a feed from the basement of a new house through the finished 1st floor into the half-wall of the finished loft.

Out of curiosity, what kind of powder coating walk-in oven needed a 6/3?
 
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NetWareHead

THAT guy
Aug 10, 2002
5,847
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At about 15 years experience you start 'being the ball' with a fishtape. I just fished a feed from the basement of a new house through the finished 1st floor into the half-wall of the finished loft.

Out of curiosity, what kind of powder coating walk-in oven needed a 6/3?

Replacing a 4 burner cooktop, not a range just the burners without the oven mounted to a countertop.

Installed was 10 gauge with 30 amp breaker and the new cooktop demanded 8 gauge on 40 amp breaker.

We intend to renovate the kitchen at some point when we inherit the house down the line so running 6 gauge was my way of having an electrical cable there to allow us to put in whatever we want.
 

Micrornd

Golden Member
Mar 2, 2013
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Something you might look into that can save a lot of frustration sometimes when using a fishtape is to switch to fishsticks. In some cases they are a better way to go.
BTW - for those that are laughing, fishsticks for electrical use are real, Google it :)
 

Exterous

Super Moderator
Jun 20, 2006
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Something you might look into that can save a lot of frustration sometimes when using a fishtape is to switch to fishsticks. In some cases they are a better way to go.
BTW - for those that are laughing, fishsticks for electrical use are real, Google it :)

I was telling a friend about how I was happy another friend was bringing his fish sticks over and they were trying to figure out why little pieces of fried fish made me happy in the context of getting ethernet from floor two to my basement
 

Micrornd

Golden Member
Mar 2, 2013
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I agree. I am truly an amateur fisher. Had some trouble this weekend with (empty) 3/4" conduit LOL.

Conduit is easiest with a vacuum>pull string or vacuum>pull string>pull rope depending on the size of the conduit and wire. ;)
 

NutBucket

Lifer
Aug 30, 2000
27,119
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I'm not fancy enough for that setup. Maybe I can replicate the results with compressed air?
 

natto fire

Diamond Member
Jan 4, 2000
7,117
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Conduit is easiest with a vacuum>pull string or vacuum>pull string>pull rope depending on the size of the conduit and wire. ;)
I have always done it Macgyver style with a shopping bag, careful tying, and some pull string. Greenlee makes a professional http://www.greenleestore.com/products/greenlee-592-mighty-mouser-blow-gun-kit-for-1-2-4-conduit-with-metal-box?utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=googlepla&variant=15440668931&gclid=Cj0KEQiAsrnCBRCTs7nqwrm6pcYBEiQAcQSznIvdCzjD9W4oQ7q_qBi4Yhl3sVFsYuzAA9DNRUmyvo0aAhXu8P8HAQ

My fishing lately has been done with 3/4" PEX the plumbers left lying around. I have heard good things about magnapull systems as well. It is definitely not a "buy it and forget it" sort of thing. Not an art form in the strictest sense, but definitely not something where you type in parameters and press a button for instant results.

The PEX is nice in that I can fish it through, and then use it to guide the MC in as well. Plus it is free, and my last set of Klein fish sticks broke in the middle of my fish. The metal tip separated from the fiberglass rods, probably because Klein is coasting on their name and letting foreign manufacturers like Knipex and NWS make superior tools.
 

paperfist

Diamond Member
Nov 30, 2000
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www.the-teh.com
Just to get the pull-string through, not the wire/cable ;)

lol

I have always done it Macgyver style with a shopping bag, careful tying, and some pull string. Greenlee makes a professional http://www.greenleestore.com/products/greenlee-592-mighty-mouser-blow-gun-kit-for-1-2-4-conduit-with-metal-box?utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=googlepla&variant=15440668931&gclid=Cj0KEQiAsrnCBRCTs7nqwrm6pcYBEiQAcQSznIvdCzjD9W4oQ7q_qBi4Yhl3sVFsYuzAA9DNRUmyvo0aAhXu8P8HAQ

My fishing lately has been done with 3/4" PEX the plumbers left lying around. I have heard good things about magnapull systems as well. It is definitely not a "buy it and forget it" sort of thing. Not an art form in the strictest sense, but definitely not something where you type in parameters and press a button for instant results.

The PEX is nice in that I can fish it through, and then use it to guide the MC in as well. Plus it is free, and my last set of Klein fish sticks broke in the middle of my fish. The metal tip separated from the fiberglass rods, probably because Klein is coasting on their name and letting foreign manufacturers like Knipex and NWS make superior tools.

Ugh now you tell me Klein sucks. I just purchased those fiberglass sticks during the summer and it made snaking wire through the ceiling a breeze. I didn't even know they existed till I got frustrated with the fish tape snagging on this and that. I was kind of wondering how strong the sticks are cause some of the angles I was bending them to I couldn't withstand :D
 

Micrornd

Golden Member
Mar 2, 2013
1,338
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And no lube? That's an interesting method for sure!
Yes, lube for the wire, not the string or rope.
I thought that went without saying, guess not, o_O

Oh, and the glow-in-the-dark fish sticks are really helpful in locating them through a small opening in a dark ceiling or wall.
 

monkeydelmagico

Diamond Member
Nov 16, 2011
3,961
145
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Alot of inexperienced DIY projects end up taking 10x as long as a pro could do it. That's why they get paid the big bucks.

Trying to DIY on someone else's house is tricky. They always have high expectations because they view you as "handy". They have seen what you can do on your own house. They are amazed. So they figure you are fair game for cheap labor. We like to fix things so we stupidly accept their challenge. The problem is every single project is different. When it goes well you get to be the hero. Those are great projects. When it goes wrong..... you just hope they are going to let you off the hook and hire a pro.
 

NetWareHead

THAT guy
Aug 10, 2002
5,847
154
106
Well the truth is that I accepted because I owe them big time. My in-laws are retired with few hobbies. That means we reap the benefit of their free time. They come over to our properties and do fall leaf cleanup. They've driven over to our properties to accept delivery of appliances etc... when we couldn't be there. Mamma is a gardener and she plants flowers, bushes etc... and helps our places look better. They's helped me with demolition in my renovation property. And more and more and more.... So the few times they ask for a favor, I'm more inclined to say yes and figure out how to get it done. Plus I've had good luck with past DIY projects at their house where I came out looking like the "hero" :p. But this job was vastly different. I was going to even eat the cost of my unexpected electrician visit but he was awesome and said no charge for a 10 minute job, so I probably should get him an xmas gift or some token of appreciation...