Venezuela Thinks U.S. Wants to Invade It Next For It's Oil 1-19-05

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,889
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
1-19-2005 Venezuela Says Will Not Tolerate U.S. Meddling

The U.S. government must respect Venezuela's sovereignty and stop meddling if it wants to improve ties with its fourth-largest oil supplier, Foreign Minister Ali Rodriguez said on Wednesday.

Rodriguez was responding to comments by Secretary of State-designate Condoleezza Rice who on Tuesday at her Senate confirmation hearing criticized President Hugo Chavez for what she called his autocratic measures at home and his negative influence in the region.

Opponents say Chavez's social reforms to fight poverty are a smokescreen hiding an increasingly undemocratic regime. Conflict over his rule, including the brief coup and an oil strike, battered the world's No. 5 petroleum exporter for three years.

 

Beowulf

Golden Member
Jan 27, 2001
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Miami had a huge influx of Venezuelans the last few years fleeing from Chavez's dictatorship style regime.Hell Chavez calls Castro his mentor thats how crazy that guy is.
 

Stunt

Diamond Member
Jul 17, 2002
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Venezuala has a hex on it for bringing in a protectionist leader and has tons of oil.
Canada has a liberal government and similar oil...maybe even more.

Why didnt we make the cut :p
are we not good enough to be part of the US?!
 

yllus

Elite Member & Lifer
Aug 20, 2000
20,577
432
126
Originally posted by: Beowulf
Miami had a huge influx of Venezuelans the last few years fleeing from Chavez's dictatorship style regime. Hell Chavez calls Castro his mentor thats how crazy that guy is.
I guess you guys down in FL hear about stuff like this in the local news? We hear little to nothing of South America up in Canada. Castro as one's mentor...just wondeful.

This sounds more like bravado than anything to me - they know the U.S. is hamstrung by its commitments in Iraq and Afghanistan. I wouldn't worry much about an invasion.
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,889
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: Stunt
Venezuala has a hex on it for bringing in a protectionist leader and has tons of oil.
Canada has a liberal government and similar oil...maybe even more.

Why didnt we make the cut :p
are we not good enough to be part of the US?!

There has to be somewhere for the exiled to run and hide.

 

Beowulf

Golden Member
Jan 27, 2001
1,446
0
71
Originally posted by: yllus
Originally posted by: Beowulf
Miami had a huge influx of Venezuelans the last few years fleeing from Chavez's dictatorship style regime. Hell Chavez calls Castro his mentor thats how crazy that guy is.
I guess you guys down in FL hear about stuff like this in the local news? We hear little to nothing of South America up in Canada. Castro as one's mentor...just wondeful.

This sounds more like bravado than anything to me - they know the U.S. is hamstrung by its commitments in Iraq and Afghanistan. I wouldn't worry much about an invasion.

Local news and now the locals who came from Venezuela being Cuban and in Miami theres constant spanish news on Chavez and Castro's relationship.Chavez sells Castro oil well below market price and Chavez studied in Cuba of all places.I remember watchin local TV during the last election when Chavez had to roll into the poor sections of Venezuela to get the real poor ppl to vote by offering some food.
 

Stunt

Diamond Member
Jul 17, 2002
9,717
2
0
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: Stunt
Venezuala has a hex on it for bringing in a protectionist leader and has tons of oil.
Canada has a liberal government and similar oil...maybe even more.

Why didnt we make the cut :p
are we not good enough to be part of the US?!

There has to be somewhere for the exiled to run and hide.
We are the hideout if/when the draft comes.
In all honesty...i dont think a draft will come...have you seen the recent US budgets...they don't care about money...Just wait and see how many volunteers you get with massive signing bonuses (already happening)
go see what the US gov't is giving ppl to sign on...it's nuts...nowhere near what the rest of the world is giving.
I bet for the money they are giving out...they could hire the damn insurgents...or at least 3rd world ppl. :)
 

lozina

Lifer
Sep 10, 2001
11,711
8
81
Originally posted by: Beowulf
Miami had a huge influx of Venezuelans the last few years fleeing from Chavez's dictatorship style regime.Hell Chavez calls Castro his mentor thats how crazy that guy is.

Yeah, those are the corrupt tax-evading Venezuelans which made up the opposition to Chavez because they can no longer exploit the poor people of the country for their own wealth while Chavez is around.
 

Stunt

Diamond Member
Jul 17, 2002
9,717
2
0
Originally posted by: RabidMongoose
Originally posted by: Stunt
are we not good enough to be part of the US?!

Of course you aren't.

;)
Oh yeah...*runs of to 'why america is great' thread to see why im not good enough* ;)
 

Beowulf

Golden Member
Jan 27, 2001
1,446
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71
Originally posted by: lozina
Originally posted by: Beowulf
Miami had a huge influx of Venezuelans the last few years fleeing from Chavez's dictatorship style regime.Hell Chavez calls Castro his mentor thats how crazy that guy is.

Yeah, those are the corrupt tax-evading Venezuelans which made up the opposition to Chavez because they can no longer exploit the poor people of the country for their own wealth while Chavez is around.

Not really man not all of them have money those that do move to the Doral which is now basically little Venezuela.Even in the Doral you find the poor Venezuelans who can barely afford anything but an apt. just because they are with other Venezuelans.
 

glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
25,383
1,013
126
Rodriguez was responding to comments by Secretary of State-designate Condoleezza Rice who on Tuesday at her Senate confirmation hearing criticized President Hugo Chavez for what she called his autocratic measures at home and his negative influence in the region.

Criticism is now equivalent to "not respecting sovereignty" ? Heaven be, then most Europeans are guilty of not respecting American sovereignty either. I could see if these comments were made after the administration backed the opposition in the abortive coup attempt a couple of years ago, but they seem a bit overblown now a couple of years later and in response to a simple statement of disapproval by Condi Rice.
 

lozina

Lifer
Sep 10, 2001
11,711
8
81
Originally posted by: Beowulf
Originally posted by: lozina
Originally posted by: Beowulf
Miami had a huge influx of Venezuelans the last few years fleeing from Chavez's dictatorship style regime.Hell Chavez calls Castro his mentor thats how crazy that guy is.

Yeah, those are the corrupt tax-evading Venezuelans which made up the opposition to Chavez because they can no longer exploit the poor people of the country for their own wealth while Chavez is around.

Not really man not all of them have money those that do move to the Doral which is now basically little Venezuela.Even in the Doral you find the poor Venezuelans who can barely afford anything but an apt. just because they are with other Venezuelans.

I missed how you described Venezuelan government as "dictatorship style regime". Do you even know about Venezuela's recent history? Chavez was elected by the people (mainly the majority poor people who are sick of being exploited) and as a result this bitter opposition formed mainly backed by US interests and wealthy class who were the ones benefitting from Venezuela's rich natural resources. A coup attempted to oust Chavez but was quickly overturned by an overwhleming outpouring of public protest. Since then this opposition group has staged a huge general strike in the country which literally crippled the economy then they have the audacity to blame Chavez for the economic problems! If anyone is fleeing Venezuela they're fleeing from this malicious opposition group which wants to control the country regardless of how the people voted.

some history
 

Beowulf

Golden Member
Jan 27, 2001
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Originally posted by: lozina
Originally posted by: Beowulf
Originally posted by: lozina
Originally posted by: Beowulf
Miami had a huge influx of Venezuelans the last few years fleeing from Chavez's dictatorship style regime.Hell Chavez calls Castro his mentor thats how crazy that guy is.

Yeah, those are the corrupt tax-evading Venezuelans which made up the opposition to Chavez because they can no longer exploit the poor people of the country for their own wealth while Chavez is around.

Not really man not all of them have money those that do move to the Doral which is now basically little Venezuela.Even in the Doral you find the poor Venezuelans who can barely afford anything but an apt. just because they are with other Venezuelans.

I missed how you described Venezuelan government as "dictatorship style regime". Do you even know about Venezuela's recent history? Chavez was elected by the people (mainly the majority poor people who are sick of being exploited) and as a result this bitter opposition formed mainly backed by US interests and wealthy class who were the ones benefitting from Venezuela's rich natural resources. A coup attempted to oust Chavez but was quickly overturned by an overwhleming outpouring of public protest. Since then this opposition group has staged a huge general strike in the country which literally crippled the economy then they have the audacity to blame Chavez for the economic problems! If anyone is fleeing Venezuela they're fleeing from this malicious opposition group which wants to control the country regardless of how the people voted.

some history

Of course I know about Venezuela's history hell I knew about Chavez before he got in power.He studied in Cuba for years and claims his mentor is Castro so he sells oil cheaper to him just because its his mentor while screwing the economy there.If you knew Cuban history you'd know Venezuela is soon to be a dictatorship like Cuba,Castro came supposedly with good intentions but he screwed the country and took over all American companies.Cuba was once a great place now it sucks a sad sad sight from the ppl before me everyone said it was like the USA never lacking now it lacks in everything.I wouldn't trust anyone who considers Castro their mentor you watch Chavez is going to put himself into power before he can be put out of office.These Venezuelans who come to Miami range from poor to rich so don't tell me its all the rich ppl because I don't live in the Doral and know alot of low class Venezuelans who recently arrived.As a Cuban I feel for the ppl of Venezuela because Chavez can do no good but time will tell the fate of Chavez and Venezuela I hope its not like Cuba.
 

GrGr

Diamond Member
Sep 25, 2003
3,204
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Yep, the Bush administration, through the CIA of course, was heavily involved in trying to oust Chavez. It is an interesting situation to keep an eye on. The Bush administrations aggressivness against Chavez is very telling about how they view the world and their policies.

There is a lot going on down there right now.

Chavez wants to sell oil to China but " "The US will not look
favourably on Panama aiding Venezuela to sell its oil to a competitor of the
US" said one US official familiar with the issue." (so much for free trade.) :roll:

Colombia also had one rebel leader kidnapped out of Venezuela and flown to the US.


------------------------

US to look into Venezuela oil supply reliance
By Andy Webb-Vidal in Caracas
Financial Times, January 14 2005

The US is investigating the risk of potential Venezuela oil supply
interruptions as the government of Hugo Chávez, Venezuela's president, seeks
to steer exports away from the US towards China.

A team is being assembled by the Government Accountability Office (GAO),
Congress's nonpartisan investigative agency, to study the issue at the
request of Richard Lugar, Republican chairman of the Senate Foreign
Relations committee.

US oil imports from Venezuela, the world's fifth-largest oil exporter, were
stopped in late 2002 and early 2003 due to a strike at Petroleos de
Venezuela (PDVSA), the state-owned oil company.

Although another strike is not seen as likely, Mr Chávez has since warned
several times he would send "not one more drop" of oil to the US if
Washington sought to oust him. "We must make sure that all contingencies are
in place to mitigate the effects of a significant shortfall of Venezuelan
oil production, as this could have serious consequences for our nation's
security and for the consumer at the pump," Mr Lugar said in a letter to the
GAO, obtained by the FT.

Venezuela supplies almost 15 per cent of the US's oil imports. Citgo, which
has about 15,000 filling stations in the US, is owned by PDVSA.

Another concern has emerged in recent weeks. Mr Chávez has begun to court
China as a potential buyer of Venezuelan oil, either in addition to the US
or, as some officials fear, as a replacement market.

Ali Rodriguez, Venezuela's foreign minister, said recently his country was
not seeking to deny oil to the US but was diversifying its markets.

Venezuela is currently studying how it can ship oil to China, either through
the Panama Canal or via a pipeline across the Panamanian isthmus. Washington
does not appear to be pleased by the prospect. "The US will not look
favourably on Panama aiding Venezuela to sell its oil to a competitor of the
US," said one US official familiar with the issue.

In practice, however, analysts say that in the short- to medium-term it will
be difficult for Venezuela to ship its oil to China instead of the US for
technical and economic reasons. Refineries in China are not configured to
take Venezuelan oil, which is particularly heavy, and China would need
probably two years to adjust. Furthermore, because China is far further from
Venezuela than the US east coast, additional shipping costs would have to be
assumed by either China, as the buyer, or Venezuela, as the seller.

* Venezuela has recalled its ambassador to Colombia, accusing the
neighbouring country of bribing Venezuelan authorities to participate in the
capture of a Colombian rebel in Caracas, AP reports from Caracas.

José Vicente Rangel, vice-president, said Colombia's government paid "a
bribe" to Venezuelan security officials to capture Rodrigo Granda, a leader
of the Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia, or FARC."

-----------------

 

GrGr

Diamond Member
Sep 25, 2003
3,204
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76


Venezuelan troops grab farms from Lord 'Spam' Vestey
The Daily Telegraph

By Andrew Alderson, Chief Reporter
(Filed: 09/01/2005)

Troops were preparing yesterday to seize a 32,000-acre ranch owned by one of Britain's richest men as the Left-wing leaders of Venezuela stepped up their controversial "land grab" policy.

The ranch, which is set in rich cattle-rearing land close to the Venezuelan capital of Caracas, is owned by Lord Vestey, whose personal wealth from his family's food empire is estimated at £750 million.

The peer, who is known as "Spam" to his friends, is said by his associates to be saddened and angered by the threat to his ranch. He is, however, understood to be resigned to the Venezuelan government's "illegal" actions.

This weekend, Lord Vestey, 63, declined to discuss details of the land seizure other than to say: "We've been in Venezuela for over 100 years and we hope to be there for some time yet." Lord Vestey's great grandfather bought the ranch El Charcote in 1903.

Critics of Hugo Chavez, the Left-wing Venezuelan president, have likened his policy to that of President Robert Mugabe in Zimbabwe, but his government has tried to justify its policy by describing the process as one of "agrarian redistribution".

Alfredo Toro Hardy, Venezuela's ambassador in London, said last week that the ranch was considered to be "partly idle", and that its property titles were in disarray, and this prompted an investigation in the farm's affairs and action by the authorities.

The situation for foreign owners deteriorated in 2001, when falling oil prices in Venezuela, the world's fourth-biggest oil producer, led to social unrest. President Chavez announced that he would nationalise any agricultural land not being farmed "in the national interest", to combat "selfish individualism".

Since 2001, illegal squatters have occupied several of Lord Vestey cattle ranches, including El Charcote. His initial response was to boycott a cocktail party for Venezuela's new ambassador to London, standing outside the reception and railing against those who had "done a Zimbabwe".

etc.
 

Colt45

Lifer
Apr 18, 2001
19,720
1
0
chavez is better for the common person.

The US seems to be hell bent on destroying any state in south america with a real middle class, because they are harder to exploit.
Its always money with yankees...
 

lozina

Lifer
Sep 10, 2001
11,711
8
81
Originally posted by: Beowulf
Of course I know about Venezuela's history hell I knew about Chavez before he got in power.He studied in Cuba for years and claims his mentor is Castro so he sells oil cheaper to him just because its his mentor while screwing the economy there.If you knew Cuban history you'd know Venezuela is soon to be a dictatorship like Cuba,Castro came supposedly with good intentions but he screwed the country and took over all American companies.Cuba was once a great place now it sucks a sad sad sight from the ppl before me everyone said it was like the USA never lacking now it lacks in everything.I wouldn't trust anyone who considers Castro their mentor you watch Chavez is going to put himself into power before he can be put out of office.These Venezuelans who come to Miami range from poor to rich so don't tell me its all the rich ppl because I don't live in the Doral and know alot of low class Venezuelans who recently arrived.As a Cuban I feel for the ppl of Venezuela because Chavez can do no good but time will tell the fate of Chavez and Venezuela I hope its not like Cuba.

Regarding Cuba, by any chance, could our sanctions have anything to do with how Cuba deteriorated? Hmm.. and then, we of course conveniently blame Castro for all the problems. I know Castro is no saint, but to put all the blame squarely on his shoulders while ignoring our part in it is pretty biased I think.

So what do you think about the fact that this opposition in Venezuela has crippled the economy with their general strike and is blaming Chavez for the results? Do you consider that a good way for an opposition group to conduct itself?



 

Beowulf

Golden Member
Jan 27, 2001
1,446
0
71
Originally posted by: lozina
Originally posted by: Beowulf
Of course I know about Venezuela's history hell I knew about Chavez before he got in power.He studied in Cuba for years and claims his mentor is Castro so he sells oil cheaper to him just because its his mentor while screwing the economy there.If you knew Cuban history you'd know Venezuela is soon to be a dictatorship like Cuba,Castro came supposedly with good intentions but he screwed the country and took over all American companies.Cuba was once a great place now it sucks a sad sad sight from the ppl before me everyone said it was like the USA never lacking now it lacks in everything.I wouldn't trust anyone who considers Castro their mentor you watch Chavez is going to put himself into power before he can be put out of office.These Venezuelans who come to Miami range from poor to rich so don't tell me its all the rich ppl because I don't live in the Doral and know alot of low class Venezuelans who recently arrived.As a Cuban I feel for the ppl of Venezuela because Chavez can do no good but time will tell the fate of Chavez and Venezuela I hope its not like Cuba.

Regarding Cuba, by any chance, could our sanctions have anything to do with how Cuba deteriorated? Hmm.. and then, we of course conveniently blame Castro for all the problems. I know Castro is no saint, but to put all the blame squarely on his shoulders while ignoring our part in it is pretty biased I think.

So what do you think about the fact that this opposition in Venezuela has crippled the economy with their general strike and is blaming Chavez for the results? Do you consider that a good way for an opposition group to conduct itself?

All sanctions on Cuba are worth it and this comes from a Cuban from Cuba originally,hell Bill Clinton knew it was right too when he helped with helms burton.Castro's famous speech when he entered Cuba had one particular line saying no more shall there be prostitution nah now you can fvck a 14 year old for a dollar.Hell Castro said not too recent tha Cuba has the best educated prostitutes aint that lovely.Castro killed Camillo and sent Che to his death pretty much anyone from the old regime that helped him ended up suffering.But enough on Cuba I could go on and on I even lived there for some years not best to talk about the sad state of it though.

Regarding Chavez,I see nothing wrong with the general strike these ppl don't want Chavez and should be able to voice their opinions in this case work stoppage and mass protests.I still don't know why when he was forced out of office by the military he was allowed back that was the oppositions chance.Either way Chavez will never help that country don't take my word for it history will tell the tale.
 

lozina

Lifer
Sep 10, 2001
11,711
8
81
Originally posted by: Beowulf

All sanctions on Cuba are worth it and this comes from a Cuban from Cuba originally,hell Bill Clinton knew it was right too when he helped with helms burton.Castro's famous speech when he entered Cuba had one particular line saying no more shall there be prostitution nah now you can fvck a 14 year old for a dollar.Hell Castro said not too recent tha Cuba has the best educated prostitutes aint that lovely.Castro killed Camillo and sent Che to his death pretty much anyone from the old regime that helped him ended up suffering.But enough on Cuba I could go on and on I even lived there for some years not best to talk about the sad state of it though.

Regarding Chavez,I see nothing wrong with the general strike these ppl don't want Chavez and should be able to voice their opinions in this case work stoppage and mass protests.I still don't know why when he was forced out of office by the military he was allowed back that was the oppositions chance.Either way Chavez will never help that country don't take my word for it history will tell the tale.

The opposition certainly is entitled to voice their opinion, and they certainly have done so. They attempted the constitutional means of trying to replace Chavez with a referendum but it failed because they couln't get enough signatures. So basically Chavez is democratically elected, then a referenum fails, so this opposition then goes and does something completely un-called for with the general strike. This is no little picket line in front of the local grocery store, this was a campaign which crippled the economy. Why were they able to have such an effect? Simply because the majority of this opposition are wealthy business owners who control alot of the country's businesses and resource extraction. I cannot imagine the kind of outcry the Republicans would have if the Democrats staged a similar strike in America after Kerry lost...

About the coup, he was allowed back because of the enormous public pressure rejecting the new government appointed by the opposition. The presidential palace was surrounded by a throng of protestors who wouldn't leave until Chavez was brought back. The Palace Guards too were Chavez supporters but pretending to be working under orders until they organized and had the right opportunity. It was funny to see video clips where the palace guards protecting the new opposition government officials while standing guard would sometimes look around to see if anyone was watching from inside the palace then do a quick gesture with his arm to the crowd as an indication that he was on their side. Eventually those guards retook the palace peacefully, and let officials from the democratically elected government back in to retake their country. They still lacked chavez who was believed to be held in a prison off the coast. They finally got in contact with some army commandoes who freed Chavez and brought him back by helicopter.

I highly recommend you watch the documentary The Revoluition Will Not Be Televised which offers a very rare glimpse into this coup as it occurred. Quite a good documentary.
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,889
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: Colt45
chavez is better for the common person.

The US seems to be hell bent on destroying any state in south america with a real middle class, because they are harder to exploit.
Its always money with yankees...

It's worked in the U.S. so the Rich Elitists have to use that tactic for the rest of the world which is their playground.