Venezuela seizes oil rigs owned by US company

[bfdd]

The same people complaining that the UN can't even recommend that Japan teach real history are advocating violating Venezuela's sovereignty to get back some oil rigs for companies that knowingly operated in a dictatorship.

Bait and switch. Do you have a problem with that or are you ok when corporations or even nations do it? They built these platforms under the impression from the Venezuelan government that they would be able to own and operate them. After all is said and done Venezuela decides to say fuck you and take it. That is very much a different thing. This has nothing to do with the UN, but everything to do with Venezuela "attacking" our interests.

 

[Jaskalas]

... does the constitution have a list of reasons we can go to war for and a list of reasons we can't? Attacking our corporations and our interests is very much a reason to go to war, much more so of a reason than any war we've been in in recent times.

You choose this, but not the invasion on our southern border?

 

[bfdd]

You choose this, but not the invasion on our southern border?

You don't think I have a problem with well the illegal problem? I do. I'm a big supporter of immigration reform, but the illegals currently here need to get the fuck out they don't belong here and they don't respect our nation. If you really want to get on the topic of Mexico, I think we should of gone down there along time ago and got rid of the insanely corrupt government they have that is keeping their country stuck in the 3rd world when they have all the resources and man power to be a dominate 1st world nation.

 

[Throckmorton]

Bait and switch. Do you have a problem with that or are you ok when corporations or even nations do it? They built these platforms under the impression from the Venezuelan government that they would be able to own and operate them. After all is said and done Venezuela decides to say fuck you and take it. That is very much a different thing. This has nothing to do with the UN, but everything to do with Venezuela "attacking" our interests.

These aren't OUR oil rigs. They belong to these corporations. Private property and theft have nothing to do with war.

I have no idea what a freaking "interest" is, except these "interests" are often used in the foreign policy sphere as an excuse to kill "people". I'm sick of hearing that word and I'm surprised it's even considered acceptable to openly go to war for a reason other than DEFENSE either of ourselves or the defenseless. The very idea of war for "interests" which include privately owned oil rigs should be politically incorrect, taboo, and sinful.

 

[bfdd]

These aren't OUR oil rigs. They belong to these corporations. Private property and theft have nothing to do with war.

I have no idea what a freaking "interest" is, except these "interests" are often used in the foreign policy sphere as an excuse to kill "people". I'm sick of hearing that word and I'm surprised it's even considered acceptable to openly go to war for a reason other than DEFENSE. The very idea should be politically incorrect, taboo, and sinful.

... I don't disagree that war should be used for defense and hey guess what we would be defending our interests! So yeah it's a good enough reason. Like I said this is an American company they are stealing from. This is time, effort and money put into this by Americans who were led into a bait and switch by the Venezuelan government. We have two options we either stop trading as a nation with Venezuela or we flex some military muscle and tell them they give it back or else. You don't see this as an attack against America, I do because if Venezuela wanted oil rigs in the first place they could of built them themselves instead of allowing an American company to come setup shop then snatch the rug out from under them at last second.

 

[nonlnear]

These aren't OUR oil rigs. They belong to these corporations.

100% correct.

Private property and theft have nothing to do with war.

What planet do you live on?

 

[marincounty]

Reagan, GHWB and GWB all invaded Cuba? Must of been one of those secret wars.

No, what I meant was they all had great diversions from real problems.
Reagan invaded Grenada, GHWB invaded Panama, and GWB invaded Iraq. None of these countries posed a serious threat to the US. And GWB invaded the wrong country, thus my mention of invading Cuba for something that Venezuela did.
Quit acting stupid.

 

[Jaskalas]

The very idea of war for "interests" which include privately owned oil rigs should be politically incorrect, taboo, and sinful.

That is what we have here, and I agree with you. It's a damn shame conservatism is polluted by those who think war is a game to be played.

 

[bfdd]

No, what I meant was they all had great diversions from real problems.
Reagan invaded Grenada, GHWB invaded Panama, and GWB invaded Iraq. None of these countries posed a serious threat to the US. And GWB invaded the wrong country, thus my mention of invading Cuba for something that Venezuela did.
Quit acting stupid.

It was a joke.

Also, I'm not saying we declare War on Venezuela, but posturing to show them we mean business wouldn't hurt. Not to mention there's plenty in the region that wouldn't mind giving a hand.

 

[daishi5]

These aren't OUR oil rigs. They belong to these corporations. Private property and theft have nothing to do with war.

I have no idea what a freaking "interest" is, except these "interests" are often used in the foreign policy sphere as an excuse to kill "people". I'm sick of hearing that word and I'm surprised it's even considered acceptable to openly go to war for a reason other than DEFENSE either of ourselves or the defenseless. The very idea of war for "interests" which include privately owned oil rigs should be politically incorrect, taboo, and sinful.

Well, it was my oil rig, or at least probably one or two rivets on it were mine.

But most people are not reading the article, or at least not past the first paragraph. Venezuela has been doing this for a long time, in the yearly report from HP a few years ago they were aware they assets in the country were in danger of seizure. The company did what it could to protect its assets, but Venezuela has decided to not honor their deal. First they didn't pay for the work HP did, then when HP decided to stop working for free, they used force to take the companies property. This is not the first time they did it to an American company, and it probably is not the last. We really won't do much about it now, I don't remember what Bush did the last time Chavez did this, but it wasn't much. Obama's standing will make it much harder for Chavez to defend this action, so Obama will probably have more success.

 

[txrandom]

The Lusitania did help the US go to war during WWI...

 

[werepossum]

Where in the Constitution does it say we wage war on sovereign nations for stealing "our" companies' assets?

Where in the Constitution does it say we don't? Used to be a time when the American government stood up for its citizens. Now the American government doesn't even side with its own citizens in our own country.

Two points. First, there are things that can be done short of war, such as seizing all Venezuelan (or is it Venereal?) assets in our country or even a naval blockade if worst comes to worst. Second, these rigs were in place long before Venezuela became Chaveznia, and they aren't exactly easy to move.

 

[Zebo]

Freakin' garbage. I'll volunteer to go straight to Venezuela from Afghanistan. Chavez has lasted long enough.

Why for? They won't let you kill motherfuckers proper. You like spinning your wheels? I guess so you signed up and sound reasonably intelligent.

 

[woolfe9999]

Do not disagree that doing business in places like Venezuela or any foreign country for that matter has its risks, but at the same time we can't allow Venezuela to screw our companies over like that. I totally understand playing within the rules of a foreign nation, like MS complying with the Great Firewall of China(even if I disagree with it), this though isn't the case. They let them setup shop build these platforms then took them. Very much a different scenario and this is something our government should actually step in on and take action with. This is potentially a lot of lost money and resources for one of our corporations and our nation.

Don't get me wrong. Venezuela's actions are deplorable. However, a nation does not use its military force to protect individual, private economic interests in foreign nations. Oh wait, yes we do, when we're acting in a corrupt manner. Yet our military is to protect our national security, not some American company's money. We don't use it to settle private economic scores, or to express our displeasure with the conduct of other nations.

At most, the State Department might intercede and urge the foreign power to alter its course of action, but that's as far as it should go. That's the only thing that is happening here; it's all that would have happened even under the hawkish Bush admn; and that is as is should be.

Talk of using the military and bombing shit is lunacy from people who are ideologically unhinged.

So far as the company is concerned, I'm not saying that they deserved it or even that they were stupid (maybe on that one, don't know). What I'm saying is that the risks of doing business abroad, especially in the developing world, include even the risk of foreign nations acting unreasonably, arbitrarily, without rationale justification, or even reprehensibly. To be sure, those risks are present even when operating at home, but much higher in the developing world. Such risks are factored in to the cost of doing business, and it isn't the government's job to provide military might to hedge against that risk.

Military action would cost taxpayors more than the value of the lost rigs. We'd spend more bailing out this company than the company would even receive in return FFS.

- wolf

 

[Zebo]

Where in the Constitution does it say we wage war on sovereign nations for stealing "our" companies' assets?

What a fool you are. The whole reason to form governments is to protect our interests, and our people and our companies are both interests and made up of our people.

 

[bfdd]

Don't get me wrong. Venezuela's actions are deplorable. However, a nation does not use its military force to protect individual, private economic interests in foreign nations. Oh wait, yes we do, when we're acting in a corrupt manner. Yet our military is to protect our national security, not some American company's money. We don't use it to settle private economic scores, or to express our displeasure with the conduct of other nations.

At most, the State Department might intercede and urge the foreign power to alter its course of action, but that's as far as it should go. That's the only thing that is happening here; it's all that would have happened even under the hawkish Bush admn; and that is as is should be.

Talk of using the military and bombing shit is lunacy from people who are ideologically unhinged.

So far as the company is concerned, I'm not saying that they deserved it or even that they were stupid (maybe on that one, don't know). What I'm saying is that the risks of doing business abroad, especially in the developing world, include even the risk of foreign nations acting unreasonably, arbitrarily, without rationale justification, or even reprehensibly. To be sure, those risks are present even when operating at home, but much higher in the developing world. Such risks are factored in to the cost of doing business, and it isn't the government's job to provide military might to hedge against that risk.

Military action would cost taxpayors more than the value of the lost rigs. We'd spend more bailing out this company than the company would even receive in return FFS.

- wolf

This isn't some small deal like Google not wanting to comply with China. Venezuela straight stole a lot of expensive American property as a nation. This is more along the lines of North Korea torpedoing a South Korean ship.

 

[StageLeft]

This isn't some small deal like Google not wanting to comply with China. Venezuela straight stole a lot of expensive American property as a nation. This is more along the lines of North Korea torpedoing a South Korean ship.

Well, get back to me when it's North Korea torpedoing a US ship

I agree with wolf. His argument is concise and seems to rely more heavily on reason than emotion.

Beyond the obvious no-win of the US fighting venez over this, US corps know the risk of placing businesses in sh*thole countries.

 

[bfdd]

Well, get back to me when it's North Korea torpedoing a US ship

I agree with wolf. His argument is concise and seems to rely more heavily on reason than emotion.

Beyond the obvious no-win of the US fighting venez over this, US corps know the risk of placing businesses in sh*thole countries.

Ah I wasn't saying we should attack N. Korea because they torpedoed a S. Korean boat. I just meant the situation and I would expect S. Korea to retaliate.

I have a question, what do you guys think about the Somali pirates? Nothing should be done about them right? I mean that's the risk you take going into their waters.

 

[piasabird]

Chavez has seized the assets of over 60 oil service companies. Did you know that?

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=an5G6qrs2JD8

It is time someone does something about this. The big question is why is it that this is a very under-reported issue. Where is Bill O-Riley on this? Chavez is little more than a thief.

Why shoudnt the USA Protect its own assets. Oil companies pay taxes.

 

[werepossum]

Chavez has seized the assets of over 60 oil service companies. Did you know that?

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=an5G6qrs2JD8

It is time someone does something about this. The big question is why is it that this is a very under-reported issue. Where is Bill O-Riley on this? Chavez is little more than a thief.

Why shoudnt the USA Protect its own assets. Oil companies pay taxes.

It's being under-reported because our media is overwhelmingly far left and Chavez is the progressive's darling. The things he is doing - closing down or seizing unfavorable media (read: Fox News, talk radio) and seizing and nationalizing corporations (read: BP and other oil companies, GM) are exactly the things the hard left wants Obama to do in this country. The same attitude on the left on these boards (corporations are evil so screw 'em, they knew the risks, it's not our problem) are no doubt prevalent amongst the anti-capitalist elite media as well.

When we have a national media that regularly votes more heavily for the 2% - 4% Green Party than for the 43% - 55% Republican Party, we should hardly be surprised that they regularly see no problem with Chavez' actions.

 

[dmcowen674]

We don't really need Venezuela's oil. They are a very tiny portion of our oil supply.

Never heard of Citgo?

That's Chavez's stations

 

[Red Dawn]

What a fool you are. The whole reason to form governments is to protect our interests, and our people and our companies are both interests and made up of our people.

Well if these Rigs were out in the Gulf in international waters that'd be one thing but they were located in Venezuela where we haven't any jurisdiction and makes them at risk for the whims of that country and it's leaders.

 

[Moonbeam]

It's about time people started to wake up to the reality that the largest risk in any investment is political. Strangely the financial crisis didn't teach that lesson to many people (at least not quite in the right way), so maybe we need a few more capricious seizures in the world to return some sanity to the corporate boardrooms if not to our government. There is just too much trust in the fantasy of "international law" going 'round these days. Sadly that misplaced trust resides in some very dangerous places. Lets just hope its foreign countries that are doing the seizing or the lessons learned may be moot...

Enough trust in the fantasy of international law and it will become a reality, no?

 

[her209]

Awesome, another reason why we need to move to energy independence.

 

[Steeplerot]

The "he stole our rigs" is hilarious. Like we nationalized our oil industry or something.