VB or Java?

[lowtech1]

I need an opinion on what language to take as a supplement to my hardware knowledge?

My choices are:

1. Java & Java script.
2. VB, xml & asp.

But, feel free to add any other that you think is hot, such as Flash, etc...

 

[Adul]

depends what you want to do. vb script and asp are wuick help in admining and creating asp pages. Good money in that. Especially if you can write your own asp aps. Java can aslo be used on the server side has in JSP pages. If I where you I would try to learn both.

 

[KidViciou$]

in case you e ver want to do anything with ORACLE, definitely do java

 

[MickySoft]

java & javascript are the way to go, once you are comfortable with that,
learning VB should be a breeze for you

 

[Nutcase99]

How hard is it to learn java?

 

[lowtech1]

Thanks for the replies...


...At the moment I'm debating whether to go with MS or non-MS product?

The reason is that I want to know which product will give me the tool/skill that needed for a more creative & challenging career that could combine with NetTech, but I don't know which flat-form to focus on. (I also have training in industrial design as well as traditional film & animation.)

 

[lupin]

<< ...At the moment I'm debating whether to go with MS or non-MS product? >>



Do you like Gates or not??

 

<< ...At the moment I'm debating whether to go with MS or non-MS product? >>


Microsoft is in the process of their yearly &quot;reinventing&quot; of themselves right now. They are coming out with something called .NET (something in 2001, or 2002, who knows?). It's a big mess and it's hard to understand just what it is all about. This is because Microsoft is keeping most of the specs purposefully ambiguous so they can change them as the market changes.

Anyway, on the other side of the fence is Java. J2EE has been around a while and is clearly defined. Lot's of people use it and there are big bucks to be made by knowing it.

That's just my skewed opinion.

 

[Descartes]

.NET is ambiguous? Yah, only if you don't know anything about it.

ignorance == perception of ambiguity

You can't really say &quot;Should I learn ASP, or VB, or Java?&quot;, because ASP isn't even a language... it's a technology framework (or umbrella, if you will). You can leverage your Java skills in ASP, as can those w/ VB (probably more so) skills, Perl, Python, Javascript, etc.. ASP is language independent, given that your implementation language is compliant.

On yet another note, ASP is transcended by ASP+. What ASP once was (or at least conceptually) is being replaced w/ more concrete, standard technologies like XML/XSLT, etc.. By this I don't mean ASP itself is being replaced, but simply the implementation of some aspects (separation of content from presentation, etc.) will be implemented differently.

Things change... there is no panacean solution for all (contrary to you Java bigots our there like to think). I've been following .NET since inception, and have attended most of the Microsoft conferences related to it, and I am very impressed.

Java people: &quot;Well, M$ copied off of Java w/ C#, etc.&quot;

Get over it. Technology evolves as we build on abstractions of ubiquitous technologies. Just use the right tool for the job!

 

<< .NET is ambiguous? Yah, only if you don't know anything about it. >>


If you think you know .NET then you don't know .NET. I am not talking about C#, ASP+, SOAP, or even Whistler. I am talking about the business model. You know how they plan to make money off of it. I too have followed .NET from day one, I have the beta SDK and all the whitepapers. I am not impressed. It's just a one way road down Microsoft Way, disguised as an open solution. No thanks.

Remember Cario? Where is it? I am still waiting. It's only been, what, eight years now?

 

[Descartes]

Quite the paradox, yah? If I think I know .NET, I don't.

True, I can't possibly 'know' .NET to an extent where I would declare myself as a .NET pundit, but I do know this. .NET really isn't anything new. Their new platform solutions (which include BizTalk, Commerce, Exchange, etc., etc., servers) are _very_ impressive.

I'm impressed with Microsoft's direction. I'm not impressed w/ the propaganda of Steve Ballmer at every intro to every MS conference, but that's to be expected. I applaud MS for (finally) transitioning to a more open standard (hence their XML integration into everything.NET), more independent (hence again, their language independence into everything.NET), and greater cooperation with standards organizations during development of their products. True, BizTalk server is really just a new version and conglomerate of technologies we see in other products by MS, but what once was convoluted is now seamless. Within a matter of a few hours I was able to leverage some 'advancements' of SQL Server 2000 and their native XML support to deliver a multi-platform solution to every potential client (wap-devices, browsers, flat files for legacy applications, etc.) using XSLT. Why am I impressed? Because, in normal MS fashion, one would have a proprietary release of an application that semi-conformed to a standard. This just doesn't appear to be the case anymore. Every subsequent release of MS' XML Parser has supported the latest XSL standard, and the development continues.

There are other products that are constituents of .NET which are equally impressive. Commerce Server 2000 (I've been developing on Site Server Commerce Edition for quite a while now, this is just a continuation w/ additional features) will allow dev teams to take advantage of turnkey solutions, Host Integration server will (hopefully) ease the integration of platforms such as AS/400 (I'll let you know, I'm going to be doing exactly this in the coming months), and BizTalk... well... we'll just see.

Ack! I sound like I work for MS marketing. I assure you, I am completely unbiased, but it just so happens that most of my target platform is a Windows variant, and I've long awaited this kind of support from MS.

Anyhoo, this was not a flame. Just my opinion on the matter...

 

[Descartes]

This will probably patronize you, but:

I noticed you put down 'SOAP' as though it were a MS solution. MS has supported SOAP all the way, along w/ a slew of other companies. If you're not excited about a standardized form of XML-RPC... @#$@! There's also a technology called ROPE (don't know if it's a suggested standard or not) that encapsulates the implementation of SOAP that doesn't require you to actually build the SOAP envelope messages, etc.. What does this mean to you? Well, that depends...

edited for misspell

 

[StageLeft]

Back to the question at hand...

lowtech, either one will give you good money in the future.

I'm working with MS products now as well as Javascript, have done some Java in the past. I suppose if I was starting from scratch I might say Java, but realize that it is harder than VB to learn, and you will see results slower (in the programs you can make). In terms of where you can go with it though Java can build some nifty stuff. If you start with Java and later learn VB it will likely be easier than going the other way around...so in that sense start with Java.

If you are just learning these &quot;for fun&quot; I suppose it doesn't really matter. java will give you a great background, so I would go with that. If your goal is to go from knowing nothing to employed in 3 months I'd grab yourself an ASP starter's guide using VBscript as the language behind it and go to town.

You should also learn something about databases, access is a very easy place to start...

 

I am actually using SOAP for a couple applications. There is an excellent implementation of SOAP available for Apache. It's Java based and works quite well.

 

[lowtech1]

Wow! I love you guys

...As for programming I?m starting from scratch. I haven?t touch programming (basic, pascal, assembler) in 10+ years, and my knowledge in HTML &amp; Access only has been a personal interest.

I?m asking advice in this forum as a second opinion to my brother advice on Java, because I wanted to have a broader picture of what I should do. My brother is a Senior Developer/Consultant Manager for PriceWaterHouseCoopers with a background on Oracle (9y developer &amp; 2y Oracle teacher), and he is also looking for something that is more interesting/creative than being a database developer. What I want to know is why my brother tell me to go after the non-MS route, while most of the coding that his company does is MS codes, also the area we live in is a MS oriented area (80% of the companies here are MS yes men).

 

[StageLeft]

MS has an awful lot of jobs...perhaps a good Java programmer will make more than a good MS developer? Not sure, he may be telling you to touch Java because it will set your mind at ease when its time to learn MS products? Why don't you ask him

 

<< . My brother is a Senior Developer/Consultant Manager for PriceWaterHouseCoopers with a background on Oracle >>


Damn, your brother must be getting paid well

 

[lowtech1]

Skoorb, dwell

I have talked to my brother and told me no education is a waste, but it seemed to him that Java is very hot at the moment, because he have lost quite a few good friends/developers to the competition Java developing firms. But, It could be that his company paid isn?t competitive enough to keep the coders once they learn how to code for Oracle.

I hope you have your answer from what I said above dwell, because I don?t have clued of what my brother finances is like...and by the living standard of where we live, his family would fall in to the low middle class standard.

 

lowtech: Really? Low middle class? Here in NYC someone with 9 years Oracle can get as high as 200k a year doing anything Oracle. It all depends where you work. I thought Coopers paid a lot. I guess it depends at lot on the location and branch.

I talked to a recruiter friend of mine yesterday and she says everyone is looking for Java developers. Good ones at that. J2EE is really hot right now. Someone with a good EJB background can command top bucks.

Oracle and Java go hand in hand. Your brother should be able to pick up some Java just by having the Oracle tools at his disposal.

 

[lowtech1]

dwell,

I think my brother does know Java, but hasn't has much of a chance to code in it, because his clients are MS happy.

Also he is at the tax bracket that the Canadian gov take more than 50% in income tax.

My brother might be interest in relocatting his family if the paid is high enought that be belive to out weight the environment. And, could you ask your friend what he could expect of an employer in NYC, and the name of the recruit company so I could pass it along to him. Also his wife is a Senior BioTech Researcher with 7 years of experience.

 

If you want I will pass you the name and number of my recruiter friend. She is always looking for experienced talent. She is in NYC and has lots of good contacts at the financial places. That's where the money is.

Would there be any problems regarding US citizenship?

 

[lowtech1]

dwell,

That great if you could PM me your friend name &amp; number so I could forward it to my brother.

Thanks