Vatican Warns Catholics Against Marrying Muslims

[conjur]

Vatican Warns Catholics Against Marrying Muslims

Fri May 14, 2004 12:43 PM ET

By Shasta Darlington
VATICAN CITY (Reuters) - The Vatican warned Catholic women on Friday to think hard before marrying a Muslim and urged Muslims to show more respect for human rights, gender equality and democracy.

Calling women "the least protected member of the Muslim family," it spoke of the "bitter experience" western Catholics had with Muslim husbands, especially if they married outside the Islamic world and later moved to his country of origin.

The comments in a document about migrants around the world were preceded by remarks about points of agreement between Christians and Muslims but they seemed likely to fuel mistrust between the world's two largest religions.

The document said the Church discouraged marriages between believers in traditionally Catholic countries and non-Christian migrants.

It hoped Muslims would show "a growing awareness that fundamental liberties, the inviolable rights of the person, the equal dignity of man and woman, the democratic principle of government and the healthy lay character of the state are principles that cannot be surrendered."

When a Catholic woman and Muslim man wanted to marry, it said, "bitter experience teaches us that a particularly careful and in-depth preparation is called for."

It said one possible problem was with Muslim in-laws and advised future mothers that they must insist on Church policy that children born of a mixed marriage be baptized and brought up as Catholics.

If the marriage is registered in the consulate of a Muslim country, the document said, the Catholic must be careful not to sign a document or swear an oath including the shahada, the Islamic profession of faith, which would amount to converting.

DIFFERENT APPROACHES

The document highlighted the contrasting approaches the Vatican has taken in recent years toward Islam, which has emerged as a strong rival for souls, especially in Africa.

Pope John Paul has broken ground in dialogue with Muslims and even prayed in a mosque in Damascus. He won plaudits in the Muslim world for his strong opposition to the Iraq war.

But Vatican officials and leading Catholic prelates have expressed increasingly critical views about the spread of Islam and the challenge this poses for Catholicism.

The Vatican's top theologian, Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, said earlier this week the West "no longer loves itself" and so was unable to respond to the challenge of Islam, which was growing because it expressed "greater spiritual energy."

The migration document also discouraged churches from letting non-Christians use their places of worship.

This issue arose last month when Muslims in Spain asked to be able to pray in Cordoba cathedral, which was once a mosque. A senior Vatican official said this would be "problematic."

 

[SuperTool]

Well. They should think hard, and consider cultural and religious factors, including what religion if any the kids will be, are they going to convert to Islam, etc. Not because the church tells them that, but because it's common sense due dilligence.

 

[InfectedMushroom]

muuahahaha,
it's like one killer telling his sister: "don't marry that guy, i know him. he's a worst killer than me".

hahahaha

 

[iotone]

well, from a civil rights point of view, i can see how they're trying to make sure that there's some equality for women... i know that coming from the Vatican this seems like it's some sort of religious spat, but i think that just from a "Western" social view, a woman who isn't cultured in Muslim faith and practices who marries a Muslim may have problems with the way Muslims view women...

now, i don't claim to be an expert on culture or anything, but generally i think when different cultures marry into each other, it takes a lot of work and understanding, much more than if two people of similar cultures marry...

 

[magomago]

haha yeah~ thought the last tidbit is interesting

The migration document also discouraged churches from letting non-Christians use their places of worship.

This issue arose last month when Muslims in Spain asked to be able to pray in Cordoba cathedral, which was once a mosque. A senior Vatican official said this would be "problematic."

/me rolls eyes...

RIIIIIIIIIIIGHT

 

[Dedpuhl]

Considering that Christians, along with Atheists, Jews, Pagans, and every other person that is not muslim, are mortal enemies and infidels, I think anyone marrying into Islam should think twice.

 

[viivo]

It's sad when adults must fight over whose imaginary friend takes precedence in a relationship, but the Pope's got a point. I don't see it as hateful on the surface, but looking out for the safety of women; well, Christian women, anyway - those Jesus killer bitches can be converted and beaten all day.

Disclaimer: Not all men of the Islamic faith will try to convert their significant other and beat them if they don't obey.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Interesting.

I tend to agree that, as a general matter, ANY woman should look before she leaps before getting married, but particularly to a person of Muslim faith. There's no question that, as it is practiced in many places, the Islamic faith provides for a limited, relatively prostrate role for women. This may be a shock to their systems, and they may find it humiliating or unpleasant. On the other hand, there are plenty of Muslims who have emigrated to other countries, like ours, who have a more enlightened view of the role of women, and will not engender this problem (I have a good female friend whose husband is a Pakistani-born Muslim, and if anything their arguments tend to stem from him wanting her to work and be self-sustaining so she will be OK if anything happens to him).

That said, this message seeems highly disrespectful, even contemptuous, of an entire faith, and frankly I find it pretty stupefyingly arrogant. I can't say that I'd blame Muslim leaders for warning Catholic parents against allowing their children to become altarboys . . .

 

[Czar]

A story from iceland

An icelandic woman married a Turkish man, they lived here for a few years and had two doughters. Then it happend that they divorced and the local laws awarded the woman custody over the girls with visitation rights for the father. Then one day the girls go missing and as it turns out the father had kidnapped the girls and moved them to Turkey. There the turkish government did nothing and a new trial for the custody started in Turkey. The father got full custody and very very limited visitation rights for the mother. This whole thing started if I remember correctly when the girls were 6 and 8 and now they are around 18-20 and so far the mother has only been allowed to see the girls for perhaps a day at a time only a few times over the years and with someone watching her in the room. That was alot less then the turkish court had ruled. The girls have been rised in a muslim fashin, praying each day, reading the koran and so on and a year ago or so one of the girls was given away to be married to a muslim man in turkey. The mother only heard about this after it was all arenged.

this is only from memory so its probably not entirely accurate but there are plenty of sources if you want to learn more

http://www.echr.coe.int/Eng/Press/2003/sept/JudgmentHansen23092003.htm
and more from google
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=sophia+Hansen+turkey

 

[Genesys]

Originally posted by: SuperTool
...it's common sense due dilligence.

those are something that a lot of people in todays society lack.

 

[jyates]

It's kind of like putting a sign on an oven.

"Don't stick your head in here when this oven is turned on".

There's your sign as the comedian says.......

 

[Genx87]

When you see how some of these countries treat women I dont think the Vatican is doing anything but a public service.

 

[Drift3r]

So if the church is so concerned with women's rights why are women still stuck at the bottom of the church hierarchy ? Maybe they should just worry about their own little problems like priest and nuns raping young boys and girls and get a handle on that issue rather then throwing stones at other peoples religon.

 

[Drift3r]

Originally posted by: Genx87
When you see how some of these countries treat women I dont think the Vatican is doing anything but a public service.

Have you ever been south of the border or any other poor 3rd world country and seen how some of those poeple treat their women ?

 

[Moonbeam]

I hear that all the time from women Catholic priests.

 

[MidasKnight]

Originally posted by: Dedpuhl
Considering that Christians, along with Atheists, Jews, Pagans, and every other person that is not muslim, are mortal enemies and infidels, I think anyone marrying into Islam should think twice.

Very good point.

 

[magomago]

actually christians, jews and sabians are called "people of the book" by the Quran

so they aren't "infidels"....

the term "infidel" is used to a peron who completely denies the exists of god.

 

[Zephyr106]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
I hear that all the time from women Catholic priests.

In related news.... the Vatican warns Catholics against allowing young boys to be alone around priests.

Zephyr

 

[etech]

Originally posted by: Drift3r

Originally posted by: Genx87
When you see how some of these countries treat women I dont think the Vatican is doing anything but a public service.

Have you ever been south of the border or any other poor 3rd world country and seen how some of those poeple treat their women ?

Do you have any stories of them throwing acid in the face of their womem? How about them killing their women because they "dishonered" the family? How about stoning a women to death for adultry?

I can find and post links to those stories in Muslim countries. Do you want me to find them?

 

[BugsBunny1078]

What do you care conjur? You are not Catholic.
Any Christian preacher will tell you not to marry a Non-Christian.
You cannot have a successful marriage with someone who you have completely different fundamental beliefs and ideals.
It would never work so it is very wise advice.
I will tell you right now if you're an atheist and you marry anyone but another atheist you are making a terrible mistake.

 

[Klixxer]

Originally posted by: Genx87
When you see how some of these countries treat women I dont think the Vatican is doing anything but a public service.

LMAO, so you are saying the Vatican supports womens rights? LMAO, that was the first time i ever heard that joke.

Get a grip man, the Vatican churches attitude towards women is no better than radical muslims. Stay at home, do the dishes and produce babies is the message of both, go out and you get what you deserve.

 

[Klixxer]

Originally posted by: etech

Originally posted by: Drift3r

Originally posted by: Genx87
When you see how some of these countries treat women I dont think the Vatican is doing anything but a public service.

Have you ever been south of the border or any other poor 3rd world country and seen how some of those poeple treat their women ?

Do you have any stories of them throwing acid in the face of their womem? How about them killing their women because they "dishonered" the family? How about stoning a women to death for adultry?

I can find and post links to those stories in Muslim countries. Do you want me to find them?

This happens in the Hindu parts of India too (actually more common there than anywhere else), what does that tell you? The religion does not matter when fundies are riled up. How about Catholic suicide bombers in Ireland? is that ok because they are not muslim? have you even said ONE word about that? Of course not.

Why not?

 

[Klixxer]

Originally posted by: BugsBunny1078
What do you care conjur? You are not Catholic.
Any Christian preacher will tell you not to marry a Non-Christian.
You cannot have a successful marriage with someone who you have completely different fundamental beliefs and ideals.
It would never work so it is very wise advice.
I will tell you right now if you're an atheist and you marry anyone but another atheist you are making a terrible mistake.

Why do men care about womans rights? Unless you are a sociopath you have the ability to feel empathy and recognize evil where you see it.

If you had that ability, you would know why.

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: BugsBunny1078
What do you care conjur? You are not Catholic.
Any Christian preacher will tell you not to marry a Non-Christian.
You cannot have a successful marriage with someone who you have completely different fundamental beliefs and ideals.
It would never work so it is very wise advice.
I will tell you right now if you're an atheist and you marry anyone but another atheist you are making a terrible mistake.

Thanks for the advice, dad.


:roll:

 

[Kadarin]

Originally posted by: Klixxer
How about Catholic suicide bombers in Ireland?

Link to an example? Any example?