Vancouver BC Tries Free Heroin Program

[Duckzilla]

Taxpayers to buy heroin for addicts!

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,150076,00.html

Can you imagine the international flak the US would get if we tried this? Incidentally, it's nice of them to call it the "North American Opiate Medication Initiative" even though it's only for Canadians.

 

[Literati]

WHAT?

[edit]

Let me clarify my last response...

What... TF?

 

[imported_Condor]

Why not let them pay for it? They manage to pay the pusher.

 

[miketheidiot]

cheap i could understand.




free is downright moronic.

 

[Kibbo]

Originally posted by: Condor
Why not let them pay for it? They manage to pay the pusher.

Because some of them pay the pusher by being criminals. That's the whole point of this thing.

 

[magomago]

why not just...legalize it? seems cheaper that way since they don't have to spend money and they can tax it

why directly purchase for the addict?

 

[dmcowen674]

Not a bad idea. They will kill themselves on it, problem solved :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: Kibbo

Originally posted by: Condor
Why not let them pay for it? They manage to pay the pusher.

Because some of them pay the pusher by being criminals. That's the whole point of this thing.

Not only that, the Users will be exposed to programs offering help, such as Detox. Once they get away from the criminal side of their lives, they may begin to want more, freedom from Heroine. What they do to get Heroine tends to make them want Heroine even more in order to escape from the trauma. At the very least this program is worth trying, because certainly stopping Heroine from entering the Country isn't working.

 

[shira]

Originally posted by: Kibbo

Originally posted by: Condor
Why not let them pay for it? They manage to pay the pusher.

Because some of them pay the pusher by being criminals. That's the whole point of this thing.

By having the Province pay for the heroin, the black market is completely eliminated and the addicts don't need to engage in criminal activities to pay for their habit. So no turf wars, drive-by shootings, and gang-related criminality by drug gangs (since they'll be out of business), no burglaries to raise drug money, decreased incidence of new HIV infections (I assume the province will also hand out free, clean needles), no addicts clogging up the legal system and the prisons (how does saving several tens of billions of dollars in the US each year sound to you?), no drug-related corruption among law-enforcement officials, reduced chance of drug overdose- or contamination-related problems (since the state will ensure purity), increased access to addicts to provide detoxification information, . . . .

Well, I could go on and on. It makes complete sense that BC would conclude that a free-heroin program might be the very best way to eliminate most of the horrible problems associated with the "War On Drugs" approach pursued ad-nauseum in the United States. But it takes brave, results-oriented leaders to try an approach like BC's. Not likely to happen in my lifetime in the US.

 

[skull]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Not a bad idea. They will kill themselves on it, problem solved :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

I love the lack of knowledge about drugs the government has forced on people. If you research herion just a little bit. You would learn that people only die from overdoses and diseases. If herion was pure and people could easily learn how to use it overdose would be eliminated. If addicts could get clean needles there would be alot less disease.
People have been known to use herion for decades with no problems. Mostly doctors addicted to morphine. They can get a clean source and know how to do it. Herion turns into morphine as soon as it hits the bloodstream.

The government should not be paying for someones fix that is ridiculous. It needs to be legalized. So it becomes pure and cheap enough for addicts to use like most everyday alcoholics.

 

[crooked22]

Let the government pay for it. Instead of new funding, diverge funds from used in anti drug proliferation and pretty much save a bundle and eliminate a market. Totally against what "everyone" has been telling us for ages, but its just sound from a finanial point of view.

I would like to see say, Alan Greenspan discussing these economics and see whats up with that.

 

[ahurtt]

Originally posted by: skull

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Not a bad idea. They will kill themselves on it, problem solved :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

I love the lack of knowledge about drugs the government has forced on people. If you research herion just a little bit. You would learn that people only die from overdoses and diseases. If herion was pure and people could easily learn how to use it overdose would be eliminated. If addicts could get clean needles there would be alot less disease.
People have been known to use herion for decades with no problems. Mostly doctors addicted to morphine. They can get a clean source and know how to do it. Herion turns into morphine as soon as it hits the bloodstream.

The government should not be paying for someones fix that is ridiculous. It needs to be legalized. So it becomes pure and cheap enough for addicts to use like most everyday alcoholics.

Yeah and everybody knows drunk people and alcoholics never hurt anybody or caused any problems right? :roll: No alcoholic ever died of alcohol poisoning right? yeah so lets just legalize all the smack and crack and whack. It's bad enough they had to repeal prohibition. Given all the problems in society alcohol causes, I can't believe anybody would consider legalizing any drug as addictive as Heroin. And just because something is "pure" does not prevent anybody from overdosing on it and dying. Plenty of people have died of alcohol poisoning or liver failure from alcohol they bought perfectly legally.

[Edit] Moron.

[Edit again] And to dmcowen674: If they were only hurting themselves, fine. I'd have no problem with it. But we'd have to ship them all off to some island in the middle of the ocean somewhere where they couldn't affect normal people. It's all the other people and kids who have to share the same roads, schools, offices, space, and breathe the same air as the wastoids we should worry about.

 

[3chordcharlie]

This is actually a clinical study. It figures Fox would report it inaccurately though.

IIRC half the people in the program are assigned to heroin, and half to a clinical trial for another drug designed to control heroin cravings (not sure if it's methadone or something new). At the conclusion of the study, the rest of the participants will be switched over to treatment.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: ahurtt

Originally posted by: skull

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Not a bad idea. They will kill themselves on it, problem solved :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

I love the lack of knowledge about drugs the government has forced on people. If you research herion just a little bit. You would learn that people only die from overdoses and diseases. If herion was pure and people could easily learn how to use it overdose would be eliminated. If addicts could get clean needles there would be alot less disease.
People have been known to use herion for decades with no problems. Mostly doctors addicted to morphine. They can get a clean source and know how to do it. Herion turns into morphine as soon as it hits the bloodstream.

The government should not be paying for someones fix that is ridiculous. It needs to be legalized. So it becomes pure and cheap enough for addicts to use like most everyday alcoholics.

Yeah and everybody knows drunk people and alcoholics never hurt anybody or caused any problems right? :roll: No alcoholic ever died of alcohol poisoning right? yeah so lets just legalize all the smack and crack and whack. It's bad enough they had to repeal prohibition. Given all the problems in society alcohol causes, I can't believe anybody would consider legalizing any drug as addictive as Heroin. And just because something is "pure" does not prevent anybody from overdosing on it and dying. Plenty of people have died of alcohol poisoning or liver failure from alcohol they bought perfectly legally.

[Edit] Moron.

[Edit again] And to dmcowen674: If they were only hurting themselves, fine. I'd have no problem with it. But we'd have to ship them all off to some island in the middle of the ocean somewhere where they couldn't affect normal people. It's all the other people and kids who have to share the same roads, schools, offices, space, and breathe the same air as the wastoids we should worry about.

Not true. Simply look at Dry Counties Vs Wet Counties.

The Dry Counties have more of a problem with Alcohol because of human nature.

People want more what they can't have.

 

[3chordcharlie]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Not true. Simply look at Dry Counties Vs Wet Counties.

The Dry Counties have more of a problem with Alcohol because of human nature.

People want more what they can't have.

When you make something illegal, you may not increase its use, but you remove the ordinary channels for aquiring it, and there is a lot more opportunity to get caught up in other probelms.

Force drinking into shady underground clubs, and you now have more people in shady underground clubs; the outcome isn't surprising.

 

[ahurtt]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: ahurtt

Originally posted by: skull

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Not a bad idea. They will kill themselves on it, problem solved :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

I love the lack of knowledge about drugs the government has forced on people. If you research herion just a little bit. You would learn that people only die from overdoses and diseases. If herion was pure and people could easily learn how to use it overdose would be eliminated. If addicts could get clean needles there would be alot less disease.
People have been known to use herion for decades with no problems. Mostly doctors addicted to morphine. They can get a clean source and know how to do it. Herion turns into morphine as soon as it hits the bloodstream.

The government should not be paying for someones fix that is ridiculous. It needs to be legalized. So it becomes pure and cheap enough for addicts to use like most everyday alcoholics.

Yeah and everybody knows drunk people and alcoholics never hurt anybody or caused any problems right? :roll: No alcoholic ever died of alcohol poisoning right? yeah so lets just legalize all the smack and crack and whack. It's bad enough they had to repeal prohibition. Given all the problems in society alcohol causes, I can't believe anybody would consider legalizing any drug as addictive as Heroin. And just because something is "pure" does not prevent anybody from overdosing on it and dying. Plenty of people have died of alcohol poisoning or liver failure from alcohol they bought perfectly legally.

[Edit] Moron.

[Edit again] And to dmcowen674: If they were only hurting themselves, fine. I'd have no problem with it. But we'd have to ship them all off to some island in the middle of the ocean somewhere where they couldn't affect normal people. It's all the other people and kids who have to share the same roads, schools, offices, space, and breathe the same air as the wastoids we should worry about.

Not true. Simply look at Dry Counties Vs Wet Counties.

The Dry Counties have more of a problem with Alcohol because of human nature.

People want more what they can't have.

Where are you getting your facts from? I'd love to look as you say. By dry counties do you mean those in which only the sale of alcohol is prohibited or that it is illegal to even drink alcohol? If you mean the latter, then I would argue that the reason dry counties have more problem is because any time anybody drinks, it is breaking the law. Each time a person gets drunk or has a glass of wine, it is against the law and thus a crime. Does it mean more people are drinking more volume and more frequently than non-dry counties? Probably not.

 

[Fern]

Originally posted by: Duckzilla
Taxpayers to buy heroin for addicts!

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,150076,00.html

Can you imagine the international flak the US would get if we tried this? Incidentally, it's nice of them to call it the "North American Opiate Medication Initiative" even though it's only for Canadians.

This is really nothing new. Germany and IIRC Switzerland had (or still do?) such programs.

Around 1990 I was working for a firm in Paris, who proposed I tansfer to their office in Franfurt and sent me on a visit. After spending the morning speaking with the peeps in the office, I decided to take off for walk around town and grab a cold brew (crystol Weizen bier) as I cut through a city park I witness the "free herion" truck pull into park.

I didn't realize what it was at first, just got a bit nervious cuz I found myself almost immediately surrounded by a bunch of rough looking peeps. They seemed to come out of the "woodwork" (bushes and shrubs actually). Well, they shot up right away, many passing out where they stood. It was pretty weird/disgusting.

When I got back to Paris the next day I told 'em I wasn't gonna transfer ( I had already lived in Berlin for a couple of years and preferred Paris anyway)

Fern

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: shira

Originally posted by: Kibbo

Originally posted by: Condor
Why not let them pay for it? They manage to pay the pusher.

Because some of them pay the pusher by being criminals. That's the whole point of this thing.

By having the Province pay for the heroin, the black market is completely eliminated and the addicts don't need to engage in criminal activities to pay for their habit. So no turf wars, drive-by shootings, and gang-related criminality by drug gangs (since they'll be out of business), no burglaries to raise drug money, decreased incidence of new HIV infections (I assume the province will also hand out free, clean needles), no addicts clogging up the legal system and the prisons (how does saving several tens of billions of dollars in the US each year sound to you?), no drug-related corruption among law-enforcement officials, reduced chance of drug overdose- or contamination-related problems (since the state will ensure purity), increased access to addicts to provide detoxification information, . . . .

Well, I could go on and on. It makes complete sense that BC would conclude that a free-heroin program might be the very best way to eliminate most of the horrible problems associated with the "War On Drugs" approach pursued ad-nauseum in the United States. But it takes brave, results-oriented leaders to try an approach like BC's. Not likely to happen in my lifetime in the US.

Instead you create an entitlement program where the people truely are addicted. btw those criminals that pushed heroine? They wont wakeup tomorrow and get a real job. They will find another criminal activity to pursue. When prohibition of alcohol ended the Mob didnt suddenly disappear. Instead they moved into organized labor, drug traffic, and strong arming people.

 

[imported_Condor]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Not a bad idea. They will kill themselves on it, problem solved :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Dmn, Dave! I agree with you again.

 

[imported_Condor]

Originally posted by: shira

Originally posted by: Kibbo

Originally posted by: Condor
Why not let them pay for it? They manage to pay the pusher.

Because some of them pay the pusher by being criminals. That's the whole point of this thing.

By having the Province pay for the heroin, the black market is completely eliminated and the addicts don't need to engage in criminal activities to pay for their habit. So no turf wars, drive-by shootings, and gang-related criminality by drug gangs (since they'll be out of business), no burglaries to raise drug money, decreased incidence of new HIV infections (I assume the province will also hand out free, clean needles), no addicts clogging up the legal system and the prisons (how does saving several tens of billions of dollars in the US each year sound to you?), no drug-related corruption among law-enforcement officials, reduced chance of drug overdose- or contamination-related problems (since the state will ensure purity), increased access to addicts to provide detoxification information, . . . .

Well, I could go on and on. It makes complete sense that BC would conclude that a free-heroin program might be the very best way to eliminate most of the horrible problems associated with the "War On Drugs" approach pursued ad-nauseum in the United States. But it takes brave, results-oriented leaders to try an approach like BC's. Not likely to happen in my lifetime in the US.

It sounds like a dream if it comes true. Like Magomago posted, just legalize it.

 

[imported_Condor]

Originally posted by: ahurtt

Originally posted by: skull

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Not a bad idea. They will kill themselves on it, problem solved :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

I love the lack of knowledge about drugs the government has forced on people. If you research herion just a little bit. You would learn that people only die from overdoses and diseases. If herion was pure and people could easily learn how to use it overdose would be eliminated. If addicts could get clean needles there would be alot less disease.
People have been known to use herion for decades with no problems. Mostly doctors addicted to morphine. They can get a clean source and know how to do it. Herion turns into morphine as soon as it hits the bloodstream.

The government should not be paying for someones fix that is ridiculous. It needs to be legalized. So it becomes pure and cheap enough for addicts to use like most everyday alcoholics.

Yeah and everybody knows drunk people and alcoholics never hurt anybody or caused any problems right? :roll: No alcoholic ever died of alcohol poisoning right? yeah so lets just legalize all the smack and crack and whack. It's bad enough they had to repeal prohibition. Given all the problems in society alcohol causes, I can't believe anybody would consider legalizing any drug as addictive as Heroin. And just because something is "pure" does not prevent anybody from overdosing on it and dying. Plenty of people have died of alcohol poisoning or liver failure from alcohol they bought perfectly legally.

[Edit] Moron.

[Edit again] And to dmcowen674: If they were only hurting themselves, fine. I'd have no problem with it. But we'd have to ship them all off to some island in the middle of the ocean somewhere where they couldn't affect normal people. It's all the other people and kids who have to share the same roads, schools, offices, space, and breathe the same air as the wastoids we should worry about.

They repealed prohibition because it didn't work and was killing more people than the booze. Same case for drugs.

 

[imported_Condor]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: ahurtt

Originally posted by: skull

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Not a bad idea. They will kill themselves on it, problem solved :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

I love the lack of knowledge about drugs the government has forced on people. If you research herion just a little bit. You would learn that people only die from overdoses and diseases. If herion was pure and people could easily learn how to use it overdose would be eliminated. If addicts could get clean needles there would be alot less disease.
People have been known to use herion for decades with no problems. Mostly doctors addicted to morphine. They can get a clean source and know how to do it. Herion turns into morphine as soon as it hits the bloodstream.



The government should not be paying for someones fix that is ridiculous. It needs to be legalized. So it becomes pure and cheap enough for addicts to use like most everyday alcoholics.

Yeah and everybody knows drunk people and alcoholics never hurt anybody or caused any problems right? :roll: No alcoholic ever died of alcohol poisoning right? yeah so lets just legalize all the smack and crack and whack. It's bad enough they had to repeal prohibition. Given all the problems in society alcohol causes, I can't believe anybody would consider legalizing any drug as addictive as Heroin. And just because something is "pure" does not prevent anybody from overdosing on it and dying. Plenty of people have died of alcohol poisoning or liver failure from alcohol they bought perfectly legally.

[Edit] Moron.

[Edit again] And to dmcowen674: If they were only hurting themselves, fine. I'd have no problem with it. But we'd have to ship them all off to some island in the middle of the ocean somewhere where they couldn't affect normal people. It's all the other people and kids who have to share the same roads, schools, offices, space, and breathe the same air as the wastoids we should worry about.

Not true. Simply look at Dry Counties Vs Wet Counties.

The Dry Counties have more of a problem with Alcohol because of human nature.

People want more what they can't have.

Geez, thats twice in one thread!

 

[Stunt]

OK guys...cool yourselves down for two seconds.
There's a lot of info that foxnews left out, my buddy showed me this article the other day.
Please read before continuing discussion as it is in line with what BC is thinking.
link

That said, i do not support the program, but you guys are making arguements off false/limited info on this topic.

 

[imported_Condor]

Originally posted by: ahurtt

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: ahurtt

Originally posted by: skull

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Not a bad idea. They will kill themselves on it, problem solved :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

I love the lack of knowledge about drugs the government has forced on people. If you research herion just a little bit. You would learn that people only die from overdoses and diseases. If herion was pure and people could easily learn how to use it overdose would be eliminated. If addicts could get clean needles there would be alot less disease.
People have been known to use herion for decades with no problems. Mostly doctors addicted to morphine. They can get a clean source and know how to do it. Herion turns into morphine as soon as it hits the bloodstream.

The government should not be paying for someones fix that is ridiculous. It needs to be legalized. So it becomes pure and cheap enough for addicts to use like most everyday alcoholics.

Yeah and everybody knows drunk people and alcoholics never hurt anybody or caused any problems right? :roll: No alcoholic ever died of alcohol poisoning right? yeah so lets just legalize all the smack and crack and whack. It's bad enough they had to repeal prohibition. Given all the problems in society alcohol causes, I can't believe anybody would consider legalizing any drug as addictive as Heroin. And just because something is "pure" does not prevent anybody from overdosing on it and dying. Plenty of people have died of alcohol poisoning or liver failure from alcohol they bought perfectly legally.

[Edit] Moron.

[Edit again] And to dmcowen674: If they were only hurting themselves, fine. I'd have no problem with it. But we'd have to ship them all off to some island in the middle of the ocean somewhere where they couldn't affect normal people. It's all the other people and kids who have to share the same roads, schools, offices, space, and breathe the same air as the wastoids we should worry about.

Not true. Simply look at Dry Counties Vs Wet Counties.

The Dry Counties have more of a problem with Alcohol because of human nature.

People want more what they can't have.

Where are you getting your facts from? I'd love to look as you say. By dry counties do you mean those in which only the sale of alcohol is prohibited or that it is illegal to even drink alcohol? If you mean the latter, then I would argue that the reason dry counties have more problem is because any time anybody drinks, it is breaking the law. Each time a person gets drunk or has a glass of wine, it is against the law and thus a crime. Does it mean more people are drinking more volume and more frequently than non-dry counties? Probably not.

There may not be more alcohol consumed, but people in dry counties drive to the county line, get drunk and then drive miles back home. The kill rate has to be exacerbated.

 

[imported_Condor]

Originally posted by: Stunt
OK guys...cool yourselves down for two seconds.
There's a lot of info that foxnews left out, my buddy showed me this article the other day.
Please read before continuing discussion as it is in line with what BC is thinking.
link

That said, i do not support the program, but you guys are making arguements off false/limited info on this topic.

I hope it works. It may lead to legalization here. I don't use drugs, don't even smoke, but I do know when we are wasting lives and resources doing it wrong.