Valve says DRM is stupid, but Microsoft still doesn't get it

[mindcycle]

Valve is a wonderfully open company?in many cases, direct questions sent to the publisher will be answered by a member of the creative team within hours. One gamer recently e-mailed Valve and asked why he saw EA's logo on a commercial for Left 4 Dead: he bought the game via Steam but didn't want to support EA after the Spore DRM debacle. He got a reply from a managing director at the company, Gabe Newell, that was to the point: EA only handles distribution for the physical product, and Valve thinks most DRM is "just dumb." Related Stories * Prep the zombie axe: Left 4 Dead up for pre-purchase * Valve to release Steam Cloud this week * Left 4 Dead: welcome to the zombie-killin' social * Valve eats brains of Turtle Rock, makers of Left 4 Dead

"Left 4 Dead is developed entirely by Valve. Steam revenue for our games is not shared with third parties. Around the world we have a number of distribution partners to handle retail distribution of our games (i.e. make discs and boxes). EA is one of those partners," Newell wrote. In other words, if you buy Left 4 Dead through Steam, EA doesn't see any of your money. This should be good news for gamers who want to slaughter some zombies but don't want to break their EA boycott.

Newell doesn't have kind words for the use of digital rights managements. "As far as DRM goes, most DRM strategies are just dumb. The goal should be to create greater value for customers through service value (make it easy for me to play my games whenever and wherever I want to), not by decreasing the value of a product (maybe I'll be able to play my game and maybe I won't)," he wrote. "We really really discourage other developers and publishers from using the broken DRM offerings, and in general there is a groundswell to abandon those approaches."

While Steam is a step in the right direction, giving gamers the ability to play games on multiple systems without having to worry about losing discs or CD keys, some gamers have reported issues getting their games to work in offline mode, and worry about Valve shutting down the servers at some point in the future. Piracy is a complex issue with no easy answer, but what's clear is that gamers are less and less willing to put up with intrusive DRM technology in their games, but there doesn't seem to be much of a movement to lessen its use among game publishers.

What the industry has to understand is that gamers have the upper hand, as they can simply go to the torrents for a free version of each game that includes no DRM. Until publishers do more to welcome their legitimate customers as friends instead of treating them as potential pirates, piracy will continue to eat at profits and morale.

I really agree with the last paragraph. Those Ars guys really do get it.

Read the rest of the article here: http://arstechnica.com/news.ar...ill-doesnt-get-it.html

 

[Molondo]

Thats pretty awsome.

On a side note: I never really had trouble with DRM until i bought crysis. "please insert original cd into the drive". I totally pulled a captain picard face palm.

 

[Bateluer]

I was going to post this article too, but got side tracked with a customer. I cannot post on AT all day.

I agree with Gabe's statements about DRM whole heartedly, BUT if he thinks DRM is idiotic, then why does he allow SecuRom on Steam titles? Perhaps its not entirely his decision, but then he should be strong lobbying against it.

 

[BladeVenom]

I also saw this somewhere else and was about to post it. The place I saw it linked to the original letter, http://ih8evilstuff.livejournal.com/16992.html

 

[chizow]

The irony and hypocrisy of it all is that Steam is DRM. What Gabe really means is all forms of DRM except for Steam are stupid. And for those of you who don't think Steam is DRM, try selling or transferring rights for a game you've purchased off Steam. You can't.

 

[Bateluer]

Originally posted by: chizow
The irony and hypocrisy of it all is that Steam is DRM. What Gabe really means is all forms of DRM except for Steam are stupid. And for those of you who don't think Steam is DRM, try selling or transferring rights for a game you've purchased off Steam. You can't.

Gabe is referring to SecuRom, Starforce, and TAGES, not the online authentication done by Steam. Steam is an example of an excellent and mostly effective DRM solution. Stardock's Impulse and Valve's Steam are models that the rest of the industry should follow, preferably releasing their titles on Impulse or Steam since we don't want a thousand different distro apps running.

 

[Lonyo]

steam is great according to gabe because valve make lots more money and get to control resales (block them). It's brilliant for valve. Not brilliant for consumers, including those who might not even want to sell, but might be part of a family where kids in to college and then have problems if they have siblings who also want to play steam games. Valve just managed to sugar coat their system and release it at the right time to carry a wave of goodwill.

 

[BladeVenom]

Originally posted by: chizow
The irony and hypocrisy of it all is that Steam is DRM. What Gabe really means is all forms of DRM except for Steam are stupid. And for those of you who don't think Steam is DRM, try selling or transferring rights for a game you've purchased off Steam. You can't.

He said most are dumb, not all of them, "most DRM strategies are just dumb."

You can transfer games to a different account. There are restrictions though.

Sure Steam could be considered DRM, but many people like Steam and find it beneficial. I don't know anyone who thinks a game is better because it has Starforce or SecuROM.

 

[irishScott]

Originally posted by: Lonyo
steam is great according to gabe because valve make lots more money and get to control resales (block them). It's brilliant for valve. Not brilliant for consumers, including those who might not even want to sell, but might be part of a family where kids in to college and then have problems if they have siblings who also want to play steam games. Valve just managed to sugar coat their system and release it at the right time to carry a wave of goodwill.

I fail to see a problem here. Most modern CD based games require some form of online authentication (at least for multiplayer). So you'd end up buying multiple copies anyway.

Steam works well for most people, otherwise it wouldn't be popular. I haven't had a single problem with it thus far.

As for selling the game, that's easy. Just don't buy the game off of steam. I haven't sold a single one of my games to date anyway.

 

[Maximilian]

Originally posted by: BladeVenom

Originally posted by: chizow
The irony and hypocrisy of it all is that Steam is DRM. What Gabe really means is all forms of DRM except for Steam are stupid. And for those of you who don't think Steam is DRM, try selling or transferring rights for a game you've purchased off Steam. You can't.

He said most are dumb, not all of them, "most DRM strategies are just dumb."

You can transfer games to a different account. There are restrictions though.

Sure Steam could be considered DRM, but many people like Steam and find it beneficial. I don't know anyone who thinks a game is better because it has Starforce or SecuROM.

I do, theres people around the internet that like DRM and praise it because they dont have to get up off their fat arse and find the CD to put in the drive :laugh: You may find some of them on amazon, their comments ususally have "3 of 134 people found this useful" attached to them. But they do exist unfortunately!

 

[venkman]

Ummm...STEAM = DRM

It's quite a bit easier for me to sell my copy of Spore than it is for me to sell my copy of Left 4 Dead

 

[zerocool84]

I don't like DRM that has install limits. That's just retarded. I have never had problems with Steam as I don't buy too many games and the games I do buy are of high quality. I'm very picky with my games.

 

[n7]

I love the irony in this.

Steam is indeed basically DRM...

 

[Dumac]

For all of the people who think they are oh-so-clever so saying "Steam is DRM!", Newell said that himself in the interview. He's basically saying he thinks most forms of DRM (Starforce, SecuROM, etc) are dumb and "broken", while his form of DRM (Steam) actually gives some utility to the customer who is subjugated to it.

Yes, Steam = DRM. That is what Newell basically said. It's not a smart observation, not is it ironic in anyway.

 

[IEC]

If I could transfer games from one account to another on Steam I would be quite happy. Since I have two accounts and the games don't overlap...

 

[Liet]

Originally posted by: MaximilianI do, theres people around the internet that like DRM and praise it because they dont have to get up off their fat arse and find the CD to put in the drive :laugh:

What happens in 3 years when I'm dying to play a Homeworld 2 Computer match, but I can't because the CD I legitimately bought years ago has been damaged by years of use?

 

[IEC]

Originally posted by: Liet

Originally posted by: MaximilianI do, theres people around the internet that like DRM and praise it because they dont have to get up off their fat arse and find the CD to put in the drive :laugh:

What happens in 3 years when I'm dying to play a Homeworld 2 Computer match, but I can't because the CD I legitimately bought years ago has been damaged by years of use?

That's why you cloneCD it or use a nocd patch.

 

[Xylitol]

I love Steam personally

 

[rodrigu3]

Originally posted by: n7
I love the irony in this.

Steam is indeed basically DRM...

There's no irony. He said "most," not all.

 

[pontifex]

I'm sorry, but Valve is supporting EA by using them as a distributor. Valve is paying them to distribute the game and therefore supporting them. If you support Valve you support EA.

I just think its funny because peple boycott EA but love Valve, but are still supporting EA indirectly.

 

[chizow]

Originally posted by: Dumac
For all of the people who think they are oh-so-clever so saying "Steam is DRM!", Newell said that himself in the interview. He's basically saying he thinks most forms of DRM (Starforce, SecuROM, etc) are dumb and "broken", while his form of DRM (Steam) actually gives some utility to the customer who is subjugated to it.

Yes, Steam = DRM. That is what Newell basically said. It's not a smart observation, not is it ironic in anyway.

Actually I was going by the title only, as I know Gabe is a bit of a blowhard when it comes to DRM and Piracy. But after actually reading the article, my statement stands, as Steam directly contradicts all the benefits he lists as positives for his form of DRM, Steam.

From the article:

• Newell doesn't have kind words for the use of digital rights managements. except for his own
  
  "As far as DRM goes, most DRM strategies are just dumb. The goal should be to create greater value for customers the resale value of your game decreases to zero as soon as you enter the CD key in Steam, is that creating value?
  
  through service value (make it easy for me to play my games whenever and wherever I want to)because downloading over the span of hours is easier than installing off DVD in 5 minutes?,
  
  not by decreasing the value of a product (maybe I'll be able to play my game and maybe I won't)again, the resale value is zero if you buy off Steam, so the value of the product has clearly decreased
  
  he wrote. "We really really discourage other developers and publishers from using the broken DRM offerings, and in general there is a groundswell to abandon those approaches.Steam is so great, its the only form of DRM and distribution that gives you less, charges you just as much, but somehow makes you think you get more"

The greater irony is that "dumb" forms of DRM that do the same thing as Steam (CD authentication, online activation) is widely criticized even when they're less intrusive and less restrictive in general.

 

[Aikouka]

You can buy the normal optical media-based game and still use Steam (or rather, you have to)... you're not stuck with digital downloads. In fact, digital downloads is just another aspect of it and not something I think you can really discount the DRM aspect of the software for.

 

[Genx87]

I think Gabe is right in that Steam does give a benefit to customers. Your games are always available via a download. I never have to worry about losing a disc or key or both. For this they can implement DRM that actually benefits me. No more worrying Ill log into a MP game to find out my cd-key is already in use.

I have used steam since 2004 and love it. Wish all of my games were able to be run through Steam.

 

[PingSpike]

Of course "steam is DRM". But in a world where every game is trying to DRM fuck you, at least steam gives you a reach around and uses some lube.

 

[Dumac]

Originally posted by: chizow
But after actually reading the article, my statement stands, as Steam directly contradicts all the benefits he lists as positives for his form of DRM, Steam.

From the article:

• Newell doesn't have kind words for the use of digital rights managements. except for his own
  
  "As far as DRM goes, most DRM strategies are just dumb. The goal should be to create greater value for customers the resale value of your game decreases to zero as soon as you enter the CD key in Steam, is that creating value?
  
  through service value (make it easy for me to play my games whenever and wherever I want to)because downloading over the span of hours is easier than installing off DVD in 5 minutes?,
  
  not by decreasing the value of a product (maybe I'll be able to play my game and maybe I won't)again, the resale value is zero if you buy off Steam, so the value of the product has clearly decreased
  
  he wrote. "We really really discourage other developers and publishers from using the broken DRM offerings, and in general there is a groundswell to abandon those approaches.Steam is so great, its the only form of DRM and distribution that gives you less, charges you just as much, but somehow makes you think you get more"

The greater irony is that "dumb" forms of DRM that do the same thing as Steam (CD authentication, online activation) is widely criticized even when they're less intrusive and less restrictive in general.

You're magnifying a lot of insignificant issues and completely ignoring some other issues.

For me, and probably most of the people who buy games of Steam, losing resale value isn't really an issue. I would never sell one of my PC games, nor would I ever buy a used PC game. However, since the rights to games on Steam are tied to your account, in actuality you could just sell you account if you want to sell the games on it.

Also, by "making it easy to play my games whenever and wherever I want to", I believe Newell is talking about the ease and ready-to-go attributes of Steam. For example, whenever I switch to a new rig, it's a pain in the ass to reinstall all of my old games by DVD or CD. It takes a ton of menial manual effort, switching CDs and entering CD keys over and over again. It's much easier to just load up steam and let my games download while I go to work/school/life.

So yes, I believe Steam does add some general utility.

And although it changes the way resale of your games might work, you could still sell games on Steam if you really wished.