Validate my Component Choices for a Gaming Rig

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walkure

Senior member
Dec 24, 2004
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A lot of people say to go with the 3000 or 3200 because it can easily OC to 3500 levels...

I'm just wondering how high can the 3500 get? I'm leaning toward purchasing that instead of 3000/3200 because the price isn't THAT much higher and I hardly ever ever upgrade, so I want something that will perform at the highest level for the longest. Thanks.

EDIT: Well, I've seen a lot of people at 2500-2600MHz on their 3500's... so I guess I sorta have an idea about it.
 

JBDan

Platinum Member
Dec 7, 2004
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3500+ I have seen stable on many threads @ 2.610 that is if the user is honest when he/she says "stable" Mine hits 2.475 Prime95 stable
 

Starbuck1975

Lifer
Jan 6, 2005
14,698
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I guess my greatest concern in overclocking is the stability issues. Are the performance gains of overclocking say a 3200 to 3500 performance really worth the cooling and constant monitoring considerations when you start talking about overclocking..that and my understanding is that no matter how well you monitor your system, overclocking will significantly deteriorate the life of your components because of the stress you put on the system.
 

BOLt

Diamond Member
Dec 11, 2004
7,380
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The rig that I ordered yesterday is as follows:

ASUS A8N-SLI Deluxe Motherboard
AMD Athlon 64 3000+ (Winchester) Processor
Arctic Silver 5 Thermal Compound
Zalman Aluminium/Copper LED CPU Heatsink/Fan
Crucial Ballistix 512MB DDR PC-3200 RAM (2)
BFG GeForce 6800 GT OC PCI Express Video Card
Maxtor DiamondMax 10 200GB Hard Drive
Lite-On 16X DVD-ROM Drive (Black)
NEC 16X Double Layer DVD±RW Drive (Black)
SONY Floppy Drive (Black)
Enermax Noisetaker 470W Power Supply
Antec Super LANBOY ATX Mini Tower Case
Vantec Nexus Fan/Light Controller (Black)
Vantec Spectrum PCI Fan Card

$1400 in total.


I've done over two months of research, so you can trust that these parts have been scrutinized time and time again. For your situation, if you're not getting a whole new system like I did, then here's what you need to be concerned with from what I can tell that you say you need to purchase for an upgrade: motherboard, CPU, RAM, GPU, hard drive, PSU (?).


Here are my suggestions for you with subsequent explanations:

ASUS A8N-SLI Deluxe Motherboard. It is nForce 4 SLi compatible, and in my opinion, this or the DFI nF4 SLi-D/R are the only options for motherboards right now on the AMD64 platform. $199.99 shipped from ZipZoomFly.com

AMD Athlon 64 3200+ (Winchester) Processor. Best price/performance ratio, and you may be able to find the OEM version of it on MonarchComputer.com for $179.00 shipped. If it is still $195.00 shipped, like I think it is, then you may be better off going with the 3000+.

Arctic Silver 5 Thermal Compound. You cannot do without this. $9.99 shipped from ZipZoomFly.com

Zalman Aluminium/Copper or Pure Copper (LED) CPU Heatsink/Fan, or comparable product. The one I got, model #: CNPS7000B-AlCu LED, has an LED fan and is much lighter than the copper version, though it cooler less efficiently. I am a frequent LAN-goer, so my rig is very light. The tradeoff is that it will not OC as much as I'd like it to. If you have a computer with a static location ([joke]no static electricity, mind you[/joke]), then go ahead and get the pure copper version of this, but make sure the model # says "CNPS7000B-", or "CNPS7700B-"; not "CNPS7000A-", or "CNPS7700A-". Alternatively, you could try Swiftech, Thermalright's XP-90/120 (again, size and cost are factors), or Thermaltake.

BFG GeForce 6800 GT OC PCI Express Video Card. $399.99 shipped from Chumbo.com. OC'ed right out of the box with a lifetime warranty. Unless Gainward makes a 6800 GT OC PCI Express, BFG will be the king of 6800 GTs.

Maxtor DiamondMax 10 200GB Hard Drive. Speeds rivaling WD Raptors with more than twice the capacity for about 4/5 of the price. A steal at ZipZoomFly.com for $121.00 shipped. NCQ-, SATA, and SATA II-compatible.

Enermax Noisetaker 470W Power Supply. 20- or 24-pin motherboard compatible, supports SATA, cheaper than the comparable NeoPower or OCZ PowerStream. Get it for $80.99 shipped from ZipZoomFly.com. Whatever you get, make sure it's 450W or higher (NVIDIA's official minimum requirement for their 6800 series).

Other possible upgrades include:

Vantec Nexus Fan/Light Controller (Black). I purchased an Antec Super LANBOY, which is notorious for less-than-adequate ventilation, so I got a fan controller to hopefully ramp up the fan speeds, as well as the extra 80 or 92mm top vent fan that I plan on modifying the case to fit.

Vantec Spectrum PCI Fan Card. I highly recommend this for aesthetic looks, but more importantly, the 6800 series runs exceptionally hot, and the BFG 6800 GT OC PCI Express GPU has been known to run as hot as 80C under full load. I bought this for the aforementioned reasons and again, because the Antec Super LANBOY has poor ventilation (from what I've heard).


Those are my suggestions, which were all very well thought out and implemented in my own rig. From the other posts I read on this thread, I would like to say that the vanilla 6800 is a piece of crap -- get a 6600 GT, or better yet a 6800 GT. The minimum PSU wattage needs to be 350W for the 6600 GT, and 480W for the 6800 series, as quoted from NVIDIA, though 450W will make do for most. Socket 754 is a waste of time and money -- I can't stress this enough. A major exception would be the DFI LANPARTY nF3 250gb coupled with an Athlon 64 3400+, though I still feel that it is sorely outdated, if not already outdated by socket 939. Newcastle is a waste of time and money as well. Go with Winchester for the AMD64 3000+ through 3500+. Any higher than 3500+, and you're talking MAJOR bucks and different CPU core manufacturers (Clawhammer and Sledgehammer, which are both extremely respectable). The 90nm manufacturing process is undeniable. Even Intel, slow, lumbering, monopolizing, awful, awful Intel has moved to the 90nm process in their Prescott line, though Prescotts still run unacceptably hot. AMD's advantages are cooler CPUs, which enable very flexible OC'ing, and price. If you construct an AMD64 rig, please do yourself a favor and take advantage of this. OC'ing is not terribly difficult and it is one of the most economical actions that you can take with regards to computer hardware.

Hope this helps.

Good Luck.
 

BOLt

Diamond Member
Dec 11, 2004
7,380
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By the way, the stability issues are not a concern with proper cooling. Try Arctic Silver 5, a quailty heatsink/fan and several 80mm fans or a couple 120mm fans.

You really have to experience the overclocking capabilites of AMD's Athlon 64 CPUs for yourself. What's more, there are different kinds of overclockers, from the conservative, to the casual, to the serious, to the hardcore, and extreme overclockers, there is an overclocking solution for you. Just take a little bit of time to research it. I think you'll find yourself benefiting, not only in terms of the economic benefit, but in terms of the "fun" benefit. It's a bug, you know -- the overclocking, the modding, the gaming, building, the programming. Computers have so many aspects of them that all you have to do is have a little bit of ambition, initiative, time, and inspiration to become a computer enthusiast who works with the computer -- rather than at it.


lol, i'm about to get all teary-eyed :).

EDIT: Sorry for the double post.
 

Starbuck1975

Lifer
Jan 6, 2005
14,698
1,909
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Well Bolt you have definitely given me some more things to think about...your upgrades are a bit outside of my budget, as I currently have a wishlist loaded on NewEgg based around a 754 processor for around $800.

While the SLI capabilities on the ASUS board are tasty, I really have no intention of ever slapping two video cards into my system, as much of a gamer's dream as that may be...so perhaps that is more motherboard then I really require. I have been a dedicated Abit user for my last three builds, but the MSI Neo boards seem to always fall at the top of the recommendation list.

I am curious as to why you think 764s are a waste of money, as others have said that the exact opposite.
 

BOLt

Diamond Member
Dec 11, 2004
7,380
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AMD itself has said that socket 939 is the future. If you go with socket 754, you're indenturing yourself to a socket that is already behind in the running. Yes, computer technology moves at such a pace that you're behind the very leading edge at the very moment that you buy something, but socket 754 limits you to nForce3 and severely limits your upgrade possibilities. With socket 939 and PCI Express compatibility, you can upgrade your CPU and/or your motherboard, when you see the need, without having to buy a new motherboard as well. The major benefit of nF4 is the features it includes: Shader Model 3.0 support, a major advantage for NVIDIA vs. ATI; built-in hardware firewall, which virtually negates the need for a CPU-taxing software firewall; PureVideo technology, for enhanced multimedia applications; PCI Express support -- the future of GPUs; plenty of native RAID options; NCQ and SATA 3 Gb/s support and more. Check out all the benefits at NVIDIA.com.

All of the suggestions that I mentioned amount to about $1050.
 

JBDan

Platinum Member
Dec 7, 2004
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Originally posted by: BOLt
AMD itself has said that socket 939 is the future. If you go with socket 754, you're indenturing yourself to a socket that is already behind in the running. Yes, computer technology moves at such a pace that you're behind the very leading edge at the very moment that you buy something, but socket 754 limits you to nForce3 and severely limits your upgrade possibilities. With socket 939 and PCI Express compatibility, you can upgrade your CPU and/or your motherboard, when you see the need, without having to buy a new motherboard as well. The major benefit of nF4 is the features it includes: Shader Model 3.0 support, a major advantage for NVIDIA vs. ATI; built-in hardware firewall, which virtually negates the need for a CPU-taxing software firewall; PureVideo technology, for enhanced multimedia applications; PCI Express support -- the future of GPUs; plenty of native RAID options; NCQ and SATA 3 Gb/s support and more. Check out all the benefits at NVIDIA.com.

All of the suggestions that I mentioned amount to about $1050.

Nice rig you got coming boLt. Plz post some bench's for us when you are able :)
 

Starbuck1975

Lifer
Jan 6, 2005
14,698
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It appears MSI is about to launch an nForce4 Neo Platinum board in both SLI and non-SLI flavors. So going with your recommendations, I think the system I may ultimately settle on will look something like the following:

K8N Neo4 Platinum
AMD Athlon 64 3200+, 512KB L2 Cache, Socket 939 64-bit Processor (or 3500+ if the price comes down when the K8N Neo4 becomes availiable at retail)
Mushkin Dual Pack 184-Pin 1GB(512MBx2) DDR PC-3200
Maxtor Ultra Series Kit 120GB 7200RPM IDE Hard Drive, Model L01P120
WinFast PX6800 GT TDH PCI-E

As I dont have prices on some of these components since they are about to launch, my guess is such a setup will come in at around $1100, probably down to the $900 range by February/March.
 

JBDan

Platinum Member
Dec 7, 2004
2,333
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Originally posted by: Starbuck1975
It appears MSI is about to launch an nForce4 Neo Platinum board in both SLI and non-SLI flavors. So going with your recommendations, I think the system I may ultimately settle on will look something like the following:

K8N Neo4 Platinum
AMD Athlon 64 3200+, 512KB L2 Cache, Socket 939 64-bit Processor (or 3500+ if the price comes down when the K8N Neo4 becomes availiable at retail)
Mushkin Dual Pack 184-Pin 1GB(512MBx2) DDR PC-3200
Maxtor Ultra Series Kit 120GB 7200RPM IDE Hard Drive, Model L01P120
WinFast PX6800 GT TDH PCI-E

As I dont have prices on some of these components since they are about to launch, my guess is such a setup will come in at around $1100, probably down to the $900 range by February/March.

I like it!
 

dswesse

Member
Jan 7, 2005
32
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Originally posted by: coejus
450 watts would be overkill for that system. 350 would be fine. 400 would be more than enough and leave him room for upgrades.

400 would not necessarily be enough. The recommended rated amperage on the 12V line is 22Amps when running the Athlon64 processors. Since 99% of all current power supplies in the market are 12V 1.0 compliant and not 2.0, you will rarely find a power supply with 22A on the 12V line with a total rated power of less than 500 Watts. This may currently be an issue with my own new system as I am having trouble powering it with a name brand 420Watt supply that only has 18A on the 12V line.

Also, whoever said that the NForce4 and PCIe is the future isn't exactly correct from what I've read. From AMD's projected marketing/development, the Nforce4 chipset is going to be moved to the developer/ultra enthusiast range and the nForce3 (socket 939) is the future of the desktop market. Socket 939 is what they plan on making the dual core chips for where the Socket 940 will have multiple chip support. And I haven't read much at all that will tell you that PCIe is awesome or even worth the upgrade. With the only exception being the SLI stuff, there is no massive amount of increased performance over the 8X AGP slots. the PCIe bus bandwith is not even close to being fully utilized, but neither is the 8X AGP's. It has even been speculated that before PCIe even becomes slightly accepted, a new AGPe form will come out and things will become totally messed up. Unless you really need the SLI and feel like dropping a grand on new vid cards, stick with the flagship 939 line and a good AGP card. Also, unless things have changed recently, you may have issues finding good PCIe cards. When THG did a review on them they ended up purchasing them from germany because they couldn't find them here.
 

Starbuck1975

Lifer
Jan 6, 2005
14,698
1,909
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That is why I couldnt price an NForce4 or PCIe system, because those components are not currently available on any of the online retailers I typically use for upgrades, and the websites that they are available at cost a premium.

I may back down from the PCIe system and stick with a solid 939 system with a strong AGP 6800 GT card...I need to do a little more research and reading on the benefits and concerns of both options against their relative costs and performance.


I actually just priced out another configuration on nForce3, and it comes to almost $1000 to the penny:

MSI "K8N Neo2 Platinum" NVIDIA nForce3 ULTRA Chipset Motherboard For AMD Socket 939 CPU
Leadtek nVIDIA GeForce 6800 GT Video Card
AMD Athlon 64 3200+, 512KB L2 Cache, Socket 939 64-bit Processor
Mushkin Dual Pack 184-Pin 1GB(512MBx2) DDR PC-3200
Maxtor Ultra Series Kit 120GB 7200RPM IDE Hard Drive, Model L01P120

Of course if I am patient and wait a few weeks, the Athlong 64 3500+ Socket 939 may come down a bit as well.

Well if anything, this thread will give other people looking to build a gaming rig several different configuration options, with the benefits of each and a price point.
 

Starbuck1975

Lifer
Jan 6, 2005
14,698
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I am close to choosing my components for this upgrade, but I wanted to ensure that I have enough power to drive my new system. The total components in my system after I conduct my upgrade will probably be the following

DVD+RW PLEXTOR PX-504A
Kenwood 72x CD-ROM
CASE KINGWIN KT-436WM with respective case fans (one mounted on top, one to the front, one in the rear)
MSI "K8N Neo2 Platinum" NVIDIA nForce3 ULTRA Chipset Motherboard For AMD Socket 939 CPU
Leadtek nVIDIA GeForce 6800 GT
AMD Athlon 64 3200+, 512KB L2 Cache, Socket 939
Mushkin Dual Pack 184-Pin 1GB(512MBx2) DDR PC-3200
Maxtor Ultra Series Kit 120GB 7200RPM IDE Hard Drive, Model L01P120

The motherboard has onboard audio, so I do not intend to install a sound card. I may install a video capture card as well to convert VHS tapes to DVD. Also this component list will probably remain the same in terms of it being socket 939, although I may choose a different motherboard, video card manufacturer or upgrade the processor to a 3500+. Whichever processor I choose, it will be an AMD Winchester, and I intend to go 6800 GT on my card, definitely AGP (I decided against PCI-e or SLI).

The power supply I am currently running is a Antec 430W Power Supply, Model "TRUE430". Can I salvage this power supply for my new system, or do I need more power?

 

Edward Lee

Senior member
Dec 11, 2004
477
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Bolt,
You ordered an SLI with a 3000 Winchester CPU? What a waste.
You would have been better off spending the money on a 6800 Ultra. That 1.8 GHZ CPU will never be able to handle SLI in full load.
Also you would've been better off buying Value RAM than throwing you money away on those Balistix. And you should have bought 2 160 Gig HD's for the money you paid for the 1 200 Gig.

You wasted your time if it took you a month to research that system.
You obviously don't know too much about system building to offer any good advice.

Oh, and that case is ugly.

And if I sound mean. That's cause I am. I had some sour grapes this morning. :|
 

DoC91383

Member
Dec 27, 2004
94
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I'm pretty sure that you can still reach your max cpu oc potential even with value ram like mushkin as long as you run dividers. Thats what i have been told over and over.
 

acorcoran

Member
Jan 9, 2005
34
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I am brand new to the board and I have to admit that this thread is excellent. I have seen hundreds of similar threads about what computer should I build, what components do I need, however, this is of top quality. I have only built on computer in my extensive it background and I've all but decided that my next computer will be built (just so I can get my hands dirty again).

I have really enjoyed reading this thread and I hope to continue hearing the intelligent conversations that have been posted in here. It is one of the few threads that is not filled with "Oh man that sucks, you should get <xxx>."

Great job and thanks for the information. I look forward to seeing the final configuration Starbuck and thanks bolt for the comprehensive list for those of that are new to the community to see what a good configuration would be.

Aaron
 

Starbuck1975

Lifer
Jan 6, 2005
14,698
1,909
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I'm pretty sure that you can still reach your max cpu oc potential even with value ram like mushkin as long as you run dividers. Thats what i have been told over and over.

I am not sure who this question was directed towards...are you suggesting that I go with the value Mushkin RAM with the other components I specified, that I will have to run dividers...if so, I am not familiar with what dividers are and if I should take them into consideration.

I also posted an earlier question on my current power supply, an Antex TRU-430W...any comments on to whether I can salvage this power supply for my new system, again given the components I listed? Thanks!!!
 

Starbuck1975

Lifer
Jan 6, 2005
14,698
1,909
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Just found out some good information on the motherboard forums...have to dig quite a bit to find nuggets, but it is helpful.

Apparently MSI boards dont play nice with ANTEC power supplies, so I may have to consider getting a new power supply or changing my motherboard selection.

Also, the MSI boards do not come recommended to those who perhaps do not understand or have experience with the ins and outs of motherboard tweaking...as my last three builds have been around ABIT boards, perhaps I should consider the ABIT or ASUS route.
 

Starbuck1975

Lifer
Jan 6, 2005
14,698
1,909
126
Well I still havent decided between socket 754 and 939, but I have noticed a lot of other threads making cases for building a system based on each respective architecture...this debate seems to emerge in every thread where someone is asking for components recommendations. From a price perspective, the following two configurations both come in at around the $1000 mark:

Socket 754:
ASUS "K8N-E Deluxe" NVIDIA nForce3 Chipset Motherboard For AMD Socket 754
Leadtek nVIDIA GeForce 6800 GT
AMD Athlon 64 3400+ Newcastle
Crucial 184 Pin 512MB DDR PC-3200 x 2 (1GB total)
Maxtor Ultra Series Kit 120GB 7200RPM SATA Hard Drive

Socket 939:
MSI "K8N Neo2 Platinum" NVIDIA nForce3
Leadtek nVIDIA GeForce 6800 GT
AMD Athlon 64 3200+ Winchester
Crucial 184 Pin 512MB DDR PC-3200 x 2 (1GB total)
Maxtor Ultra Series Kit 120GB 7200RPM SATA Hard Drive

Should you choose to go PCI-e/SLI on your motherboard choice, the price jumps by an additional $300.
This is due to replacing the K8N Neo2 Platinum with the highly recommended ASUS A8N-SLI Deluxe and swapping out the Leadtek GeForce 6800 GT AGP with its PCI-e sibling.


So the price point for socket 754 &amp; 939 based on an AGP video card is around the same.
Upgrading to socket 939 and PCI-e is a bit more expensive, but based on predictions in the market, if I choose to wait till the Spring for my upgrade, going this route will probably come down to the $1000 range.



 

Starbuck1975

Lifer
Jan 6, 2005
14,698
1,909
126
Sorry Overkill, didn't notice that my thread had bumped back up to the front of the heap.

I decided to hold out until the summer, as PCI-E became prevalent shortly after I posted my original message.

I will probably go AMD Athlon 64 socket 939, as the prices on those processors are comperable to anything in the socket 754 realm.

I doubt I will ever utilize SLI given the cost of video cards these days, but I am not sure if I want to go the PCI-E or AGP route...because PCI-E is the flavor of the month, it seems like all of the newer motherboards are PCI-E...and to take advantage of newer chipsets like nForce4, it seems like you have to go PCI-E.

I am also waiting on reviews of the new Abit Fatality boards, as all of my prior rigs have been Abit, and I have been really happy with their motherboards overall.

Most have cautioned that if you get into the waiting game with PC upgrades, you could justify waiting indefinitely, as the tech is always changing...but if I do decide to go PCI-E and nForce4, I may wait a month or two for prices to come down a bit.
 

Starbuck1975

Lifer
Jan 6, 2005
14,698
1,909
126
I had already settled on the 6800 GT. I tend to prefer fewer rather then more bells and whistles on a motherboard...why I tend to stick with Abit.

I'll probably post a follow-up component list once I get ready to buy...I have my eye on a couple of new cases as well, with the Chenbro Game Bomb 2 at the top of my list.

I keep adding crap to my rig, which is blowing my $1000 budget cap :)