Valedictorian's Speech About Christ Prompts Controversy

[imported_mitchnozka]

Originally posted by: engineereeyore

Originally posted by: mitchnozka
Captive? I'm sure they were free to get up and leave if they so desired.

In summation, most of the comments on this topic here illustrate what Jesus said, that those who follow him will be mocked and persecuted, but that we (Christians) should rejoice if this happens.

Did you listen to the speech? I listened to it (albeit doing a couple things at the same time), and she mentions once that some will go to Heaven and some to Hell. If you don't believe in it, then it's no harm according to you.

Mitch

Sure, they were free to leave. Leave a ceremony they came for because of a talk they didn't come for. :roll:

Fact of the matter is very simple. A person going to heaven or hell has absolutely no bearing on a graduation ceremony, therefore there was 100% zero need to have a talk that in no way, shape, or form correlated to anything that was going on. As I said before, if the person talking wishes to thank God or Christ for being able to graduate or for the day or whatever, fine. But as soon as you start lashing out judgments or discoursing his teachings, you've crossed the line.

Sad thing is, the girl doesn't have any freakin clue what's she talking about anyway.

What kind of talk do people want? What is the point of a valedictory speech? I would think it is to encourage. I then commend her for saying what she did.

What basis do you say that she doesn't have a clue about what she talked about?

Mitch

 

[imported_mitchnozka]

Originally posted by: Leros

Originally posted by: mitchnozka

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: mitchnozka

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: thecoolnessrune

Originally posted by: Leros
I went to a small town graduation recently (public high school) and the ceremony included two prayers and every speech talked about God and Jesus. My friend and I were talking about during the ceremony and everybody around us gave us horrible looks like we were the devil.

It bothered me a bit, but there are so many Christians here that I have gotten used to being saturated with it.

And is it that sickening man? Look at what us Christians have to put up with here

Again, quoting a Mod:

"No. Deal with it."

AnandTech Modertator

I'm a Christian and there is no way I would want that to be the subject of a valedictorian's speech. It's not the right place. period.

What is the 'right' place? Why was the podium there the 'wrong' place?

Mitch

Because it was a captive audience that was not there for that purpose. They were there to see friends and family graduate from high school, not be lectured and preached to that they were going to go to hell unless they converted to a particular religious faith. It's inconsiderate actions like these that give Christians a bad name in the first place. She could have spent the whole time thanking her god for her acheivements and most of the audience would have just slept through it. But starting threatening fire and brimstone on the "infidels" and you cross a line. If they had wanted to hear that, they would have gone to church.

Captive? I'm sure they were free to get up and leave if they so desired.

In summation, most of the comments on this topic here illustrate what Jesus said, that those who follow him will be mocked and persecuted, but that we (Christians) should rejoice if this happens.

Did you listen to the speech? I listened to it (albeit doing a couple things at the same time), and she mentions once that some will go to Heaven and some to Hell. If you don't believe in it, then it's no harm according to you.

Mitch

How would you feel if some Muslim kid spoke about Islam at your graduation? It doesn't matter if you like it or not, its just not the time or place.

I would disagree with it. It would make for great discussion afterwards.

Mitch

 

[HombrePequeno]

A commencement speech is definitely not the place for a 17 minute sermon. I have no problem with someone mentioning how their faith helped them along throughout high school (one of the speakers did during my commencement) but I'd be mighty pissed if that's essentially all they talked about for 17 minutes and also told me I was going to hell. I'm surprised nobody walked out.

 

[Oakenfold]

Originally posted by: Isla
LOL, it's a story out of Jacksonville, FL. That's how SOME folks are up there. You have to drive at least south to Tampa before you reach civilization again. It's not exactly a melting pot up there.

Let me help you by editing your comment.
Yes I would agree that quite a bit of jax is protestant and the good ol' boy persona does exist to a certain degree here as well as any other part of the United States.

My own religious beliefs are irrelevant to this thread, what matters is separation of church and state was not preserved. If the speech was delivered at a private Christian high school it would have been fine, however other's rights were infringed on as a "captive audience" as others have stated.

 

[mercanucaribe]

Originally posted by: Toasthead

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: thecoolnessrune
I dont get all the fuss... again.. Everyone wants to fuss about something. If hearing those words "Jesus saves" causes you to melt or something then sure, it shouldn't be allowed. But comon people, no one died, no heads assploded, no one bled out the ears after hearing it. They are WORDS. Do you people have nothing else to bitch about than something someone else says? It's her speech. Let her say whatever the heck she wants. If you are so traumatized by the words that it might cause permanent scarring to what brain you have, then leave. That simple.

Separation of church and state. It was a public high school.

The uproar about this is notable, but nothing compared to the uproar that would have been if she made a speech proclaiming Islam as the path to salvation.

I would have personally walked out than be force fed any religious BS during a graduation ceremony at a public school.

This has nothing to do with seperation of church and state...do you even know what that means? In no way was the school promoting one religion over another. this was one students opinion.

The event was sponsored by the school. Her speech was sponsored by the school.

 

[FDF12389]

Originally posted by: KCfromNC

Originally posted by: lupi
BTW, I hate to break it to you but state and local goverments have already been making rulings on the teaching of evolution/creation.

Yeah, and the courts have been consistently ruling that creationism is a religious belief which has no place being taught in public school classrooms. This goes against your peculiar interpretation of the establishment cause of the 1st amendment so I'm sure you'll have some way to explain how these republican-appointed activist judges don't know what they're doing.

To be fair neither theory can be proved or disproved 100%(IRC). So why teach one and not the other?

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: FDF12389

Originally posted by: KCfromNC

Originally posted by: lupi
BTW, I hate to break it to you but state and local goverments have already been making rulings on the teaching of evolution/creation.

Yeah, and the courts have been consistently ruling that creationism is a religious belief which has no place being taught in public school classrooms. This goes against your peculiar interpretation of the establishment cause of the 1st amendment so I'm sure you'll have some way to explain how these republican-appointed activist judges don't know what they're doing.

To be fair neither theory can be proved or disproved 100%(IRC). So why teach one and not the other?

 

[engineereeyore]

Originally posted by: mitchnozka
What kind of talk do people want? What is the point of a valedictory speech? I would think it is to encourage. I then commend her for saying what she did.

Are you serious? Do I really even need to answer that question? It's a commencement ceremony. Do you know what commencement means? It's used to signify the conclusion of one thing the beginning of something else, in this case, a new life as a high school graduate. It's got jack nothing to do with heaven or hell. The speech should have been focus on commencement, on their life as high school students and the new life that awaits. She was nominated as valedictorian, not preacher. Look up valedictory, what a valedictorian is supposed to deliver, and get back to me when you see it having anything to do with heaven or hell.

What basis do you say that she doesn't have a clue about what she talked about?

Mitch

The Bible, for starters. Saying all that is required to enter heaven is faith is like saying all that is required to make cookies is flour. Why don't you tell me everything that is required of someone in order to make it to heaven? I'll give you a hint, it's more than just faith. Then why don't you tell me all about hell and exactly what it is and who's going there. As soon as you, or this girl, can answer that question, I'll retract my comment. Until then, my comment stands. She has no idea what's she talking about.

 

[error162]

:disgust: I guess if the speach had a been about the prophet Mohommad, That would of been ok eh??

 

[BigJ]

Originally posted by: mercanucaribe

Originally posted by: Toasthead

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: thecoolnessrune
I dont get all the fuss... again.. Everyone wants to fuss about something. If hearing those words "Jesus saves" causes you to melt or something then sure, it shouldn't be allowed. But comon people, no one died, no heads assploded, no one bled out the ears after hearing it. They are WORDS. Do you people have nothing else to bitch about than something someone else says? It's her speech. Let her say whatever the heck she wants. If you are so traumatized by the words that it might cause permanent scarring to what brain you have, then leave. That simple.

Separation of church and state. It was a public high school.

The uproar about this is notable, but nothing compared to the uproar that would have been if she made a speech proclaiming Islam as the path to salvation.

I would have personally walked out than be force fed any religious BS during a graduation ceremony at a public school.

This has nothing to do with seperation of church and state...do you even know what that means? In no way was the school promoting one religion over another. this was one students opinion.

The event was sponsored by the school. Her speech was sponsored by the school.

The speech was not being endorsed by any government institution. All the school did was give her a window to say whatever the hell she wants. She could've talked about how much she likes anal sex for a half hour. Would you then say that the HS is endorsing sodomy?

 

[Toastedlightly]

Originally posted by: engineereeyore

Originally posted by: mitchnozka
What kind of talk do people want? What is the point of a valedictory speech? I would think it is to encourage. I then commend her for saying what she did.

Are you serious? Do I really even need to answer that question? It's a commencement ceremony. Do you know what commencement means? It's used to signify the conclusion of one thing the beginning of something else, in this case, a new life as a high school graduate. It's got jack nothing to do with heaven or hell. The speech should have been focus on commencement, on their life as high school students and the new life that awaits. She was nominated as valedictorian, not preacher. Look up valedictory, what a valedictorian is supposed to deliver, and get back to me when you see it having anything to do with heaven or hell.

What basis do you say that she doesn't have a clue about what she talked about?

Mitch

The Bible, for starters. Saying all that is required to enter heaven is faith is like saying all that is required to make cookies is flour. Why don't you tell me everything that is required of someone in order to make it to heaven? I'll give you a hint, it's more than just faith. Then why don't you tell me all about hell and exactly what it is and who's going there. As soon as you, or this girl, can answer that question, I'll retract my comment. Until then, my comment stands. She has no idea what's she talking about.

"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." John 3:16. Seems like faith is all that is needed.

 

[blackllotus]

Originally posted by: FDF12389

Originally posted by: KCfromNC

Originally posted by: lupi
BTW, I hate to break it to you but state and local goverments have already been making rulings on the teaching of evolution/creation.

Yeah, and the courts have been consistently ruling that creationism is a religious belief which has no place being taught in public school classrooms. This goes against your peculiar interpretation of the establishment cause of the 1st amendment so I'm sure you'll have some way to explain how these republican-appointed activist judges don't know what they're doing.

To be fair neither theory can be proved or disproved 100%(IRC). So why teach one and not the other?

Because evolution has been proven beyond any reasonable doubt. Denying evolution is like denying that this guy mugged an old lady. Its possible that the video was entirely faked but is that a reasonable theory?

 

[alkemyst]

Man people are all over the place in this thread.

Usually a valdictorian speech is not 'governed' by the school, however; it can be esp. at a private one.

Separation of Church and State doesn't mean religion discussion is not allowed, it means religion discussion cannot dictate the laws. People don't understand that a lot.

 

[Babbles]

I think it may have been an out of place topic for a commencement ceremony, but on the other hand I don't think it was totally inappropriate. As long as the school did not dictate that she perform that particular speech and she did so on her own accord then I don't think people should have a problem with it.

She was in a position to explain her personal views. Sure people may not like or approve of those views, but I hardly think it is controversial for somebody to take advantage of a situation and do what she did.

 

[engineereeyore]

Originally posted by: Toastedlightly
"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." John 3:16. Seems like faith is all that is needed.

Yes, and he that believeth In Christ shall be baptized, receive the Holy Ghost, keep the commandments, endure to the end, etc.

Now gee, that sounds like more than just faith, doesn't it?

 

[911paramedic]

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: thecoolnessrune
I dont get all the fuss... again.. Everyone wants to fuss about something. If hearing those words "Jesus saves" causes you to melt or something then sure, it shouldn't be allowed. But comon people, no one died, no heads assploded, no one bled out the ears after hearing it. They are WORDS. Do you people have nothing else to bitch about than something someone else says? It's her speech. Let her say whatever the heck she wants. If you are so traumatized by the words that it might cause permanent scarring to what brain you have, then leave. That simple.

Separation of church and state. It was a public high school.

The uproar about this is notable, but nothing compared to the uproar that would have been if she made a speech proclaiming Islam as the path to salvation.

I would have personally walked out than be force fed any religious BS during a graduation ceremony at a public school.

Now that the church and state thing out of the way, which doesn't really apply. (She is not a governing official.)

She went on for 17 minutes! What if she gave a 17 minute speech about how she loves to scrapbook, how she does it, and you should too?

The real point is, IMHO, is she should have given a speech not a sermon.

The mods here would have recognized the problem and moved her from the "graduation" forum to the "religious" forum in less than 17 minutes, I can tell you that much. :thumbsup:

 

[Red Dawn]

You'd think that since she's a Valedictorian she'd understand that if people wanted to hear that BS they'd just go to Church or turn on the 700 club.

 

[Looney]

Originally posted by: michaels
Can people not find other things to get all worked up over? Maybe if we had more morality and respect in schools kids wouldn't be worthless sh1theads nowadays.

And i'm assuming you should be the example that others should be following? You're a happy married person with wonderful, perfect kids, right?

And BTW, how did you get through the censors when i can't even quote you?

 

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: error162
:disgust: I guess if the speach had a been about the prophet Mohommad, That would of been ok eh??

That's what I was thinking. I wonder how many of the "it's great that she did that" crowd would have approved of the above?

(I bet there would be hyprocrits abound)

 

[alien42]

just goes to show intelligence and book smarts have no relation :laugh:

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: Shawn
I hope people booed. I would have.

Thank your parents.

 

[3NF]

Someone needs to sit down with her and tell her we were genetically engineered by aliens.

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: Engineer

Originally posted by: error162
:disgust: I guess if the speach had a been about the prophet Mohommad, That would of been ok eh??

That's what I was thinking. I wonder how many of the "it's great that she did that" crowd would have approved of the above?

(I bet there would be hyprocrits abound)

I don't think it would matter. Most are either saying religion had no place at the ceremony or that the speech was too long, etc.

I think if there was no rules placed on what could be discussed and for how long then there was no foul.

I personally believe that as valedictorian that person should have whatever set time to say whatever they want since they are being forced to. If they have to read a script then they should have the ability to decline wanting to speak at all.

15mins is hardly a lot of time anyway. What probably was the root of this is jealousy that their little retards Jack and Jill couldn't even muster up a B average and now they have to wait to take pictures of them getting their diploma while some yuppity-yup brays on.

 

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: alkemyst

Originally posted by: Engineer

Originally posted by: error162
:disgust: I guess if the speach had a been about the prophet Mohommad, That would of been ok eh??

That's what I was thinking. I wonder how many of the "it's great that she did that" crowd would have approved of the above?

(I bet there would be hyprocrits abound)

I don't think it would matter. Most are either saying religion had no place at the ceremony or that the speech was too long, etc.

The people who are approving of this would almost 100% not approve of this if it had been an Islamic speech. I'm not a betting man but I would "almost" take a bet on that one.

 

[Mani]

Proof that you don't need to be smart to be a valedictorian.