Valedictorian Rips Up Speech And Recites Lord's Prayer

[fskimospy]

I would think that would be obvious.

Naturally i'm referring to the country of Idahoe.

Just kidding, i'm not American so i know all the states and know that countries and states are not the same thing as well as continents and countries are not the same thing.

Just like every other European.

It sounded like you were talking about the US, but the sale of everything in the US would net (verrrrryyy roughly) somewhere around $120 trillion.

 

[Retro Rob]

Anyhow, your post here is completely false. I am an atheist. I could give a flying fart about what a student wants to do. If a student want's to expose a prayer in his personal speech it just shows what they believe only. In my opinion it is not a reflection on the school in any way shape or form. So it matters not if a student has a religious based speech.

Maybe not in your case, but that's why I said some Atheists, which isn't "completely false". I tend to think there's a hint of bigotry in any walk of life.

Now I would have a problem with a faculty member for a public school that is suppose to be secular and spouting off religion in a school sanctioned event. On their own time a faculty member can do as they please with their religious beliefs.

Agreed. I just think there's a time and place for stuff like this, though I don't really care if they thanked anyone. I just think we have more important things for our court system to occupy itself with than making a big issue out of even a factuality member simply thanking God.

Too many big deals are made out of stuff like this. Reminds me of a point Jesus made -- the religious leaders of his day made such a big deal out of observing even the smallest letter of the law to the point of it becoming burdensome to adherents; they were scared to even breathe on the Sabbath.

I feel this kinda stuff reflects that.

So no.. as an atheist I am not a bigot nor feel that students can't shows what THEY as individuals value. Nor would I have a problem if the school offered to teach various religious based history courses, so long as the religious represented was done so based upon he interest level of the student. Meaning if students want to learn about Christianity then have a class for it. If they want to learn about Pastafarism then have a class for it. It is a real simple concept of what separation of church and state means.

I disagree with this. Religious teaching is the job of the parents and Church ... all the religious buildings in this world and they can't educate their own children?

I don't go to school to read the Bible or learn about Jesus -- I go to school to learn how to read, write, etc, and make a living. I go to Church, for instance, to learn religious subjects and to study the Bible.

 

[zinfamous]

Don't know if this still happens these days--though I assume it does in the South--but we had a Bacculaurette ceremony about a week before graduation, or whenever, that was essentially a religious-themed ceremony, or, at least, was respective of such.

same kind of meaningless fluff and banter you get from the real ceremony, but more God. Did this school not have these, or did they, and the student was doing his little "protest of one" where it didn't belong?

 

[raildogg]

How do you know if what you've learned at church is the truth or not? Or is it some agenda laid forward by that particular church? There are so many churches yet society hasn't gotten any better in terms of social problems.

Do people actually practice anything religious or is it an outing on Sundays? Sorry don't want to sound harsh or anything.

It seems like your so-called religious person and your average Joe are the same person. There is no distinction between them. They both behave the same, do the some hypocritical things, yet one goes to church and one doesn't. Just look at these politicians. I am willing to assume that 97% of them are churchgoers. Yet, they are responsible, along with us, for the mess in this country and this world.

 

[davmat787]

Yeah and that's working out so well for England :\

As a conservative, you should not need, nor seek, validation from the government for your religion. Seek freedom to practice to yours and freedom for others to practice theirs, and seek a government that is agnostic to all religious viewpoints.

It is the only way.

 

[zinfamous]

As a conservative, you should not need, nor seek, validation from the government for your religion. Seek freedom to practice to yours and freedom for others to practice theirs, and seek a government that is agnostic to all religious viewpoints.

It is the only way.

that does not adhere to Incorruptible's desire to establish the christian Caliphate.

 

[Retro Rob]

How do you know if what you've learned at church is the truth or not? Or is it some agenda laid forward by that particular church? There are so many churches yet society hasn't gotten any better in terms of social problems.

Do people actually practice anything religious or is it an outing on Sundays? Sorry don't want to sound harsh or anything.

It seems like your so-called religious person and your average Joe are the same person. There is no distinction between them. They both behave the same, do the some hypocritical things, yet one goes to church and one doesn't. Just look at these politicians. I am willing to assume that 97% of them are churchgoers. Yet, they are responsible, along with us, for the mess in this country and this world.

What you say doesn't matter at all. The point is, the Bible is to be read and learned in church and your personal home or personal time.. not in school.

Now, if they want to teach it, that's up to them -- but that isn't the purpose of secular education.

 

[raildogg]

What you say doesn't matter at all. The point is, the Bible is to be read and learned in church and your personal home or personal time.. not in school.

Now, if they want to teach it, that's up to them -- but that isn't the purpose of secular education.

Yeah, when will that happen? Within the next 2000 years? I don't see people taking this so-called religious stuff seriously. They supposedly "learn" their Bible yet they somehow forget about it. And yes, what I say doesn't matter. 🙂 What will happen, will happen.

I'm not worried about secular or non-secular education. Education should be preparing children for life, not one way or the other.

Focusing on whether religion should be taught in schools or not is such a small issue. It really has no meaning. They can teach it all day, it won't make a difference. Look around. Most people consider themselves "religious." Is that making any real change for the better in the world? Real change can happen if people's minds and hearts are changed. Not whether the Bible is allowed in schools or not.

 

[Retro Rob]

Yeah, when will that happen? Within the next 2000 years? I don't see people taking this so-called religious stuff seriously. They supposedly "learn" their Bible yet they somehow forget about it. And yes, what I say doesn't matter. 🙂 What will happen, will happen.

I'm not worried about secular or non-secular education. Education should be preparing children for life, not one way or the other.

Focusing on whether religion should be taught in schools or not is such a small issue. It really has no meaning. They can teach it all day, it won't make a difference. Look around. Most people consider themselves "religious." Is that making any real change for the better in the world? Real change can happen if people's minds and hearts are changed. Not whether the Bible is allowed in schools or not.

True, but it's really silly and frankly asinine to even suggest religious people don't take their beliefs seriously. Why do you think some are fighting against secularism? They're taking it to the extreme. Others try their best to imitate Jesus or whomever they believe in. We can't perfectly do that, so you are bound to see slip-ups.

You're right, people do need to change from the inside out, but it's not so much the fault of the teaching as it is the teachers. I've seen people use the Bible and Koran to promote hate and bigotry. I've seen others use them as a tool to unite people. Religion isn't the problem as much as it is its teachers.

 

[raildogg]

True, but it's really silly and frankly asinine to even suggest religious people don't take their beliefs seriously. Why do you think some are fighting against secularism? They're taking it to the extreme. Others try their best to imitate Jesus or whomever they believe in. We can't perfectly do that, so you are bound to see slip-ups.

You're right, people do need to change from the inside out, but it's not so much the fault of the teaching as it is the teachers. I've seen people use the Bible and Koran to promote hate and bigotry. I've seen others use them as a tool to unite people. Religion isn't the problem as much as it is its teachers.

Ok, a belief is a static thing. In daily living, a lot of things occur and throw the person a curve ball. It then important for he/she to be attentive and actually practice it.

Please explain how one fights secularism. And if that can even be considered religious.

As for imitating Jesus, that is so absurd. We don't know the man at all. We have read about him; read what others have wrote about him. That is all. How can one supposedly imitate Jesus and still have real meaning? I often see signs that say "Follow Jesus" or "Christ is Lord." These may sound good but lets go deeper. What is behind these slogans? How can blind people follow the light (Christ)? Doesn't the blindness need a cure first?

Yes, the teachers and their followers are partly responsible for the present condition of the world. A teacher can be a pastor, monk, guru, a writer, a therapist or whatever. Then you have his followers - just relying on the teacher's words as if they are the absolute truth. Just look at the mass protests in the MidEast sometimes. Just blindly following some so-called religious leader who himself is following some other supposed leader. On and on.

 

[bradly1101]

"Big Atheism's" "barrage" sure must've been powerful. They seem to have more power than "Big Milk". Didn't they take away Christian bench rights too?

As soon as we recognize one religion we must recognize all. Otherwise it may appear to be discriminatory. It makes more sense to leave them out.

Keep education logical please.

 

[Incorruptible]

As a conservative, you should not need, nor seek, validation from the government for your religion. Seek freedom to practice to yours and freedom for others to practice theirs, and seek a government that is agnostic to all religious viewpoints.

It is the only way.

I would be alright if the government were to treat all religions the same but that doesn't happen though. When the government refers to Evangelical Christians as extremists while ignoring other religions it's a big problem.

The best solution would be to have a government that is restricted by the Constitution.

 

[ch33zw1z]

I would be alright if the government were to treat all religions the same but that doesn't happen though. When the government refers to Evangelical Christians as extremists while ignoring other religions it's a big problem.

The best solution would be to have a government that is restricted by the Constitution.

You're right. Christians are constantly being catered to. It's sad.

 

[Incorruptible]

You're right. Christians are constantly being catered to. It's sad.

Have you watched the news? There are more attacks on Christians and attempts to pander to other religions.

Islam gets far more catering than Christianity.

 

[colonelciller]

"Big Atheism's" "barrage" sure must've been powerful. They seem to have more power than "Big Milk". Didn't they take away Christian bench rights too?

As soon as we recognize one religion we must recognize all. Otherwise it may appear to be discriminatory. It makes more sense to leave them out.

Keep education logical please.

+1

 

[SheHateMe]

Islam gets far more catering than Christianity.

That's because Christians only want to eat Chik-Fil-A. I wouldn't cater one of their events either. Mediterranean food is much better.

 

[Incorruptible]

That's because Christians only want to eat Chik-Fil-A. I wouldn't cater one of their events either. Mediterranean food is much better.

🙂 I will rephrase my statement. There is far more pandering to Islam than Christianity.

 

[Brainonska511]

🙂 I will rephrase my statement. There is far more pandering to Islam than Christianity.

Sure... Might want to loosen that tin foil hat.

 

[bradly1101]

That's because Christians only want to eat Chik-Fil-A. I wouldn't cater one of their events either. Mediterranean food is much better.

Ooh yeah. If we all ate a Mediterranean diet imagine how healthy we'd be. It would even drive down the cost of health care.

Oops I didn't mean to stray from this ever so compelling topic. Oh yeah, we were discussing the right to recite a Wiccan curse at a graduation.

 

[CountZero]

🙂 I will rephrase my statement. There is far more pandering to Islam than Christianity.

Not a chance. It makes the news (or at least the conservative "news") when Islam gets even the tiniest fraction of the pandering Christianity gets away with.

The problem is Christians fought for their pandering and got more than was truly appropriate. Now other religions are trying to use those same advantages and Christians want to have their cake and eat it too. That's not the way it works in this country. Whatever pandering Christians get so too do the Muslims. Whatever restrictions placed on Muslims are to be placed on Christians as well.

 

[ch33zw1z]

Have you watched the news? There are more attacks on Christians and attempts to pander to other religions.

Islam gets far more catering than Christianity.

No, I don't watch Fox News regularly.

 

[Retro Rob]

Oh, and Christians never do this to opponents of their beliefs? hardly a fair sentiment, since it happens both ways.

Since you haven't defined preacher, I'll take the liberty of assuming you mean anyone of the Christian belief system that's attempting to spread the word.

My personal experiences vary. I've been called a bigot, heathen, asshole to name a few. Sometimes it was warranted due to my attitude towards the person I was having a discussion with. Sometimes it was out of frustration at me standing my ground. Sometimes it's cause the other person is an asshole too.

The only people that have come to my door since I've moved out of the city area are JW's. They have been polite, so no fun 🙂 No Protestants, Mormons, Methodists, or Baptists.

Cool, I'm a bad liar. I never claimed to be a good one, and don't go around trying to lie...especially on a forum. What's the point?

Has every encounter I've ever had been negative? Hardly. My stance remains firm. Respect for those who can practice what they preach, which seems to be fewer and fewer people these days from where I'm sitting.

If you want to continue to disgress to name calling, feel free. I won't be joining you. Claiming you know my experiences without really knowing my experiences is...well....silly. I grew up Protestant, I spent countless hours debating both sides. First as a believer, now as a non-believer. But I kept the moral framework and try to apply it to my life, and teach my kids the same thing.

Edit: Matthew 10:5-14 from the NIV edition. First hit on google.

5 These twelve Jesus sent out with the following instructions: “Do not go among the Gentiles or enter any town of the Samaritans. 6 Go rather to the lost sheep of Israel. 7 As you go, proclaim this message: ‘The kingdom of heaven has come near.’ 8 Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse those who have leprosy,[a] drive out demons. Freely you have received; freely give.

9 “Do not get any gold or silver or copper to take with you in your belts— 10 no bag for the journey or extra shirt or sandals or a staff, for the worker is worth his keep. 11 Whatever town or village you enter, search there for some worthy person and stay at their house until you leave. 12 As you enter the home, give it your greeting. 13 If the home is deserving, let your peace rest on it; if it is not, let your peace return to you. 14 If anyone will not welcome you or listen to your words, leave that home or town and shake the dust off your feet.

I'm not Jewish. Get off my lawn. These verses don't say what you think they say, but that's the best part about religious documentation, it's debateable!

Actually, I wasn't intending to call you a liar -- I wanted to show that I didn't really believe you. I am sure you've been ripped by a religious person before, but I wasn't buying, for one second, your point about them calling you a bigot from simply saying no.

I don't agree with all religion either, but I think the likelihood of you being criticized in the manner you described isn't likely unless its retaliatory (which doesn't excuse it, though).

Glad you cleared that up.

 

[bradly1101]

Fox News appears to be pure, partisan propaganda. Even if your rights are nowhere near being denied you, Fox will try to make you feel like they are in a way that distracts you so that you don't see how they're trying to raise your anger as much as possible about the 'other side'. Is that respecting rights?

Edit: I remember when Stephen Colbert first began his show (which satires Fox News) he said, "I'm not going to read the news to you, I'm going to feel the news at you! "

If I ever watch it that's all I see, attempts to push my emotional buttons to forward an agenda.

Keep my news unemotional please. (yes I turn the channel)

 

[Incorruptible]

Not a chance. It makes the news (or at least the conservative "news") when Islam gets even the tiniest fraction of the pandering Christianity gets away with.

The problem is Christians fought for their pandering and got more than was truly appropriate. Now other religions are trying to use those same advantages and Christians want to have their cake and eat it too. That's not the way it works in this country. Whatever pandering Christians get so too do the Muslims. Whatever restrictions placed on Muslims are to be placed on Christians as well.

What pandering does Christianity get? All I see are attacks on them.

And Islam gets a lot of pandering such as more political correctness and free speech exemption for its critics like the film maker.

 

[thraashman]

What pandering does Christianity get? All I see are attacks on them.

And Islam gets a lot of pandering such as more political correctness and free speech exemption for its critics like the film maker.

The film maker committed fraud and was on probation for previously committing fraud when he committed it again. You seem to want him to get an exception from fraud laws because he made a film critical of Islam. This is you again wanting Christians to get a legal exemption from laws to get their way.