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VA Doctor Sticks it to the Man

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He has a duty to provide the same quality of care to whomever becomes his patient or otherwise assist the patient in finding a provider who can.
I don't see the two as mutually exclusive. Doctors can't have a political voice? In a democracy? He harmed his patients by doing this? I have no place identifying with a heroic, wounded soldier, but I'd have total respect for a doc who doesn't pander in opposition to his own beliefs.
 
Are you suggesting that ethics in regards to doctors should apply differentially to whether a person is likeable?

My doctor told me he's moving to Canada if Trump wins. It was a joke, we had a laugh. Has nothing to do with ethics. Doctors are allowed to joke just like everyone else. Ethics problem is prescribing drugs to Medicare patients while getting a percentage of drug cost as kickback. Which is the law now, so maybe go bark up that tree.
 
I don't agree with this statement. This is human fear of the other for which scientific evidence has suggested is stronger in conservatives than in liberals, but not only is it universal, there is more diversity within conservatives and liberals than there is difference between the average conservative and average liberal. In either case, I personally think our society is increasingly normalizing this way of thinking for each group.
It's always unfortunate when the liberal political views of a Stanford professor providing them with socialized health care are not to the patient's liking. Fortunately, free market has a solution: FOAD.
 
It's always unfortunate when the liberal political views of a Stanford professor providing them with socialized health care are not to the patient's liking. Fortunately, free market has a solution: FOAD.

Do you imagine that I am against socialized healthcare?
 
I don't agree with this statement. This is human fear of the other for which scientific evidence has suggested is stronger in conservatives than in liberals, but not only is it universal, there is more diversity within conservatives and liberals than there is difference between the average conservative and average liberal. In either case, I personally think our society is increasingly normalizing this way of thinking for each group.
I don't see the disagreement. I don't see how universality affects what I said. All I said was that the danger of demonizing the other whether universal or not, increases everybody's fear levels increasing the danger in turn. The only important factor is who you identify as the other, not how different or similar that other may actually be.

The real problem, of course, is not that we are different, but that we are all the same and don't want to know it.
 
I don't see the disagreement. I don't see how universality affects what I said. All I said was that the danger of demonizing the other whether universal or not, increases everybody's fear levels increasing the danger in turn. The only important factor is who you identify as the other, not how different or similar that other may actually be.

The real problem, of course, is not that we are different, but that we are all the same and don't want to know it.

I don't buy that we're "all the same." Sorry. I agree with many of your observations but I also think you tend to oversimplify human nature.
 
I don't see the disagreement. I don't see how universality affects what I said. All I said was that the danger of demonizing the other whether universal or not, increases everybody's fear levels increasing the danger in turn. The only important factor is who you identify as the other, not how different or similar that other may actually be.

The real problem, of course, is not that we are different, but that we are all the same and don't want to know it.

Yeah it turns out I didn't really read much of your post at all and assumed things based on your "conservative brain defect" postings in the past. Sometimes I lose sight of just how much I've missed when my attention is split. In this case, I missed badly.
 
Yeah it turns out I didn't really read much of your post at all and assumed things based on your "conservative brain defect" postings in the past. Sometimes I lose sight of just how much I've missed when my attention is split. In this case, I missed badly.
NP. I do it all the time too.
I don't buy that we're "all the same." Sorry. I agree with many of your observations but I also think you tend to oversimplify human nature.
When I say we are all the same I don't mean we are all identical. Some people are good at math, some not so much. We don't have identical DNA. What I mean is in the things that we describe as different about us are insignificant in comparison to how we are similar. I mean also, that the things about others we do not like and want to differentiate ourselves from we do so because when we acted like that in the past we were told being like that isn't good. This then raises the question as to why we do not see our similarities and wish to deny them. I believe it is because we learned to hate ourselves when we discovered we were like that. Once this split goes up where the good self denies the bad self, we cease to be whole and mentally healthy. There is no bad self, only the belief that there is. That belief is buried unbelievably deep. I would not push you to see what I am saying but I think that dealing with this truth is essential for the attainment of full self respect. Saying that does not mean I have done it. you could say it's a suspicion I have. There is, I believe, an emotional experience possible for anyone that turns the complexities of everything into something profoundly simple. For example, there is only love.

When you look at the deepest philosophies of life and all the major religions I think you will find one truth staring you in the face. It is that loving and being loved are one and the same thing. The lover and the beloved are One. This is the Alpha and Omega of things. Opposites resolve at a higher level of understanding where the act of understanding is the act of being.
 
Do you imagine that I am against socialized healthcare?
I strongly suspect so.
https://www.fedsdatacenter.com/federal-pay-rates/index.php?y=2016&n=strong,+eric&l=palo+alto&a=&o=
In any case, the guy is a Stanford trained doctor who is also assistant professor there, making a lousy $213K working for VA in Palo Alto, CA, where median home price is well over $2M, and doctors can make far more than what VA pays him. You want to give him sh!t about a funny picture? I am sure he doesn't care too much.
P.S. dude has a really good youtube channel:
https://www.youtube.com/user/drericstrong/videos
 
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NP. I do it all the time too.

When I say we are all the same I don't mean we are all identical. Some people are good at math, some not so much. We don't have identical DNA. What I mean is in the things that we describe as different about us are insignificant in comparison to how we are similar. I mean also, that the things about others we do not like and want to differentiate ourselves from we do so because when we acted like that in the past we were told being like that isn't good. This then raises the question as to why we do not see our similarities and wish to deny them. I believe it is because we learned to hate ourselves when we discovered we were like that. Once this split goes up where the good self denies the bad self, we cease to be whole and mentally healthy. There is no bad self, only the belief that there is. That belief is buried unbelievably deep. I would not push you to see what I am saying but I think that dealing with this truth is essential for the attainment of full self respect. Saying that does not mean I have done it. you could say it's a suspicion I have. There is, I believe, an emotional experience possible for anyone that turns the complexities of everything into something profoundly simple. For example, there is only love.

When you look at the deepest philosophies of life and all the major religions I think you will find one truth staring you in the face. It is that loving and being loved are one and the same thing. The lover and the beloved are One. This is the Alpha and Omega of things. Opposites resolve at a higher level of understanding where the act of understanding is the act of being.

I think your insight that self-hate is what propels our hostility and aggression toward others is an important truth. But you're still over-simplifying human nature. We don't all have the same early childhood experiences of learning self-hate. And there is more to emotion than love and hate. There is joy, fear, pity, regret, surprise, indignation, envy, anticipation, disgust, sadness, pride, guilt, longing and shame, to name just a few. And we all vary, considerably, in our experience and expression of those emotions.

So far as self-hate goes, I do not believe that being told, directly, that we are bad, is the primary reason for it, at least not in most cases. It's most likely a failure to meet the expectations that society imposes on everyone. This is especially true in economically successful societies like the one we live in. No one had to tell us that we didn't cut it. They only had to tell us what was expected, and we only had to look at ourselves to realize we didn't measure up. Even people with loving parents can hate themselves.
 
I absolutely like folks with a wry sense of humor. And as far as I'm concerned, Trump deserves every wry humored commentary coming his way because his behavior brings out the best in folks who have this ability.

That Trump is so shallow, so devoid of any sense of self-deprecation, it makes him much more of a target for being caricatured the way he has. He fulfills every which way a caricature is defined anyway. There is nothing that needs to be exaggerated about him because he is an walking talking example of an comical exaggeration.

The guy needs every lesson in humility that he can get. He needs to have humility pounded into him.

It would be really good for whatever he possesses as a soul.

See, he demands respect that he doesn't deserve. He bought his and he definitely didn't earn it the hard way.

So fvck him and his shallow arrogant ass. No respect due and no respect given.
 
I strongly suspect so.
https://www.fedsdatacenter.com/federal-pay-rates/index.php?y=2016&n=strong,+eric&l=palo+alto&a=&o=
In any case, the guy is a Stanford trained doctor who is also assistant professor there, making a lousy $213K working for VA in Palo Alto, CA, where median home price is well over $2M, and doctors can make far more than what VA pays him. You want to give him sh!t about a funny picture? I am sure he doesn't care too much.
P.S. dude has a really good youtube channel:
https://www.youtube.com/user/drericstrong/videos

You should learn to be curious about a person before making assumptions. In this case, you should really really really do so.
 
I don't think he should be fired by any stretch, but that would really depend on whether the VA as an institution takes heat as a result of his actions. If simply telling him about how his actions have potentially caused some VA patients to lose some alliance with the him or the VA as a care provider is successful in causing him to experience remorse, then to me this would be just punishment and sufficient for him to modify his behavior in the future because he has learned from an error. This is assuming that this is an isolated incident, and there have been no prior concerns about his patient care or as a representative of the VA.

@senseamp I'll add some clarity. I don't want to be mean. I found your speculation about me amusing because I am an academic physician (psychiatrist) employed as an assistant professor at a university of similar (though lower) caliber than Stanford and make less money than he does (and I'm assuming also significant difference in benefits, e.g. student loan assistance), although the cost of living in my area is definitely much lower. I don't work at the VA, but have as part of training, and my patients I'm guessing are >50% Medicaid and disability recipients. I could probably sign a contract elsewhere tomorrow that would double my salary if I so chose.

To clarify also, obviously I represent myself as a physician here, so of course I do not believe that doctors should abstain publicly politically. There is some anonymity, but even that isn't absolutely necessary. My posting here does pose an ethical conflict. I hope that I represent my profession in a way that helps others be more open to its potential benefit and gain better ability and insight to care for themselves. I realize that every opinion I express or choose not to could also accomplish the opposite, and I know I haven't always attended to this like I should. I try to make sure, in ways in which I bring up my training and profession, I do so because that knowledge or experience is relevant to the topic at hand. It's important to me to speculate about things and the operations of the mind in others but steer clear of any actual diagnostic or therapeutic activity that might represent psychiatric care. I should not have a relationship here with anyone with whom I have a treatment relationship outside of here. To be honest, I did not have the same ethical awareness when I started posting here, and looking back I'm not sure if I would make the same choice in disclosing my profession again.

My concern with the ethics of this physician's activity are minor, and were largely based on a misunderstanding (that's still not clear to me) thinking he had made this photoshop publicly available to patients. Obviously, it has happened now regardless. Still, his opinions and activities were enacted without anonymity and with representation of being a physician and employed at the VA. I don't seen how these activities relate to being a physician or his employment. Additionally, since they have been exposed to people who have treatment relationships with him and the VA, he has introduced something that does not relate to his treatment and carries potential for harm. This is why I find the action unethical. But I should also underscore that I find the action minor.
 
woolfe9998: I think your insight that self-hate is what propels our hostility and aggression toward others is an important truth. But you're still over-simplifying human nature. We don't all have the same early childhood experiences of learning self-hate.

M: We don't all have the same experiences. We also don't have them in the same degree. I have said, as you probably remember, that we do not know what we feel. I maintain the position that were we to feel what we really feel we would know via real self knowledge that the source of our self hate goes back to one thing, being put down using language, being compared to others with regards to being good or evil. The nature of your good and your evil may not be the same. How you may have reacted or responded may not have been the same. But you will come away from it all with a feeling of self hate that will be impossible to continuously feel and experience as a child. It will be suppressed and some other dual mode of suppression expression will take the place of our original self.

w: And there is more to emotion than love and hate. There is joy, fear, pity, regret, surprise, indignation, envy, anticipation, disgust, sadness, pride, guilt, longing and shame, to name just a few. And we all vary, considerably, in our experience and expression of those emotions.

M: Which of those are natural and which are based on conditioning, comparing oneself to another via thinking about difference. What else is thought but an analysis of difference, the naming of things, memory of associations from the past. What is the experience of experiencing everything as it happens fresh, apperception so filled with the now that thought has no place in it.

What is pity but the recognition of the lack of joy in another. What is regret but a comparison of imagined ideals? What is indignation but the feeling of being disrespected? What is surprise if not the confounding of expectations based on programmed assumptions? The comparative nature of envy should be obvious. What is disgust but the activation of a regurgitation reflex that protects us from poison activated by comparison to it. And so on but let's look at some of the more interesting on your list:

Take what I think is a sequence of emotions that all tie together, fear depression sadness anger rage reliving grief and healing.

Fear, I do not believe, is an emotion. It is the suppression of all emotion, the panic state that happens when feelings long suppressed threaten to come into consciousness. It is the anticipation of death because what is threatening to come into consciousness is the memory of our psychic deaths.

Depression is a low grade form of fear, the dulling of emotion generally, the fear of feeling anything least it lead to the experience of fear. Sadness comes with the onset of the awareness of depression and its consequences, a state of conscious hopelessness. Anger is the defense we throw up when our sadness is triggered. Rage is the expression of anger that leads to conscious awareness of what feeling is being defended, anger's last stand. When it is consciously expressed in a therapeutic setting it can awaken some actual event that can be relived. This will evoke what it is we are really feeling, the re-experience of some childhood traumatic event, and sadness will move into grief. It is the experience and release of grief that heals, because grief is real and direct and experienced with conscious awareness, presence, being there. With the comprehension of the real source of our feelings comes reintegration, the awareness of ones own personal story and of forgiveness. With real comprehension comes the option to let go of the past so that one can consciously experience the present fully without the baggage of the past.

Naturally, there are techniques here and there in the form of religious semi-religious teachings that allow one to step right over all of this and enter such a state directly but there is a lot of bias towards much of that in the west.



So far as self-hate goes, I do not believe that being told, directly, that we are bad, is the primary reason for it, at least not in most cases. It's most likely a failure to meet the expectations that society imposes on everyone. This is especially true in economically successful societies like the one we live in. No one had to tell us that we didn't cut it. They only had to tell us what was expected, and we only had to look at ourselves to realize we didn't measure up. Even people with loving parents can hate themselves.

M: Once self hate is internalized we can take care of the rest, and parental love is all about getting us to conform to standards of good and evil so that by being good we will be protected,
 
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I don't think he should be fired by any stretch, but that would really depend on whether the VA as an institution takes heat as a result of his actions. If simply telling him about how his actions have potentially caused some VA patients to lose some alliance with the him or the VA as a care provider is successful in causing him to experience remorse, then to me this would be just punishment and sufficient for him to modify his behavior in the future because he has learned from an error. This is assuming that this is an isolated incident, and there have been no prior concerns about his patient care or as a representative of the VA.

@senseamp I'll add some clarity. I don't want to be mean. I found your speculation about me amusing because I am an academic physician (psychiatrist) employed as an assistant professor at a university of similar (though lower) caliber than Stanford and make less money than he does (and I'm assuming also significant difference in benefits, e.g. student loan assistance), although the cost of living in my area is definitely much lower. I don't work at the VA, but have as part of training, and my patients I'm guessing are >50% Medicaid and disability recipients. I could probably sign a contract elsewhere tomorrow that would double my salary if I so chose.

To clarify also, obviously I represent myself as a physician here, so of course I do not believe that doctors should abstain publicly politically. There is some anonymity, but even that isn't absolutely necessary. My posting here does pose an ethical conflict. I hope that I represent my profession in a way that helps others be more open to its potential benefit and gain better ability and insight to care for themselves. I realize that every opinion I express or choose not to could also accomplish the opposite, and I know I haven't always attended to this like I should. I try to make sure, in ways in which I bring up my training and profession, I do so because that knowledge or experience is relevant to the topic at hand. It's important to me to speculate about things and the operations of the mind in others but steer clear of any actual diagnostic or therapeutic activity that might represent psychiatric care. I should not have a relationship here with anyone with whom I have a treatment relationship outside of here. To be honest, I did not have the same ethical awareness when I started posting here, and looking back I'm not sure if I would make the same choice in disclosing my profession again.

My concern with the ethics of this physician's activity are minor, and were largely based on a misunderstanding (that's still not clear to me) thinking he had made this photoshop publicly available to patients. Obviously, it has happened now regardless. Still, his opinions and activities were enacted without anonymity and with representation of being a physician and employed at the VA. I don't seen how these activities relate to being a physician or his employment. Additionally, since they have been exposed to people who have treatment relationships with him and the VA, he has introduced something that does not relate to his treatment and carries potential for harm. This is why I find the action unethical. But I should also underscore that I find the action minor.

If a patient doesn't have a sense of humor, he/she can find another doctor. I am sure there are plenty of conservative Stanford medical school professors working at the Palo Alto VA for lousy $213K per year. $213K for a Stanford professor doctor is a joke in this area. Seriously, he could make twice as much in private sector. He wouldn't be able to live in Palo Alto without a sugar momma. Average house mortgage would suck up his entire salary. He probably is staying at the VA for non-financial reasons. It's very possible that getting harassed by the right because he made a joke about Trump might alter his calculus. So if I were his patient, I would call the VA and tell them to not bother this guy.
 
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I'm glad I feel differently.
I am sure the doctor is a nice guy too, from watching his youtube videos. But VA is on thin ice here, given the deal they are getting. He is paying a big opportunity cost to work there. I recognize that he may have broken some rules about political jokes. But they need to decide how far they want to push it before he bails for greener pastures. And I would advise them to suck it up and move on.
 
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