V-6 engines begin long fade into history

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Lifer
Jan 7, 2002
12,755
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http://detnews.com/article/20100107/OPINION03/1070429/V-6-engines-begin-long-fade-into-history



Little engines will be the big stars at next week's North American International Auto Show.
Of the 40 North American and worldwide vehicle introductions scheduled during press preview days Monday and Tuesday, most will be fuel-efficient, stylish vehicles with four-cylinder engines under the hood.
The days of the V-8 in passenger cars are over and things are starting to look bleak for the venerable V-6, as the four-cylinder engine starts to replace it in bigger cars and crossovers. It's a sign of the times: Small engines offer more power than ever before and consumers want a fallback vehicle in case gas prices jump again.
Yes, there will be a couple of mega-powerful V-8 asphalt eaters at the Detroit show, including the 2011 Cadillac CTS-V Coupe and the 2011 Ford Mustang GT 5.0, but, it turns out, destiny has determined that the meek four-banger will inherit the earth.
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When it comes to cars and crossovers, fewer consumers are considering V-6s and carmakers are beginning to exclude them from some lineups. The midsize Hyundai Sonata will no longer offer a V-6, and the future classic 2011 Buick Regal will collect its power from a turbocharged 2-liter engine -- there's no V-6 in its future.
Big engines are going the way of trans fats. Consumers and elected officials have determined they're just not a healthy choice, despite their delicious flavor.
"People appreciate power; in some ways, it will always put a smile on people's faces," said David Champion, senior director of Consumer Reports test division. "But they also appreciate good gas mileage. The memories of $4.50 a gallon gas in 2008 are still very near."
300 horses, just add turbo

Technological advancements have made smaller engines much more efficient and powerful -- a 200-horsepower I-4 doesn't turn many heads today.
And it shouldn't, says Sam Winegarden, GM's powertrain director. Bolt on a big enough turbo and a little 2-liter four-cylinder engine can easily hit 300 horses.
"We've improved the combustion, added direct injection, variable valve timing and lift, turbocharging to these engines, and power and efficiency has improved," Winegarden said.
The reality is carmakers can now create four-cylinder engines that outperform V-6 engines in almost every conceivable way, Champion and other experts told me. Smaller engines allow cars to have lighter suspensions, lighter bodies, lighter brakes and an overall lighter curb weight. Less weight leads to better fuel economy and also creates a vehicle that might get an even smaller engine in the future.
 

PricklyPete

Lifer
Sep 17, 2002
14,582
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Sad...but true. I do think V6's will be around for a LONG time here in America...but the 4cyl will continue to gain popularity.
 

ayabe

Diamond Member
Aug 10, 2005
7,449
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Turbo 4 bangers are replacing V6's, but FI-V6's are replacing V8's.

It's really the demise of the V8 that we should be concerned with, most of the big German V8's are going away in the next few years.
 

PricklyPete

Lifer
Sep 17, 2002
14,582
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Turbo 4 bangers are replacing V6's, but FI-V6's are replacing V8's.

It's really the demise of the V8 that we should be concerned with, most of the big German V8's are going away in the next few years.

What I seem to see is German V12 and V10's going away for supercharged V8's and in turn traditional V8's are being replaced by FI/DI V6's.
 

Pulsar

Diamond Member
Mar 3, 2003
5,224
306
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Someone needs to clue this guy in.

Sure, V-6's in the passenger market are disappearing slowly. But all the stock V-8's in trucks are getting downsized to V-6's. A V-6 with turbo or supercharged puts out enough torque to tow with better fuel economy. Since the truck and large suv market is so big in the US, V-6's aren't going anywhere. The venerable V-6 has a bright future. It just happens to be in larger vehicles. I guess it was a slow news day.
 
Aug 23, 2000
15,509
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Someone needs to clue this guy in.

Sure, V-6's in the passenger market are disappearing slowly. But all the stock V-8's in trucks are getting downsized to V-6's. A V-6 with turbo or supercharged puts out enough torque to tow with better fuel economy. Since the truck and large suv market is so big in the US, V-6's aren't going anywhere. The venerable V-6 has a bright future. It just happens to be in larger vehicles. I guess it was a slow news day.

Whatever. There is always a demand for more towing capacity. I'll take a V8 any day of the week.
Both of my vehicles are V8's and I'd have it no other way. Adding turbo chargers and super chargers to engines make them more complicated and more expensive. Sure you might save a few bucks per fill up, but you're paying for it in the original cost of the car.
 

The-Noid

Diamond Member
Nov 16, 2005
3,117
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V12's are going away for DI V10 on the euros.

Europeans have a different tolerance when it comes to gas prices though. Unless gas goes to $6 I won't be dropping my V10.
 

TraumaRN

Diamond Member
Jun 5, 2005
6,893
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I think the thing you'll see with four cylinder is not just turbo or supercharged...but hybrid...like my Fusion Hybrid, sure you got only 155hp I-4 but you've got a 106hp electric motor, combined you've easily got the power of a V-6, and honestly I can mostly agree with that after driving it for 12000 miles. Lots of low end torque and very smooth acceleration.
 

The-Noid

Diamond Member
Nov 16, 2005
3,117
4
76
Turbo's are fun, but even the best turbo (and I have had a WRX STi) you can still feel the lag and revs running from a slow creep to 2800 to 7000 in a flash.

Give me a big rumbling V8+ any day.
 

HannibalX

Diamond Member
May 12, 2000
9,359
2
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The STi has a four cylinder tubro and it's quite fun to drive. You may want one after all. ;)


But yea, this is the 70's, part 2. Wonder boy isn't helping. :(

It's also not a terribly reliable engine either and it sucks gas like a V8.

2010 STi 17 mpg / 23 mpg / 19 mpg.

There isn't much in the way of low end torque either, peak torque is made at 4000 rpm.

If I can get similar power, similar fuel economy and much higher durability and reliability from a V6 or V8, I'll take the V engine. Plus, V6 and V8 engines don't freaking rattle after 30k miles either.
 

JulesMaximus

No Lifer
Jul 3, 2003
74,580
982
126
Someone needs to clue this guy in.

Sure, V-6's in the passenger market are disappearing slowly. But all the stock V-8's in trucks are getting downsized to V-6's. A V-6 with turbo or supercharged puts out enough torque to tow with better fuel economy. Since the truck and large suv market is so big in the US, V-6's aren't going anywhere. The venerable V-6 has a bright future. It just happens to be in larger vehicles. I guess it was a slow news day.

What's interesting is that traditionally most pickup trucks came with a V6 or straight 6 engine and V8's were only available as an option.
 

desy

Diamond Member
Jan 13, 2000
5,447
216
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I prefer V6 or even a inline 5 simply cause to powerstroke overlap makes them feel smoother.
 

PricklyPete

Lifer
Sep 17, 2002
14,582
162
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The high end ones don't.

This is true...at the moment. The 2.0L Ecotec in the Solstice/Sky/HHR is a peach though and as shown in the other thread about the Regal GS...you'll start seeing it in other cars as well.
 

HannibalX

Diamond Member
May 12, 2000
9,359
2
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What's interesting is that traditionally most pickup trucks came with a V6 or straight 6 engine and V8's were only available as an option.

When, before 1950? Ford ran their 4.9L straight six forever, into the 90s but it's not like it's a small displacement engine, and most straight sixes of that period were about equal in displacement size. So, the cylinder configuration isn't that big of a deal, it's the displacement that matters. If you have a big I6, big V6 or small V8 that all make the same power, fuel economy, etc the configuration isn't really that important.

From the 50s into the 60s most Ford pickups came with the Y block V8 and later Windsor small blocks and FE big blocks. Before that many Ford trucks had the flathead V8.

Most of the big rig truck engines today are straight sixes, and they displace 10, 11 or 12 liters, sometimes more.
 
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ayabe

Diamond Member
Aug 10, 2005
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It's also not a terribly reliable engine either and it sucks gas like a V8.

2010 STi 17 mpg / 23 mpg / 19 mpg.

There isn't much in the way of low end torque either, peak torque is made at 4000 rpm.

If I can get similar power, similar fuel economy and much higher durability and reliability from a V6 or V8, I'll take the V engine. Plus, V6 and V8 engines don't freaking rattle after 30k miles either.

Not reliable compared to what? Both the 2.0 and 2.5 have been around for a while and are fine engines.

Subaru is however a little behind the curve when it comes to their US models, VW/Audi and BMW have been producing turbo cars with super flat TQ curves for a while now.

The new Legacy GT also has a flat curve due to the turbo being relocated, the next STI which might debut sometime next year will undoubtedly have a similar type setup.
 

HannibalX

Diamond Member
May 12, 2000
9,359
2
0
Someone needs to clue this guy in.

Sure, V-6's in the passenger market are disappearing slowly. But all the stock V-8's in trucks are getting downsized to V-6's. .

Really, because Ford dropped the V6 altogether with the latest F150 redesign (the best selling truck of all time). The base engine in the F150 is the 2V 4.6L V8, optional engines are the 3V 4.6 (Mustang engine) and the 3V 5.4L V8. Ford even introduced an even larger 6.1L (could be wrong on displacement) V8 which is in limited runs for 2009 and full runs for 2010+.
 

TraumaRN

Diamond Member
Jun 5, 2005
6,893
63
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Really, because Ford dropped the V6 altogether with the latest F150 redesign (the best selling truck of all time). The base engine in the F150 is the 2V 4.6L V8, optional engines are the 3V 4.6 (Mustang engine) and the 3V 5.4L V8. Ford even introduced an even larger 6.1L (could be wrong on displacement) V8 which is in limited runs for 2009 and full runs for 2010+.

Its a 6.2liter V-8. Initially for the F-150 SVT Raptor.

However there was rumor that Ford wanted to put the Ecoboost V-6 in the F-150 in the future as the base engine, with the V-8 being the optional.
 

HannibalX

Diamond Member
May 12, 2000
9,359
2
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Thanks, I thought 6.1 sounded off, that's the larger Chrysler V8.

Ecoboost is just a bored and stroked Duratec with a couple of turbos on it. Not that I don't think it's a great engine, the Jag V12 for years was two 3.0L Ford Duratecs lined up.

That said, I don't think it will achieve any better fuel economy when used in a truck application than the 3V 4.6 or 5.4. I have visions of endless warranty repairs on burnt up turbos.
 

TraumaRN

Diamond Member
Jun 5, 2005
6,893
63
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Thanks, I thought 6.1 sounded off, that's the larger Chrysler V8.

Ecoboost is just a bored and stroked Duratec with a couple of turbos on it. Not that I don't think it's a great engine, the Jag V12 for years was two 3.0L Ford Duratecs lined up.

That said, I don't think it will achieve any better fuel economy when used in a truck application than the 3V 4.6 or 5.4. I have visions of endless warranty repairs on burnt up turbos.

Yea I can imagine that too, however the Ecoboosted 2.0 I-4 as a base passenger car engine sounds nice...just starting to build this for cars in Europe....200 hp (149 kW) @5500 rpm, 221 lb·ft (300 N·m) @1750-4500 rpm