Utah demands land surrendered from Fedgov by Dec 31

[Atreus21]

And the fact that the Federal government got the land before those states ever existed. The United States didn't bequeath all its land holdings in the west to the states we carved out of the territories.

Isn't that true of all states?

 

[Brainonska511]

Isn't that true of all states?

Not the original 13 states.

 

[Atreus21]

Settle the land, and use State / local police to protect the settlers.

...so instigate a civil war.

 

[Atreus21]

Not the original 13 states.

So the entirety of the Louisiana purchase, then?

 

[fskimospy]

So the entirety of the Louisiana purchase, then?

Yeap. The only territory that was not originally federal government property that I'm aware of would be the original 13 colonies.

 

[piasabird]

I think if they took land back in New York maybe people would get this.

 

[piasabird]

Why is it OK to steal land in western states, but not states on the east coast?

 

[fskimospy]

I think if they took land back in New York maybe people would get this.

You mean if New York took some of the federal government's land?

Or are you saying that Utah deserves to take additional land that was never under the state's control, despite the fact that doing so would explicitly violate Utah's constitution?

Why do you hate state constitutions so much?

 

[IronWing]

Why is it OK to steal land in western states, but not states on the east coast?

It's not okay. That's why Bundy should be prosecuted.

 

[fskimospy]

It's not okay. That's why Bundy should be prosecuted.

I think he's trying to say that by not giving extra land to states in the West that the feds were stealing land from them. Much like if you go to the bank and withdraw $100 if the bank doesn't give you $200 they are stealing from you.

Why is it that the most conservative people seem to always be the ones whining about how people aren't giving them enough free stuff?

 

[Zorba]

Isn't that true of all states?

I think part of it was the land in the western states had valuable resources (gold, silver). And it was just a change in philosophy from the early to late 1800s. IIRC those western states also had much smaller populations when the became states than the eastern states, and therefore much less settlement. I don't think we need to go back now and equalize decisions made hundreds of years ago. Not to mention those states agreed to the terms of become a state when they became a state.

 

[lozina]

Not to mention those states agreed to the terms of become a state when they became a state.

What about the claim by Utah for example that they were promised these lands relinquished to them by the feds?

 

[JEDIYoda]

While this is still fought in the court system I know for a fact that the USA GOVT will be sending a small platoon of oil sensing trucks who will shake the ground to scan for possible oil drilling sites. If they find no oil then UTAH will win.
If they find oil then UTAH will not win in court.

and what`s wrong with that???

 

[TreVader]

We stole this land first!

 

[JockoJohnson]

I think he's trying to say that by not giving extra land to states in the West that the feds were stealing land from them. Much like if you go to the bank and withdraw $100 if the bank doesn't give you $200 they are stealing from you.

Why is it that the most conservative people seem to always be the ones whining about how people aren't giving them enough free stuff?

In this instance it just so happens that, yes, the majority of nitwits complaining about the land are conservatives. I see it more as people who don't understand the situation and/or lack of common sense.

The land never belonged to Utah. It always was federal land and that is how it should stay.

 

[lozina]

The land never belonged to Utah. It always was federal land and that is how it should stay.

Why do you feel so strongly about that?

 

[Brainonska511]

What about the claim by Utah for example that they were promised these lands relinquished to them by the feds?

Then they should have gotten it in writing instead of writing off the claims for the land in their state constitution.

 

[IronWing]

What about the claim by Utah for example that they were promised these lands relinquished to them by the feds?

Here is a legal analysis of Utah's legislation. IMHO, the author is searching for reasons to support Utah's effort however, also IMHO, he had to stretch and flex mightily in his attempt to find a hint of validity to Utah's assertions. The claim of "promises were made" is very weak even in this sympathetic analysis.

 

[Jhhnn]

What about the claim by Utah for example that they were promised these lands relinquished to them by the feds?

Mere allegation w/o substantiation.

OTOH, if it's what you want to believe, you will.

 

[dphantom]

How is a lawsuit a request? A lawsuit is explicitly asking a third party (the courts) to force the legislative and executive branch to take action that they have not taken otherwise. In addition, the only way a lawsuit could be successful is by arguing that federal action (of keeping the land) is not currently in line with the law.

There is no such thing as a lawsuit that is merely a request of the party you are suing. As I said, this is in violation of Utah's constitution and will be tossed for being frivolous.

This is the enabling act and why it had to be put in Utah's constitution.

http://archives.utah.gov/research/exhibits/Statehood/1894text.htm


Request/demand, is fine. I do not think this will be dismissed so easily. Utah probably will not win, but I understand why they want it changed.

 

[Moonbeam]

I think I would want to redress some Indian claims before I get too wound up about Utah.

 

[MiniDoom]

I think I would want to redress some Indian claims before I get too wound up about Utah.

cool, i'm half osage indigenous. Can I come crash at your house?

 

[Jaskalas]

...so instigate a civil war.

Think of it as a game of chicken.

You're thinking our leaders would order a massacre like Tienanmen Square. Is it not a condemnation of our country that our people believe any real dispute would end in 1861 violence?

 

[fskimospy]

This is the enabling act and why it had to be put in Utah's constitution.

http://archives.utah.gov/research/exhibits/Statehood/1894text.htm


Request/demand, is fine. I do not think this will be dismissed so easily. Utah probably will not win, but I understand why they want it changed.

What legal basis would they have to overturn this law and an article of their own constitution?

 

[dphantom]

not a lawyer so will defer to the lawyers who are filing the lawsuit. Whether they have a winnable case or not will be up to the courts to decide. More importantly, why do you care what the people of Utah choose to do? Or are you a Utahan who opposes your States actions?