Utah demands land surrendered from Fedgov by Dec 31

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lozina

lozina

Lifer
Sep 10, 2001
11,711
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http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnew...4-utah-demands-feds-surrender-lands-by-dec-31

... on December 31, the State of Utah is formally demanding that Washington, D.C., relinquish control over more than 30 million acres of valuable land currently controlled by various federal bureaucracies.
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Interesting battle being played out here.

I don't see the Feds willingly giving up all that land, especially considering there is not much the state can do to force the issue. What is probably going to happen is the deadline will pass without any changes and then the state might file some lawsuits.... which will bounce around in courts for who knows how long, maybe with the goal draining the state of it's will to fight over time.

Relevant map of federal land in the west:

map-of-federal-land-in-the-us.jpg
 
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I

inachu

Platinum Member
Aug 22, 2014
2,387
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As far as today's trend of the US govt taking land away in this current GREEN movement in the name of mother nature. Many .orgs are asking donations to help with this green movement and in fact what many are saying is this evicts people from their homes while at the same time making some inner city family feel good they are doing something good for the earth. I hope Utah gets their land back.
 
Brainonska511

Brainonska511

Lifer
Dec 10, 2005
29,595
15,134
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MixMasterTang said:
Probably a lot of national parks and protected land.
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And the fact that the Federal government got the land before those states ever existed. The United States didn't bequeath all its land holdings in the west to the states we carved out of the territories.
 
IronWing

IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
73,576
35,300
136
Just another loud mouthed schmuck using public tax dollars to fuel frivolous lawsuits. Also, the OP's title is inaccurate. The land never belonged to the State of Utah and therefore there is nothing to give back. The federal lands are original public domain belonging to all Americans.
 
lozina

lozina

Lifer
Sep 10, 2001
11,711
8
81
IronWing said:
Also, the OP's title is inaccurate. The land never belonged to the State of Utah and therefore there is nothing to give back. The federal lands are original public domain belonging to all Americans.
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fair point

As for it being frivolous, they point out that these lands were originally promised to the states, but the promise has never been fulfilled.
 
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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
88,238
55,791
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Article III of the Utah Constitution:
The people inhabiting this State do affirm and declare that they forever disclaim all right and title to the unappropriated public lands lying within the boundaries hereof...and that until the title thereto shall have been extinguished by the United States, the same shall be and remain subject to the disposition of the United States
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That means lands not given over to the state of Utah by the federal government when it was formed. Not only is the guy trying to take land that never belonged to Utah, he's attempting to violate Utah's constitution as well.

Lawsuit will be immediately thrown out as frivolous.
 
J

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
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Or what, exactly?

Gotta love the comments from the freedumb loving Merricuhns.
 
dphantom

dphantom

Diamond Member
Jan 14, 2005
4,763
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eskimospy said:
Article III of the Utah Constitution:


That means lands not given over to the state of Utah by the federal government when it was formed. Not only is the guy trying to take land that never belonged to Utah, he's attempting to violate Utah's constitution as well.

Lawsuit will be immediately thrown out as frivolous.
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No. The lawsuit and legislation passed in 2012 effective Dec 31 2014 asks the Federal government to extinguish its rights over the land. There is nothing unconstitutional about asking the Federal government to do so. In fact, it is in support of Utah's constitution. Utah is asking the Federal government to extinguish its claim. Utah is in no way unilaterally seizing the land. That would be unconstitutional.
 
J

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,686
136
dphantom said:
No. The lawsuit and legislation passed in 2012 effective Dec 31 2014 asks the Federal government to extinguish its rights over the land. There is nothing unconstitutional about asking the Federal government to do so. In fact, it is in support of Utah's constitution. Utah is asking the Federal government to extinguish its claim. Utah is in no way unilaterally seizing the land. That would be unconstitutional.
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A lawsuit is not a request. It is a demand.
 
F

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
88,238
55,791
136
dphantom said:
No. The lawsuit and legislation passed in 2012 effective Dec 31 2014 asks the Federal government to extinguish its rights over the land. There is nothing unconstitutional about asking the Federal government to do so. In fact, it is in support of Utah's constitution. Utah is asking the Federal government to extinguish its claim. Utah is in no way unilaterally seizing the land. That would be unconstitutional.
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How is a lawsuit a request? A lawsuit is explicitly asking a third party (the courts) to force the legislative and executive branch to take action that they have not taken otherwise. In addition, the only way a lawsuit could be successful is by arguing that federal action (of keeping the land) is not currently in line with the law.

There is no such thing as a lawsuit that is merely a request of the party you are suing. As I said, this is in violation of Utah's constitution and will be tossed for being frivolous.
 
I

inachu

Platinum Member
Aug 22, 2014
2,387
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41
While this is still fought in the court system I know for a fact that the USA GOVT will be sending a small platoon of oil sensing trucks who will shake the ground to scan for possible oil drilling sites. If they find no oil then UTAH will win.
If they find oil then UTAH will not win in court.
 
I

inachu

Platinum Member
Aug 22, 2014
2,387
2
41
To help Utah win you just need to setup a lot of cheap vibrating poles so that those sensor trucks will get invalid readings and will have no choice but to move on.
 
IronWing

IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
73,576
35,300
136
inachu said:
While this is still fought in the court system I know for a fact that the USA GOVT will be sending a small platoon of oil sensing trucks who will shake the ground to scan for possible oil drilling sites. If they find no oil then UTAH will win.
If they find oil then UTAH will not win in court.
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Utah is already an oil producing state and the federal lands already supply the bulk of that oil.
 
B

brycejones

Lifer
Oct 18, 2005
30,256
31,297
136
inachu said:
While this is still fought in the court system I know for a fact that the USA GOVT will be sending a small platoon of oil sensing trucks who will shake the ground to scan for possible oil drilling sites. If they find no oil then UTAH will win.
If they find oil then UTAH will not win in court.
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Tinfoil hat a bit tight today?
 
Brainonska511

Brainonska511

Lifer
Dec 10, 2005
29,595
15,134
136
inachu said:
Interesting! Did not know that. Must be for other resources then.
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Or it could be that Utah wants to be a freeloader and get free land from the people of the United States. Why don't they offer to buy it from us if they want it so bad?
 
Subyman

Subyman

Moderator <br> VC&G Forum
Mar 18, 2005
7,876
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Yeah, that map is a little misleading. We do not want to get upset over the feds protecting beautiful land. A lot of the western states have very large national parks that protect them from unregulated clear cutting and development.
 
adairusmc

adairusmc

Diamond Member
Jul 24, 2006
7,095
78
91
If they would allow for snowmobilers to have more access to the backcountry than what the Feds will allow, I could get behind this idea.
 
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