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Utah declares gay marriage bans unconstitutional

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You are the one arguing against basic biology. I mean if procreation has so little to do with marriage why do you keep saying the same ridiculous lie over and over again?

If marriage were an important component to reproduction in a biological sense, we would see it throughout biology. We do not. Marriage is strictly a human social construct with nothing to do with biology.

Again, false premise leading to an irrelevant conclusion.
 
I'm starting to wonder if nehalem understands that marriage isn't a pre-requisite for sex / procreation.

His entire argument is based on a false premise. Hilarious!
 
I'm starting to wonder if nehalem understands that marriage isn't a pre-requisite for sex / procreation.

His entire argument is based on a false premise. Hilarious!

he's pretty much just trolling at this point... not sure why you guys bother to argue with him.

he's been using the same "logic" for as long as he's been on the forums and is utterly impervious to seeing how many holes are in his argument.
 
he's pretty much just trolling at this point... not sure why you guys bother to argue with him.

he's been using the same "logic" for as long as he's been on the forums and is utterly impervious to seeing how many holes are in his argument.

This, put the troll on ignore and eventually he'll move on if people stop responding to him.
 
No, a gay couple can NOT procreate...they require a 3rd party to accomplish the task. Surrogate mother, sperm donor, whatever...however, infertile straight couples are in the same situation.

Myself, I don't give two shits if gays form a civil union...give them all the full financial and legal benefits of marriage. Just call it something else. My wife who has a few gay friends, (male and female) has suggested the term "pairraige" instead of marriage.

Anyone who thinks gays getting married (by any term) threatens the "sanctity of marriage" is a buffoon. With a divorce rate hovering at or above 40%, (and by some numbers, over 50%) straight people have done enough damage to the "institution of marriage" that gay people can't possibly hurt it.
Your third paragraph is spot-on; gay marriage can only strengthen marriage as an institution. (Unless one somehow takes comfort in being in an elite 90%, which would just be sad.) To the extent that marriage strengthens society - and I think it does that considerably - gay marriage will also strengthen society. Especially American society, which is being pulled apart by many factors. The more factors that bind our heterogeneous parts into one homogeneous whole, the better. United we stand . . .

Problem with using a different legal term is that this whole useless fight then continues as traditionalists try to carve out special benefits for "real marriage" and gay activists try to stop them - or even get special benefits for "pairraige". People just need to get over themselves and realize that their marriage is what THEY make of it, not how it is defined or who else is allowed to have the same rights.
I'm starting to wonder if nehalem understands that marriage isn't a pre-requisite for sex / procreation.

His entire argument is based on a false premise. Hilarious!
His premise is simply that marriage is a social construct designed to control procreation, not that it has ever been a prerequisite for procreation or limited to procreation. It's a valid point. My problems with it are that marriage has never been SOLELY about controlling procreation - binding together families and society has always been a major part of marriage - and that just as marriage has evolved in the past, so it must continue to evolve with our society. We have allowed homosexuality to become open and fairly mainstream, which is good, a natural extension of traditional Western liberalism. It must now become fully mainstream, with all the rights of heterosexuality, or it is a dividing agent we do not need.
 
My problems with it are that marriage has never been SOLELY about controlling procreation -

Exactly. Marriage is the statement of love between two people to the universe that their love is sacred and divine in origin, however one defines or conceives that sacred and divinity to be. It is the expression of the love in the human soul to the eternal. It is what bigots claim only they have the right to express, that only they are good enough for the job. Bigots arrogate for themselves and themselves alone the title of humanity and make of themselves true monsters. To deny the love of others is to expunge your own.
 
Exactly. Marriage is the statement of love between two people to the universe that their love is sacred and divine in origin, however one defines or conceives that sacred and divinity to be. It is the expression of the love in the human soul to the eternal. It is what bigots claim only they have the right to express, that only they are good enough for the job. Bigots arrogate for themselves and themselves alone the title of humanity and make of themselves true monsters. To deny the love of others is to expunge your own.
Agreed, and beautifully said. I believe that yours is truly the most universal and fundamental definition of marriage, not the various ends to which families and secular and clerical power have used it. With the understanding of course that marriage has not always followed that definition. But with the exception of outliers like medieval nobility (who denied that romantic love can be or even should be within the bounds of marriage), the goal even of arranged marriage was that the man and woman would grow to love each other. Marriage as a modern institution is all about that love, and there is no excuse for artificially limiting that to heterosexuals.

Government, or other people in the form of government, should never have the power to deny official recognition of a marriage without a very compelling societal need that can only be fulfilled with that discrimination.
 
I think it is silly for anyone who doesn't want to have children to get married. I see of no practical way to prevent it though, except perhaps through social values. Of course allowing same-sex couples to wed would seem to be the last way to do this.

I also know of no 100% reliable fertility test.

Also, I have stated over and over. Marriage is about the CONTROL of procreation. So as long as one person in a marriage was fertile marriage would be accomplishing this task.

There is no need to control procreation of gay couples, as nature nicely does this for us, and so such relationships are irrelevant to society. Just like all non-sexual relationships.

No one asks for special government recognition of their best-friendship. And anyone who asked for such would be laughed at. I wonder why?:hmm:

This is some of the most idiotic dribble I've ever read here. Marriage doesn't have shit to do with CONTROL of procreation, nothing at all. No one has to be married to give birth, and people that aren't married give birth all the time. Simply put, your entire statement is pure unadulterated bullshit.
 
Again how does one reliably determine a couple cannot or does not want to reproduce? :hmm:


I really don't understand why you are having such a problem with this. It's a very simple question.

One more time with gusto, do you believe that a heterosexual couple who can not have children or who do not want children should be legally allowed to marry?
 
Wrong. You don't have a right to FORCE OTHER PEOPLE(ie society) to recognize your union. That is a violation of other people's liberty.

Holy hell you are fucking stupid. It isn't about whether you and the other bigots like you want to recognize a couples same sex marriage, you can think whatever the hell you want, no one is going to make you think anything different because you and your opinion do not matter. What matters is that homosexuals are provided the same protections and benefits in the eyes of the law, and allowed the same right to marry the person they love. What YOU think does not matter to anyone.
 
Great, another stupid judge overrules the will of the people. Yeah for America.

isn't that what judges are there for when voters rule on something that violates constitutional protections?

fwiw, Utah opinion polls have swayed greatly since the marriage ban was enacted in 2004. at the time, 54% of the state opposed gay marriage in any form; according to recent polls, that's down to 29%.
 
Nothing like the courts trying to rail road their liberal agenda on matters of marriage down our throats just like they did decades ago.
 
Nothing like the courts trying to rail road their liberal agenda on matters of marriage down our throats just like they did decades ago.

I think you and your ilk have wayyyy too much of an obsession with things being rammed down your throats.
 
So are you suggesting that men are not fundamentally different from women?

Please be clear.

Perhaps you should have paid more attention in sex ed class?😕

Let me help

Rights should be applied at the Human level, All humans are Humans.
Your need to highlight differences in Humans when determining rights is where your bigotry shines.

The end
 
The country was based on the idea that the majority will not suppress the minority. Please learn about your own government so you don't look like a complete fool here.

It's the ego thingi so many conservatives are infected with. Their truthiness transcends law and science.
 
The country was based on the idea that the majority will not suppress the minority. Please learn about your own government so you don't look like a complete fool here.

Dont let your gay rights advocacy go to your head. It will make you look like a complete fool here. ^_^
 
Dont let your gay rights advocacy go to your head. It will make you look like a complete fool here. ^_^

Don't let Civil Rights advocacy go to your head. It will make you look like a complete fool here. . .

Oh wait, no.

It will make you look like someone who has read the Gospel.
 
it always amazes me that anyone cares that 2 guys or girls want to get married. how does it effect you? or effect marriage (look at divorce rates..)

who really gives a fuck.
 
Dont let your gay rights advocacy go to your head. It will make you look like a complete fool here. ^_^

Do you know why hick states with 2 people get the same congressional representation as states like California? That's right! The country went out of its way to make sure the majority wouldn't suppress the minority.

The more you know!
 
You're a confused little man. Pity. :whiste:

Why not give us a few pictures of you protesting the right for people who love each other to get married.. maybe you will even make it into the textbooks so future generations can laugh at you!

People like you are born over and over again.

Whether it is slavery, desegregation, women's right to vote, interracial marriage, or gay marriage. There will always be some new group for bigots to hate.
 
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