Using Momentum To Lift

[Wyndru]

I've noticed people on videos and in the gym using momentum...either by swinging the weights in the case of lifts like curls or using a quick explosive force like crossfit's overhead press, kipping chin-ups, etc...

For example I notice that when I do my OHP, I don't use my chest with a quick motion to push it up, even though on the SL site they say this is a way to help you get heavier weights up. When I do squats I try to do a smooth fluid motion down and up, not a quick drop or rapid lift.

Last night I tried some of these momentum techniques I see people doing, and I was able to get up more weight, but I'm wondering if doing it this way is even worth it. My form doesn't change much when I do it this way, I just find myself using short bursts to get the weight up as opposed to a smooth lift. I can get myself fired up and rapidly rip through sets, but it seems strange to me, almost like I'm cheating myself when I do this.

Do you get the same workout doing it this way? Is it beneficial in any way?
Or is it simply bad form to do this, and a bad habit to get into?

 

[TechBoyJK]

it's cheating to me. Like when I do bicep curls.. I try and lean back against a wall or something so I can't lean back (causing momentum).

 

[nanaki333]

like techboy said, it's totally cheating. i see it all the time at my gym. mostly just people trying to show off by doing weight they could never do properly. it's a very good way to hurt yourself too.

it reminds me of that family guy episode "the trick is to shift all the weight from your legs through to your back and groin, then lift with a twisting jerking motion. You wanna take your legs completely out of the equation"

 

[Wyndru]

Ok, that's what I figured. I was confused because of statements like this (from stonglift's guide to OHP's):
http://stronglifts.com/how-to-overhead-press-with-correct-technique/

If you breathe at the top, you can bounce the bar off your chest making the next rep easier. Breathe at the bottom & you'll press from a dead stop, making the next rep harder. The former allows more weight. The latter makes the exercise harder, making the former easier.

I wouldn't think "bouncing" the bar off your chest would be considered proper form.

I've also seen some demos on crossfits where they use bursts to get overhead presses above their heads for 1 rep (I forgot the name of the actual lift). And kipping is also an exercise used in crossfit, which I thought was another bad form, but I guess it is more of a gymnastic motion than cheating.

Oh, and powercleans seem to use momentum, but I guess you have no choice with those, since the weight is usually significant.

 

[blackdogdeek]

regarding the crossfit exercises, i'd call it functional cheating. what i mean is that i'm exercising the movements the way i would perform them in real life. take for example during hurricane irene the many, many times i had to lift the wet vac into our basement's slop sink after it got full. i definitely exploded into the lift as fast as i could instead of a slow ultra-controlled motion. regarding the kipping pullups, again, in real life if i had to climb onto something from a hanging position i would probably kip myself up there instead of just slowly lifting myself up.

 

[SociallyChallenged]

Actually, you're misjudging what you've seen. The overhead press in CrossFit that you're explaining isn't the press - it's called a push press. It's a movement utilized to focus on the explosive nature of the lift - not only shoulder strength. If a workout specifically says overhead press, that means no "kipping" or no hip drive involved - it's a strict press. If you're doing basic movements, you want them to be controlled and not fast (unless you're doing a Louie Simmons dynamic lifting day). That allows for better motor coordination and less likelihood of injury.

 

[SociallyChallenged]

Ok, that's what I figured. I was confused because of statements like this (from stonglift's guide to OHP's):
http://stronglifts.com/how-to-overhead-press-with-correct-technique/
I wouldn't think "bouncing" the bar off your chest would be considered proper form.

I've also seen some demos on crossfits where they use bursts to get overhead presses above their heads for 1 rep (I forgot the name of the actual lift). And kipping is also an exercise used in crossfit, which I thought was another bad form, but I guess it is more of a gymnastic motion than cheating.

Oh, and powercleans seem to use momentum, but I guess you have no choice with those, since the weight is usually significant.

That StrongLift's quote is silly either way. You SHOULD breathe at the top so that you can perform a proper Valsalva manuever - however, you should NOT bounce the weight off your chest at any time. You should get light, controlled contact to signify finishing the rep and then press up.

Like I said, some movements actually work on explosiveness. Power cleans don't utilize basic momentum as you think. It's a carefully formed movement to get the weight from point A to point B. It requires explosion from the hip, back, and shoulder to complete it. That doesn't mean it's not a valid lift. The olympic lifts are completely difference from the basic compound lifts like the squat and deadlift.

 

[brad310]

It depends on the goal. Regarding kipping pullups...the goal is different than a strict pullup. A kipping pullup recruits more muscles, lets you work harder longer, so our heart rate stays up longer. A push press ( military press with some knee or hip movement ) lets you put more weight on the bar, which means more weight on your shoulders midway up through the top...as well as recruit more muscles and work harder overall. Idealogically, its probably similar to using bands and chains to make a movement heavy at the top or the bottom...but its only useful if you know your goal.

A total novice might do it as a cheat...where as someone that knows what they're doing from the outset has a different purpose in mind than just pushing up a number. If you see someone doing a strict press and start doing push presses to get through the set...then ya, thats probably cheating...but if you see someone do 20 kipping pullups, their heart rate is probably 180 so leave them alone.

 

[soccerballtux]

I've noticed people on videos and in the gym using momentum...either by swinging the weights in the case of lifts like curls or using a quick explosive force like crossfit's overhead press, kipping chin-ups, etc...

For example I notice that when I do my OHP, I don't use my chest with a quick motion to push it up, even though on the SL site they say this is a way to help you get heavier weights up. When I do squats I try to do a smooth fluid motion down and up, not a quick drop or rapid lift.

Last night I tried some of these momentum techniques I see people doing, and I was able to get up more weight, but I'm wondering if doing it this way is even worth it. My form doesn't change much when I do it this way, I just find myself using short bursts to get the weight up as opposed to a smooth lift. I can get myself fired up and rapidly rip through sets, but it seems strange to me, almost like I'm cheating myself when I do this.

Do you get the same workout doing it this way? Is it beneficial in any way?
Or is it simply bad form to do this, and a bad habit to get into?

there's a place for momentum but it's always easier to go to the next set of weights if I've fully mastered what I'm currently on. End up larger at a given weight that way too.

 

[Wyndru]

Thanks for the answers. I understand the difference now. My goal is just to do the exercises as intended, and I still see some vids that appear to be just poor form and people just trying to get heavier weight up. At least comparing a few different vids I can tell which ones are just trying to throw up weight however possible.

I also realize now that the push presses are a completely different exercise than the OHP, and the comment about the power cleans utilizing the explosive motion makes sense too.

I guess I was just confused because I didn't realize there were so many variations of specific lifts/exercises based on individual goals.

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

I've been reading hte strong lifts site alot lately. My understanding is that he is trying to get proper form to prevent injury.

To be clear, this is what stronglifts says in regards to overhead press:

Breathing. If you breathe at the top, you can bounce the bar off your chest making the next rep easier. Breathe at the bottom & you'll press from a dead stop, making the next rep harder. The former allows more weight. The latter makes the exercise harder, making the former easier.

I think all he is advocating is proper breating. You do not want to do a rep and let the bar sit on your shoulders for 1 second while you inhale. All that seems to do (in my opinion) is provide time for fatique to set in.

Just my viewpoint.

I am going to the strong lifts routine when I move. Hopefully this year.