Using an ice pack - harmful to apply directly to skin?

[grohl]

I frequently ice my knees and shins when doing my long runs. Sucks getting old.

I have tried to ice on top of an ace bandage and over clothing - it seems to be a general recommendation to NOT apply an icebag directly to the skin.

I get much better relief when I apply it straight to the skin. Am I hurting anything by doing this?

 

[Howard]

Potential for frostbite, I suppose.

 

[InflatableBuddha]

Potential for frostbite, I suppose.

Actually yes. There was a rugby player at my university who decided to ice his leg after coming home from drinking. He passed out with the ice pack on his leg and woke up with frostbite.

OP - wrap it in a single layer of an old towel or use an old t-shirt and you'll still get the benefits without any risk of frostbite.

 

[SociallyChallenged]

Well, there's a solution to what you want. You can do an ice massage - apply an ice cube (or a cup-shaped ice cylinder) directly to the skin, keep the ice in constant motion, and stop icing it when you're numb in the area of pain. If you don't want to take the time to do that, then icing it with a layer between is typically suggested. Make sure you don't keep it on for longer than 15-20min because then you have possibility of 1) necrosis of the skin (aka frostbite) and 2) reactive hyperemia. Reactive hyperemia is a phenomenon where blood flow will actually increase after intense icing/occlusion of a blood vessel. That results in MORE swelling, which is counterproductive since people usually ice for inflammation control and pain management. Those are the two methods I've used in the physical therapy clinic.

 

[grohl]

Well, there's a solution to what you want. You can do an ice massage - apply an ice cube (or a cup-shaped ice cylinder) directly to the skin, keep the ice in constant motion, and stop icing it when you're numb in the area of pain. If you don't want to take the time to do that, then icing it with a layer between is typically suggested. Make sure you don't keep it on for longer than 15-20min because then you have possibility of 1) necrosis of the skin (aka frostbite) and 2) reactive hyperemia. Reactive hyperemia is a phenomenon where blood flow will actually increase after intense icing/occlusion of a blood vessel. That results in MORE swelling, which is counterproductive since people usually ice for inflammation control and pain management. Those are the two methods I've used in the physical therapy clinic.

thank you for a well-written, helpful response.

 

[SociallyChallenged]

thank you for a well-written, helpful response.

Not a problem Keep in mind that the ice massage typically takes less than 10 minutes, in my experience. It really gets down deep if you apply moderate pressure. We especially like to use it for hands, since they're so sensitive to aches and pains.

Oh, also, I thought I'd make a side note - there's an important part of the leg you want to be careful about icing. There's a nerve there called the common fibular nerve right below the outside part of your knee (later superior fibula). It's pretty superficial. If you ice that area too long and damage the nerve, you can get a condition called foot drop where you can't dorsiflex your foot. I've only seen it damaged in two people, but it's pretty serious. I tend to put an extra layer over that area or massage for a shorter period around it. I thought I'd mention it since you seem to be icing around your knee. Cheers though! Hope everything feels a bit better.

 

[alkemyst]

SC, you may win points in class, but in a general forum expanding on the techno goes a long way.

Frostbite is serious though...I never had a problem wrapping one of those blue ice packs around me and removing after 20-30mins though...

they are usually fully thawed by then. I am a high temperature baby though YMMV

 

[SociallyChallenged]

SC, you may win points in class, but in a general forum expanding on the techno goes a long way.

Frostbite is serious though...I never had a problem wrapping one of those blue ice packs around me and removing after 20-30mins though...

they are usually fully thawed by then. I am a high temperature baby though YMMV

I gave both the technical problems and put them into layman's terms. Blood flood will actually increase if you leave the ice on too much. I just gave the name so people can google it if they want to. Also, I said that you can damage a nerve if you're not careful where you ice it. That's simple enough as well. I do it so people can look up the technical stuff on a medical website if they want to, but also explain it so they understand what's going on. Also, the OP said my explanation was fine for him so I think I'm ok

 

[TallBill]

I gave both the technical problems and put them into layman's terms. Blood flood will actually increase if you leave the ice on too much. I just gave the name so people can google it if they want to. Also, I said that you can damage a nerve if you're not careful where you ice it. That's simple enough as well. I do it so people can look up the technical stuff on a medical website if they want to, but also explain it so they understand what's going on. Also, the OP said my explanation was fine for him so I think I'm ok

alkemyst is a troll, don't worry about his response.

 

[alkemyst]

alkemyst is a troll, don't worry about his response.

Hardly a troll attempt brah.

While many may think they understand concepts other in their execution you will find they misunderstood/assumed something.

I have learned talking at the level of my graduate classes or at the top level of most of the things I have experience in (which is a lot of things) just makes for piss poor results.

One of the things that separates the educated from the non-educated isn't truly intelligence, it's getting the real story and the 'tricks of the trade'...which often are very contradictory to what the average guy knows/thinks.

That's all I am saying.

 

[SociallyChallenged]

Hardly a troll attempt brah.

While many may think they understand concepts other in their execution you will find they misunderstood/assumed something.

I have learned talking at the level of my graduate classes or at the top level of most of the things I have experience in (which is a lot of things) just makes for piss poor results.

One of the things that separates the educated from the non-educated isn't truly intelligence, it's getting the real story and the 'tricks of the trade'...which often are very contradictory to what the average guy knows/thinks.

That's all I am saying.

I actually learned this in the clinic before I wrote a research paper on it. I understand it to a pretty good degree. There's not much you can mess up in explaining reactive hyperemia. If someone knew Latin, they'd probably be able to explain it in simplified text. I'll continue to explain things in both technical and general terms. It helps me remember important stuff and educates those interested in the what's and how's of a certain response. I'm quite alright with what I do.