Using a gamepad on PC Using a gamepad on consoles in many games

[Nvidiaguy07]

I play about 90% of my games on PC, but when its possible, I like to play with a controller, so this way I can play relaxed, and also play on the couch and laying in bed and such.

What I've realized over the past few years is that there are a TON of games that have controller support, but its basically impossible to play with a controller on a PC (talking about FPS games).

The most glaring example is call of duty. I have black ops 2 for 360 and for PC, and the experience playing with a controller on the xbox is 1000x better than it is on PC. I think it has to do with auto aim probably, but either way, I literally cannot play this with a controller on the PC. Whereas I think I actually prefer playing with a controller on xbox than a kb+m on the PC. And just to clarify, im not talking about any super competitive modes, but just the occasional zombie map by myself.

There have been countless games that do the same thing. Most recently I have been playing far cry blood dragon - which is a pretty awesome game. I played the first few hours with kb+m, but when I switched to a gamepad, it was unplayable. I have a feeling playing the same game on the 360 would not be such a terrible experience.

If I had to guess, Id say on PC, the right stick is just emulating moving a mouse around 1:1 with no tweaks at all. On xbox, EVERY game has tweaks so it feels natural. Why is this abandoned on PC games?

There are a few games that do it right (borderlands 1/2, deus ex HR, saints row, dishonored was OK, space marine), but there are far too many that make it pretty much impossible to play with a controller.

If steam really wants to get serious about getting in the living room this seriously needs to be addressed.

If I were trying to sell someone on choosing PC over the next gen consoles, Id have to mention shit like this that happens (among other things) when you are a PC gamer. The whole Mass Effect series not having controller support was a bunch of crap too.

 

[Barfo]

FPS games don't work well with controllers.

Well duh? that's the one genre where it's most glaringly obvious that KB+M is way, way superior to any controller.
I'm pretty sure the majority of PC gamers wouldn't want to play a FPS with a controller, ever.

Perhaps the Steam controller will change that, but it remains to be seen.

 

[motsm]

I can't comment on the controls in COD, but it's not uncommon to have tweaked AI for different platforms in order to compensate for the precision of a mouse. So it's possible that the enemies in COD react quicker on PC, and they keep that enhancement regardless if you are playing with a controller. Just speculation, but perhaps its contributing to the issue.

 

[hans030390]

Weird. I'm assuming you're using a USB 360 controller? I can't say I've noticed the same issues, though I generally play first person shooters with the KB+M unless it's something less competitive and has less of a need for absolute precision.

 

[AznAnarchy99]

There's no gamepad aim assist in PC shooters.

 

[Veliko]

Well duh? that's the one genre where it's most glaringly obvious that KB+M is way, way superior to any controller.
I'm pretty sure the majority of PC gamers wouldn't want to play a FPS with a controller, ever.

You seem to have got a little over-excited when you saw that he wanted to play FPS games with a controller.

If you read his post, he explains why he wants to use a controller so your "that KB+M is way, way superior to any controller" point is stupid.

 

[Veliko]

The most glaring example is call of duty. I have black ops 2 for 360 and for PC, and the experience playing with a controller on the xbox is 1000x better than it is on PC. I think it has to do with auto aim probably, but either way, I literally cannot play this with a controller on the PC. Whereas I think I actually prefer playing with a controller on xbox than a kb+m on the PC. And just to clarify, im not talking about any super competitive modes, but just the occasional zombie map by myself.

There'll probably be different people working on each version, and those teams will concentrate on getting it to work with what most people will be using.

Comparatively few people will use a controller on the PC version so the PC team won't bother fine-tuning the controls for it.

 

[Tweak155]

The only "fps" game I've played on PC with a controller is Fallout 3 / NV. It worked quite well for those, but those aren't true "fps" I suppose.

I use the controller whenever possible too. Gives it more of a game feel.

Right now playing Sleeping Dogs with one, it's great!

 

[Arkaign]

I played ME3 with a 360 pad. I use a mapper though, I always make one for games because the default configs sometimes drive me batty.

The only thing they could do is offer an aim assist mode when using the pad. The fact is that gamepads are a horrible way to play FPS, and copious aim assist is the only way it's possible. That said, they would have to take that out for the MP, otherwise you'd have cheaters using mouse AND getting aim assists by making the game think they were using a pad.

I love nothing more than hearing from some console-only gamer that they're amazing at an FPS, then getting them on a PC match letting them use the 360 pad while I kb/mouse it. They get the idea pretty quickly that without aim assist, the pad is a joke for FPS.

Of course, for many games on PC, the pad is just fine (or better than kb/mouse!). Sports, racing, fighting, platformer, action/adventure, the list is long. It's really RTS/FPS and a few others where it just doesn't work well at all.

 

[Newbian]

There's no gamepad aim assist in PC shooters.

That's the problem here.

Unless you make the game go easy mode just to factor in controllers as we have seen some games go for on consoles on fps games it is not going to work especially if the game has a multiplayer mode.

I would have to assume it's easy for one console / game to configure the settings for it's default controller while the pc can't do that as it has no default separate controller and even then controller option is a very limited market for pc games of that type thus the limited support.

 

[gothamhunter]

There's no gamepad aim assist in PC shooters.

This

 

[Childs]

That's the problem here.

Unless you make the game go easy mode just to factor in controllers as we have seen some games go for on consoles on fps games it is not going to work especially if the game has a multiplayer mode.

I would have to assume it's easy for one console / game to configure the settings for it's default controller while the pc can't do that as it has no default separate controller and even then controller option is a very limited market for pc games of that type thus the limited support.

If they could split up controller users and KB+M users they could do aim assist, but then it would probably be too easy to circumvent. Maybe enable it for single player only. In the coming years they'll probably figure something out, as this PC+controller setup seems to be gaining momentum.

 

[Nvidiaguy07]

@Barfo - Not saying that a gamepad is better at all. Just saying playing the same game on PC and on console with a gamepad, the experience is 1000x better in certain games.

I know it has to do with auto aim, and specific tweaks, but I really wish all games would bring those tweaks to PC when they port the games over (like they do so well in borderlands).

If I had to guess, in competitive games like BF and COD, they leave it out altogether, because they dont want people using a gamepad with autoaim (even though kb+m is still better) because its a slight form of cheating. Games that are single player driven dont matter, so they incorporate those tweaks to make the controller better.

Just sucks not knowing beforehand, because a game may say it has controller support, but its basically impossible to play with a controller. Which now that I think about it, is probably why controller gets such a bad rap with kb+m players. Without optimizing it is nearly impossible to hit a target.

@Arkaign Funny you mentioned Mass Effect. I actually was super happy I found a file online that natively lets you use the 360 without having to use xpadder or anything (even the onscreen buttons were 360 buttons). But sadly there was no aim assist and it was pretty much unplayable. Im playing it now with kb+m, but I hate the fact that I cant play with a gamepad, because this is a game i wanna spend a lot of time in, and I would love to sit back and relax and play. Precision is really not that important to me - I play on normal.

@Tweak155 Fallout might be a game then where it actually works the way it should. I wish there was a database somewhere that kept track of good and bad controller support.

This IMO is one of PC's biggest problems. Lets say I did convince a friend to just get a nice PC and to play with a controller - so you get a better-than-nextgen experience. This is the kind of crap I would end up having to explain to him, and honestly if you're someone who just wants to enjoy the damn game, its a deal breaker.

 

[DigDog]

surprise - games that were designed to be play specifically with the mouse, don't work without a mouse.

frankly, dishonored had so many buttons, it was impossible to play with KBM. to each its own.

 

[Dumac]

This IMO is one of PC's biggest problems. Lets say I did convince a friend to just get a nice PC and to play with a controller - so you get a better-than-nextgen experience. This is the kind of crap I would end up having to explain to him, and honestly if you're someone who just wants to enjoy the damn game, its a deal breaker.

I think that it is a problem and it would be useful to get an experience similar to a console when you plug in a control, but "one of PC's biggest problems" is overkill.

The problem with your whole viewpoint is that you are viewing gamepad play as superior to kb+m, which isn't an opinion shared by anyone.

PC lets you play with a kb+m and a controller (to varying degrees of success).
Console lets you play with controller only.

Not being able to play an FPS with a kb+m, the objectively best method of input for an FPS, AT ALL on consoles is more of a dealbeaker to me than some games on PC not having good controller support.

 

[Nvidiaguy07]

I think that it is a problem and it would be useful to get an experience similar to a console when you plug in a control, but "one of PC's biggest problems" is overkill.

The problem with your whole viewpoint is that you are viewing gamepad play as superior to kb+m, which isn't an opinion shared by anyone.

PC lets you play with a kb+m and a controller (to varying degrees of success).
Console lets you play with controller only.

Not being able to play an FPS with a kb+m, the objectively best method of input for an FPS, AT ALL on consoles is more of a dealbeaker to me than some games on PC not having good controller support.

Maybe you should go back and read what I said about a million times. Not once did I ever say that a gamepad is superior. Thats just fucking stupid. But what is stupider is that you and people like you have to see it as some kind of competition. Did you ever think to yourself that some people might enjoy playing with a controller for other reasons than being the absolute best that they can be?

I play games to enjoy them. The older I get the less I care about reflex based competitive games, and just want to sit back and enjoy the experience. Its people like you who are too thick headed to realize that people have different interests than yourself.

And yes, in the coming years, if steam and the PC are going to move to mainstream and into the living room, then proper controller supprt is needed. I know for a fact if someone only used gamepad, but still only bought games that said they supported gamepad, they would be hugely disappointed by the experience they get on PC vs console. IMO if that is a problem, then whatever advantage PC gaming has for people like that (cheap games, better graphics, etc) is worthless.

If a game is going to support a controller - then support it. Dont just tack it on and screw those few people who actually use it. Fortunately for myself I use both, but like I said before there are a ton of games (most notably mass effect) that I would much rather play with a controller, but I cant.

Lastly, realize that this is a PC forum, so most people will also prefer kb+m to gamepad But I guarantee probably 90% or more gamers prefer gamepad to kb+m. So like I said shit like this is imo is a huge problem that I hope is addressed in the coming years if steam wants to be in the living room.

 

[motsm]

If a game is going to support a controller - then support it. Dont just tack it on and screw those few people who actually use it.

What do you expect? They screw up the mouse & keyboard controls more often than controller support these days. So while I am all for getting proper controller support in all the games it logically suits, I would say they better get their rather pathetic act together with the platforms primary inputs first.

 

[darkswordsman17]

OP I take it you completely missed the Steam Controller? Granted its not out yet but Valve seems to agree and is working to address it. I'm definitely interested in trying it out.

There's a ton of issues with games, there's plenty that I wonder what they were thinking as far as controls or some other basic aspect of the game. Seems like there's a lot of times where I can't even stand to play a game for like 5 minutes because the feel of the control mixed with stuff like horrible FOV. Like when I started playing Dead Island, I thought it was kinda cool how they made the controls feel like you were waking up from a major hangover after the opening cinematic, only to find, no apparently were ok with the game feeling like that thanks to the stilted control and horrible FOV. Or Killing Floor. Or Superbrothers Sword and Sorcery EP.

There's definitely a lot of room for improvements in even the basic workings of games. Its probably why you notice that difference with the consoles, there's several developers that put in the extra to get control to be solid that probably don't even touch the PC ports (if there even is one of their game).

 

[Nvidiaguy07]

What do you expect? They screw up the mouse & keyboard controls more often than controller support these days. So while I am all for getting proper controller support in all the games it logically suits, I would say they better get their rather pathetic act together with the platforms primary inputs first.

I guess, but if you look at it that way (designing games for consoles first), then making the controller experience on PC should be actually easier than kb+m because theyve already done it.

OP I take it you completely missed the Steam Controller? Granted its not out yet but Valve seems to agree and is working to address it. I'm definitely interested in trying it out.

There's a ton of issues with games, there's plenty that I wonder what they were thinking as far as controls or some other basic aspect of the game. Seems like there's a lot of times where I can't even stand to play a game for like 5 minutes because the feel of the control mixed with stuff like horrible FOV. Like when I started playing Dead Island, I thought it was kinda cool how they made the controls feel like you were waking up from a major hangover after the opening cinematic, only to find, no apparently were ok with the game feeling like that thanks to the stilted control and horrible FOV. Or Killing Floor. Or Superbrothers Sword and Sorcery EP.

There's definitely a lot of room for improvements in even the basic workings of games. Its probably why you notice that difference with the consoles, there's several developers that put in the extra to get control to be solid that probably don't even touch the PC ports (if there even is one of their game).

I did see that, but I dont think the steam controller is meant to be a better controller for FPS games. So for this issue, I dont think the steam controller is going to make any difference.

Although on the other hand - in the demo video, they did say they were playing portal 2 with just emulating the mouse, and it seemed to work pretty well. Then again how much can we trust a tech demo?

Agreed that some games do feel terrible on PC, but all im saying is that someone did the work to make the controller smooth and fun on the console, and that work must be getting thrown out the window on the pc version just to add kb+m support. There needs to be more developers that keep that same experience for using the gamepad on PC and console.

Not sure what is going to change this, because it doesnt seem like a huge issue to most yet (not many FPS PC players that use gamepad at the moment), but with steamboxes this could end up being a big deal. I just hope devs see how many people are starting to use the controller on PC and start giving it the time it deserves.

I wish there were some database out there that graded controller support in PC versions of the game.

 

[Dumac]

Maybe you should go back and read what I said about a million times. Not once did I ever say that a gamepad is superior. Thats just fucking stupid.

Hmm...

I play games to enjoy them. The older I get the less I care about reflex based competitive games, and just want to sit back and enjoy the experience.

I guarantee probably 90% or more gamers prefer gamepad to kb+m.

You are insinuating that a gamepad in superior in some sense. Superior doesn't just mean in terms of input - you are saying it is superior for enjoyment. The thing is, NOT EVERYONE AGREES WITH YOU. You see controller support as the end-all for games, but a lot of PC gamers are happy with kb+m. I find it completely unreasonable for you to be okay with consoles only supporting gamepads, but throwing a fit over PCs supporting not only kb+m but also gamepads to a lesser degree. It makes no sense.

A PC game HAS to support kb+m. Supporting a gamepad on top of that is extra work/money/time. Yes, it is great when they do it, but getting so upset because your PC game doesn't have this extra support is petty. Because that is what it is - extra support.

Not to mention, your games of complaint are primarily multiplayer FPS and a reflex based competitive game. Now how would they achieve this in a multiplayer FPS? Add aiming assist like on the 360 when you use a controller? Well that isn't very fun or fair is it? Or do you expect them to support an entirely different control scheme for singleplayer in a game that is primarily meant for multiplayer?

But what is stupider is that you and people like you have to see it as some kind of competition. Did you ever think to yourself that some people might enjoy playing with a controller for other reasons than being the absolute best that they can be?

Its people like you who are too thick headed to realize that people have different interests than yourself.

Oh get over your self. I own every console to date, so I'm not some PC snob. My PC is directly plugged into my HDTV, and I game using a 360 controller on the couch all the time. Darksiders, Sleeping Dogs, Dark Souls, Fez, The Walking Dead, Psychonauts, Costume Quest, Mark of the Ninja, Dreamfall, Bastion, Arkham City, Alan Wake, Braid, plus a bunch of other games I can't remember. Stop making assumptions.

PC games have great controller support in the most needed area - third person action, racing, platformer, etc. FPS is simply a whole different scenario.

And yes, in the coming years, if steam and the PC are going to move to mainstream and into the living room, then proper controller supprt is needed. I know for a fact if someone only used gamepad, but still only bought games that said they supported gamepad, they would be hugely disappointed by the experience they get on PC vs console. IMO if that is a problem, then whatever advantage PC gaming has for people like that (cheap games, better graphics, etc) is worthless.

Not all PC games work with a traditional gamepad. That is why Valve is trying to make their own new style of gamepad.

So like I said shit like this is imo is a huge problem that I hope is addressed in the coming years if steam wants to be in the living room.

Again, it isn't a huge problem. It would be an added benefit for more PC games to support gamepads to a greater degree, and that is the way the industry the moving. But it isn't a requirement. I don't see you pounding your fists because consoles don't support kb+m, yet you flip out because not all PC games support gamepads to the high degree you expect? All because YOU prefer gamepads.

Keyboard + mouse is the primary input on PC. Anything on top of that is extra. At least a PC gives you options and there is some sense of extra input support.

 

[reallyscrued]

Xbox360's gamepad driver for Windows puts the analog triggers on the same axis.

That's the worst for me. Try braking and hitting the gas at the same time in a PC racer with your two inputs cancel each other out.

 

[alcoholbob]

If I have a hankering to sit back and use a controller on the PC, I usually turn the difficulty down since aiming is much harder than with a mouse.

 

[Nvidiaguy07]

@Dumac: Read between the fucking lines.

I think I actually prefer playing with a controller on xbox than a kb+m on the PC. And just to clarify, im not talking about any super competitive modes

@Barfo - Not saying that a gamepad is better at all. Just saying playing the same game on PC and on console with a gamepad, the experience is 1000x better in certain games.
......
If I had to guess, in competitive games like BF and COD, they leave it out altogether, because they dont want people using a gamepad with autoaim (even though kb+m is still better) because its a slight form of cheating. Games that are single player driven dont matter, so they incorporate those tweaks to make the controller better.

You are insinuating that a gamepad in superior in some sense. Superior doesn't just mean in terms of input - you are saying it is superior for enjoyment. The thing is, NOT EVERYONE AGREES WITH YOU. You see controller support as the end-all for games, but a lot of PC gamers are happy with kb+m.

And are you fucking kidding me? No shit not everyone agrees with me, but take a look at what youre saying. NOT EVERYONE AGREES WITH YOU!!!! People game different ways for different reasons, and your attitude that kb+m is the only form of input is wrong.

When did I say I see controller support as the end-all for games? Please go back and read AGAIN.

What im asking for is choice and the FACT is that more and more PC gamers are using controllers. If you look at ALL gamers, MOST use controller, so like I said before, if PC games want to start moving towards the living room, then they need to support controllers!!!!

I find it completely unreasonable for you to be okay with consoles only supporting gamepads, but throwing a fit over PCs supporting not only kb+m but also gamepads to a lesser degree. It makes no sense.

Again, what the hell are you talking about? Not one person expects consoles to support kb+m. No one. And throwing a fit? just saying if you already have good controller support made for your game, then use it on PC.....

A PC game HAS to support kb+m. Supporting a gamepad on top of that is extra work/money/time. Yes, it is great when they do it, but getting so upset because your PC game doesn't have this extra support is petty. Because that is what it is - extra support.

Not when the work has already been done.

Not to mention, your games of complaint are primarily multiplayer FPS and a reflex based competitive game. Now how would they achieve this in a multiplayer FPS? Add aiming assist like on the 360 when you use a controller? Well that isn't very fun or fair is it? Or do you expect them to support an entirely different control scheme for singleplayer in a game that is primarily meant for multiplayer?

Mass Effect? Far Cry? And how about disabling auto aim for online play? Or have servers just for controller players so the playing field is leveled.

And get over myself? All you have done so far is made assumptions with every post you made.

Im not "pounding my fists", but rather raising an issue that I personally think is a deal breaker for people who may or may not be interested in getting a steam-box or something similar vs a next gen console. Ive stated already in this thread that I know at the moment im in the minority, but this is an issue I think devs need to think about. If a player who didnt know any better played one game on PC, even though they might be impressed with the better graphics, they might be turned off because it "felt weird", without being able to put their finger on it.

Youve brought nothing to this discussion besides saying how this is a non-problem when it clearly is to some people. Controller gamers dominate the market, and steam and PC games need to step it up. Can you imagine how big of a problem this would be if say ps3 had the same controller support in some games as PC, and xbox was the only real great controller experience. People would lose their shit. Its not as big an issue now because steam is no where near there yet, but someday they might be in a position to get there, and it would really suck for something like this to ruin its chances.

 

[motsm]

Xbox360's gamepad driver for Windows puts the analog triggers on the same axis.

That's the worst for me. Try braking and hitting the gas at the same time in a PC racer with your two inputs cancel each other out.

It displays that way in the calibration app, but I've never had a game that reacted improperly to it. Shift 2 can display your inputs, and it shows both axis working perfectly, and they in no way interfere with each other.

Do issues crop up in games that don't officially support the 360 pad? Otherwise, I think your mistaken.

 

[Soundmanred]

Xbox360's gamepad driver for Windows puts the analog triggers on the same axis.

That's the worst for me. Try braking and hitting the gas at the same time in a PC racer with your two inputs cancel each other out.

Burnout Paradise would be the worst racing game ever if this were true.