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USA and Steel Import Tariffs

N

Newton

Junior Member
As a Brit. I would like to express my thanks to the American people for the way their government have chosen to show their gratitude for our support in your war against terrorism.

I know thousands of British Steelworkers who work in modern, efficient and productive, unsubsidised mills would also like to join me in this expression of thanks. We know that the USA being the most prominent capitalist country in the world is the flag bearer of free trade and thrives on competition from where ever it comes.

Once again we thank you, you certainly know how to make and keep your friends, we learn so much from you.

Thankyou.
 
Like the Brits don't have any tariffs....tell me something I can believe...

The British economy is stagnant compared to the US. The opportunity for real growth is here. The Japanese have been dumping steel here for a long while. They sell it for less than it costs to make.

If we erected the same barriers to so-called 'free trade' that most European countries have it would nearly bankrupt many countries includeing Canada and Mexico.

I'm for free trade as long as it is on equal footing. In this case the evidence proves that it is not.
 


<< [/b]The Japanese have been dumping steel here for a long while. They sell it for less than it costs to make.[/b] >>


Hey, that sounds good to me, as well as the vast majority of Americans (that is, as long as they aren't steel workers)! 🙂

People (mostly media) makes too damn big a deal about dumping and steelworkers losing jobs. I mean geez, if Japanese make too much steel and sell it over here at a very low cost, then the US consumer does great in that deal.
 


<< I'm for free trade as long as it is on equal footing. In this case the evidence proves that it is not. >>



To my knowledge these tariffs and quotas aren't because other countries have them, but because other countries have alot more efficient steel-mills when compared to american companies. That's why steel made outside USA is cheaper.

If you want to blame someone, why not blame the corporations who felt that they don't have to modernize their mills? You reap what you sow, other countries have modern mills that are simply superior to the american mills. That's why american companies can't compete. It's because they were short-sighted and/or stupid not to modernize their mills.
 


<< People (mostly media) makes too damn big a deal about dumping and steelworkers losing jobs. I mean geez, if Japanese make too much steel and sell it over here at a very low cost, then the US consumer does great in that deal. >>



The cost to the consumer is in the tenth's of a cent for most items and only a few bucks in the price of a car.

We have fewer barriers to trade than ANY nation on earth!
 


<< People (mostly media) makes too damn big a deal about dumping and steelworkers losing jobs. I mean geez, if Japanese make too much steel and sell it over here at a very low cost, then the US consumer does great in that deal. >>


Uh huh...it's always a good idea to become so dependant on another countries product that they end up having you by the nads.....just look at our dependence on oil.
 


<< The cost to the consumer is in the tenth's of a cent for most items and only a few bucks in the price of a car. >>


Those tenths of cents per percent of tariff add up. Furthermore, economic theory tells us that any change in the price of a good (for example, an increase of an automobile price by $50) DOES affect demand for the product. So even though you may not view it as an important increase, I imagine that some people do. It definitely affects your disposable income either way.



<< We have fewer barriers to trade than ANY nation on earth! >>


I beg to differ.
According to freetheworld.com, the US's mean tariff rate is 4.8%, which is quite good.
Singapore is at 0.4%, and Hong Kong is at 0.0%. Norway is at 4.1%. New Zealand is at 3.8%. Israel is 2.0%. Iceland is 1.9%.
 


<<

<< People (mostly media) makes too damn big a deal about dumping and steelworkers losing jobs. I mean geez, if Japanese make too much steel and sell it over here at a very low cost, then the US consumer does great in that deal. >>


Uh huh...it's always a good idea to become so dependant on another countries product that they end up having you by the nads.....just look at our dependence on oil. >>


Look, if we (America) COULD produce oil at a lower cost than we could get it overseas, you know what? We WOULD. But we can't. OPEC doesn't have us by the nads. We could buy our oil somewhere else (like Russia, for example, who's been going under OPEC's price). But if OPEC sells it to us for $25 per barrel and the cost to produce it here is $40, then why in the world would we buy oil from domestic companies if it costs us that much more?

Simple economics. This isn't a political issue.
 
Arschloch

Point made, but lt's talk about countries that are even remotely close to us economy wise. Isreal for instance. There whole country is largely subsidized with US taxpayer dollars.

Traiffs are just another bargaining chip.

The oil situation is quite different. There is a finite amount of oil. We have no idea when and if that might ever become a problem, but it only makes sense to save our own reserves for a later date. It is political to be sur but in the long run makes a lot of sense.

Oil and it's price has a huge effect on our economy where steel is only a very minor ingredient.

It woulds also seem to me that many would applaud this as a way to keep prices higher and give other industries a boost. The Alloy industry wants to make automobiles completely out of alloys...the first totally recyclable car! Without some form of price protection and the steel tariff can be viewed as such, the move to do this might be delayed for years...

Look at grain subsidies to alloy their oils to be used as motor fuel for instance...
 


<< Like the Brits don't have any tariffs....tell me something I can believe...

The British economy is stagnant compared to the US. The opportunity for real growth is here. The Japanese have been dumping steel here for a long while. They sell it for less than it costs to make.

If we erected the same barriers to so-called 'free trade' that most European countries have it would nearly bankrupt many countries includeing Canada and Mexico.

I'm for free trade as long as it is on equal footing. In this case the evidence proves that it is not. >>



British economy stagnant compared to the US - What - your having a laugh.

Japanese dumping steel on the US so the rest of the world have to suffer.

The truth is because of poor investment and lack of modernisation, US steel mills have become very inefficient, have poor productivity and therefore have become very very expensive when compared to the competition. They have also allowed themselves to be tied into worker benefits policies which they can ill afford and this alone is sucking the companies dry.

The current action, although in the short term protecting jobs in the US steel industry will in the long term force up prices of all US manufatured goods. The eventual outcome will be the destruction of those very industries and jobs this draconian action was supposed to protect.

Still you carry on believing what you are told.
 


<<

<< The cost to the consumer is in the tenth's of a cent for most items and only a few bucks in the price of a car. >>


Those tenths of cents per percent of tariff add up. Furthermore, economic theory tells us that any change in the price of a good (for example, an increase of an automobile price by $50) DOES affect demand for the product. So even though you may not view it as an important increase, I imagine that some people do. It definitely affects your disposable income either way.



<< We have fewer barriers to trade than ANY nation on earth! >>


I beg to differ.
According to freetheworld.com, the US's mean tariff rate is 4.8%, which is quite good.
Singapore is at 0.4%, and Hong Kong is at 0.0%. Norway is at 4.1%. New Zealand is at 3.8%. Israel is 2.0%. Iceland is 1.9%. >>



The UK was at 3.5 in 2001 and does the term VAT mean anything to you..I think in the UK it is approaching 20%





value-added tax
(VAT) levy imposed on business at all levels of the
manufacture and production of a good or service and
based on the increase in price, or value, provided by
each level. Because the consumer ultimately pays a
higher price for the taxed commodity, a VAT is
essentially a hidden sales tax. Originally introduced
in France (1954), it is now a major part of the tax
structure of most Western European nations. In the
early 1990s the U.S. government considered
instituting a VAT to fund national health care
programs.
 
You show a real comprehention of what is going on. It's great that you only think of YOURSELF. What about industry here in America? Our steel industry is falling apart and something needs to be done. This was the solution chosen? Do you think that a bunch of people just sat down and said "Hey! Let's screw the Brits this week!"? No, they didn't. You people that think this is "unfair" are just jelous of America, and when we start to falter and need a crutch to stablize us, you start whinning about this and that. We are people too. We need jobs and money. We are NOT out to screw the rest of the world. We are just trying to compete in a global market, just like everyone else. How did America come about? Because of Brittain and their TARRIFS!!! Yes, you people do it too. You did it then and you do it now. We do it too. It's not a bad thing. It's an economic tool. Get an education so you don't make such foolish remarks.
 


<< You show a real comprehention of what is going on. It's great that you only think of YOURSELF. What about industry here in America? Our steel industry is falling apart and something needs to be done. This was the solution chosen? Do you think that a bunch of people just sat down and said "Hey! Let's screw the Brits this week!"? No, they didn't. You people that think this is "unfair" are just jelous of America, and when we start to falter and need a crutch to stablize us, you start whinning about this and that. We are people too. We need jobs and money. We are NOT out to screw the rest of the world. We are just trying to compete in a global market, just like everyone else. How did America come about? Because of Brittain and their TARRIFS!!! Yes, you people do it too. You did it then and you do it now. We do it too. It's not a bad thing. It's an economic tool. Get an education so you don't make such foolish remarks. >>


I would just like to remark that I AM an American, so therefore I really can't be jealous of Americans.

I am not complaining that it's unfair to other countries. I am complaining that it's unfair to the American consumer, as well as to the steel-consuming industries in America.

Being both an Economist and Libertarian, I'm about as pro-free trade as one can be. My ideas are well-thought out, and I -am- well-educated. Tariffs and quotas are economic tools, but they are BAD ones. I think that given my education, I'm more qualified to make that statement than most people.

People need to stop thinking that if you disagree with anything America does, then you must be either jealous of America (if you're foreign), or a "bleeding-heart liberal."
 


<< You show a real comprehention of what is going on. It's great that you only think of YOURSELF. What about industry here in America? Our steel industry is falling apart and something needs to be done. This was the solution chosen? Do you think that a bunch of people just sat down and said "Hey! Let's screw the Brits this week!"? No, they didn't. You people that think this is "unfair" are just jelous of America, and when we start to falter and need a crutch to stablize us, you start whinning about this and that. We are people too. We need jobs and money. We are NOT out to screw the rest of the world. We are just trying to compete in a global market, just like everyone else. How did America come about? Because of Brittain and their TARRIFS!!! Yes, you people do it too. You did it then and you do it now. We do it too. It's not a bad thing. It's an economic tool. Get an education so you don't make such foolish remarks. >>



I have been involved in numerous discussions that border this case. usually when someone accuses EU of protectionism it's bad and it "proves that EU can't compete with USA". But now that tables are turned, when inefficient and bloated US steel-producers are taking it up their collective arses from lean 'n mean foreign competitors it OK to use tariffs and quotas to protect them.

So in short: when/if foreign countries use tariffs/quotas it's bad, evil, anti-american and anti-capitalist. But when USA does the exact same thing it's OK and acceptable.
rolleye.gif


Using tariffs is just wrong. It just tells the industry that they don't have to really compete. If they start losing (like they have been doing) they can just go cry to the government who will pat their backs and use tariffs to protect them.

Those steel-producers should instead look themselves in the mirror and say "this crisis is my own doing. I got lazy and content, and now I pay the price".
 


<< You show a real comprehention of what is going on. It's great that you only think of YOURSELF. What about industry here in America? Our steel industry is falling apart and something needs to be done. This was the solution chosen? Do you think that a bunch of people just sat down and said "Hey! Let's screw the Brits this week!"? No, they didn't. You people that think this is "unfair" are just jelous of America, and when we start to falter and need a crutch to stablize us, you start whinning about this and that. We are people too. We need jobs and money. We are NOT out to screw the rest of the world. We are just trying to compete in a global market, just like everyone else. How did America come about? Because of Brittain and their TARRIFS!!! Yes, you people do it too. You did it then and you do it now. We do it too. It's not a bad thing. It's an economic tool. Get an education so you don't make such foolish remarks. >>




um, not everybody who has economic sense is against america....
 
Newton

I believe that if you look at the history of the steel industry you will find a huge amount of Japanese investment and ownership.

You cannot modernise an industry that for 30 years has been hanging on by it's fingernails....that is unless you subsidize that modernization like the UK and Japan did....talk to me about Free Trade...no such thing...
 


<< Private economists predict the tariff regime will increase domestic prices by 6 to 8 percent in the first year. If fully passed on to consumers ? not a sure thing by any means ? that would raise the price of a $30,000 car by about $50 or a washing machine by fewer than $5. Such increases are probably not enough to substantially affect sales. >>


Click

I'd like to applaud the President for taking such action. Though I think he should have went furthur.

It has always sickened me when we give these countries financial aid and they turn around and use some of that money to subsidize their industries to take away American jobs.

I'm ALL for free trade. But it should be done fairly!
 


<< I'd like to applaud the President for taking such action. Though I think he should have went furthur.

It has always sickened me when we give these countries financial aid and they turn around and use some of that money to subsidize their industries to take away American jobs.

I'm ALL for free trade. But it should be done fairly! >>


Think about what you're saying for a minute.

Let's say the US gives a country $X, and the country uses that money to subsidize an inefficient industry. The companies in this country's industry are then able to sell their products at a lower cost than American producers are able to.

What happens? The US consumer, as a whole, comes out ahead -- we can pay less money for the same goods by buying the foreign product. The people who work in the same industry here in America come out worse -- their products are in less demand because they cost more. If we assume that taxes are already collected (i.e., the American consumer won't have to worry about having to pay more in taxes to pay for this subsidy), then the US government of course comes out worse, as they are the ones giving out the subsidy and making a dent in their budget.

In other words, if this (admittedly oversimplified) example describes what's happening, then the VAST majority of Americans come out ahead because they can get a product cheaper, and as long as they don't work in the industry, they won't lose their job either.

If steel workers losing their jobs bothers you that much, then the answer is to make the countries stop using US government money to subsidize their industry. The correct response isn't to get involved in a tariff war. That contributed to the beginning of the Great Depression, so you'd think people would have learned by now.
 
Nemesis77, Czar, Newton, ...

it's pointless to argue with some of our american friends on anything that they see as an "anti-american" post.
they are so blinded by their patriotism that all the facts in the world can not convince them.

you should know that by now 😉

 


<< Using tariffs is just wrong. >>





<< The European Commission said in a statement the EU might be forced to take trade measures of its own to protect itself from a wave of steel imports from other producers it fears may now be diverted from the United States. >>



Carefull pointing fingers.
 
Bush's tariffs are a sham; however, you have to understand the political undertones. GWB knew that other countries would complain to the WTO...he might not even care. He was able to put forth a face to blue-collar workers in the industrialized northern states that he "cares" about their jobs, even if the tariffs are poor economic policy. If the tariffs get shot down by the WTO, I don't think he'd care, i.e. he can say it wasn't his fault that American industry couldn't be "protected". If he didn't push for the tariffs, then it would provide campaign fodder for congressional Democrats. He didn't want that, so he pushed for something that may not be allowed to go through.

This happens all the time. Politicians play it safe. Why do you think some Democrats went along with Bush's tax cuts? Because they knew they were going to pass Congress, so they didn't want to vote against them and have to fend off criticism that they are nothing but tax-and-spenders during campaign time.
 
it's pointless to argue with some of our american friends on anything that they see as an "anti-american" post.
they are so blinded by their patriotism that all the facts in the world can not convince them.

on a side note, this has nothing to do with patriotism... it's just a difference of opinion as to what is best for the economy.
 
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