US walks out on Ahmadinejad UN speech

[Scotteq]

Not necessarily disagreeing with your post here, and I don't want to be a nitpicker, but you have it reversed. It would be cognitive dissonance if he did believe it, not if he was lying. Cognitive disonance is how we internally rationalize and harmonize contradictory thoughts and beliefs. Saying something you don't believe is just lying.

- wolf

Yes - Cognitive Dissonance is when you hold beliefs to be true which are contradictory to each other.

Not whether said beliefs are actually true in the ultimate sense. Generally, one then will seek reasons to justify those contradictory beliefs in some manner. i.e. "I believe the world will end on December 21, 2012", and then on the 22nd the dissonance caused by you being forced to confront the fact you're obviously wrong will cause you to invent some reason why you were either actually right or were somehow justified in that belief. (i.e. I interpreted the math wrong, and the new date is ****)

Cognitive Dissonance exists in that person's head. Not in our (external to the Lier) judgment or understanding of what is really the truth. It's a mis application of the term unless you can show that Ahmedinejad has beliefs which are contradictory to other beliefs he himself holds to be true.

..and given that he's a politician: How could anyone possibly know whether he believes what he is saying, or is just saying it?


Anyways - Nitpick the right guy: The Dissonance occurs when you have to confront that your beliefs are wrong. If you don't come to understand and therefore have to confront that you are wrong, then there is no Dissonance. If you are lying and you know it, then there is no Dissonance because you are already fully aware you are propagating a falsehood.

 

[bfdd]

Wait, so a lot of you actually believe the man is insane?

Yes, he's insane by my standards. I'm really quite surprised at you, you constantly say you're not an apologist, but here you are really quick to make it sound like this guy isn't a nut job.

 

[SandEagle]

Yes, he's insane by my standards. I'm really quite surprised at you, you constantly say you're not an apologist, but here you are really quick to make it sound like this guy isn't a nut job.

outside of the US, i wonder how many people in other countries think he's a nutjob? reason i ask is because he was greeted by applause many times at the UN meeting. i haven't read the text of his speech yet.

http://liveshots.blogs.foxnews.com/2010/09/23/applause-for-ahmadinejad/

September 23, 2010 - 5:39 PM | by: Eric Shawn He was greeted by applause when he walked into the United Nations General Assembly, and applauded again, even after questioning 9/11 and claiming that the American government may have been behind the attack.
That’s right, applauded after questioning the motivation for the terrorist attacks, who was responsible for them, and essentially suggesting they were a U.S. plot.
Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has made a variety of claims over the years during his appearances here, but he never has gone this far when talking about 9/11.
During his General Assembly address, the Iranian President called for a “U.N. fact finding group” to investigate 9/11.
He also said that ”the majority of the American people as well as most nations and politicians around the world” believe that “some segments within the U.S. government orchestrated the attack to reverse the declining of the American economy and its grips on the Middle East in order to save the Zionist regime.”
Before his speech, the Obama administration must have had high hopes that Ahmadinejad would have listened to the offers of diplomacy as presented by the administration and its allies on the Security Council. Members of the U.S. delegation remained in their seats. In years past, only what is called a “low-level note taker” has often been posted behind the little plastic “United States” sign, when Ahmadinejad took the stage.
On Tuesday, when Ahmadinejad spoke during the global summit on poverty, the American delegation remained even as he predicted the defeat of capitalism.
But true to form, he quickly went over the line with his 9/11 remarks and that prompted the U.S. diplomats, and others, to get up and walk out.
“ It’s outrageous,” said State Department spokesman P.J. Crowley. “a short distance from here, nine years ago, three-thousand people were killed in an attack perpetrated by nineteen people, and an attack that was orchestrated by Al Qaeda. We know exactly who did it, they’ve admitted it, the facts are not in dispute, so for the President of Iran to come here and make the suggestion that somehow this was an American plot, is simply outrageous.”
But as Ahmadinejad walked from the podium, he did so rewarded by applause in the august chamber of the world body.

 

[Orignal Earl]

Yes, he's insane by my standards. I'm really quite surprised at you, you constantly say you're not an apologist, but here you are really quick to make it sound like this guy isn't a nut job.

He's not a nut job. You can't hold a position like that and be insane at the same time.
Like has been said here between my post and yours, the man says what he does for lots of reasons.
I also think that it is an American thing, to paint their enemies as insane.

 

[Sinsear]

LaLalalalalala, if a tree falls in the forest, and I did not hear it because I put on ear plugs, did the tree really fall? And will the tree magically re-erect itself because I had me trusty ear plugs on.

And if the tree falls in my back yard and crushes my car, will my ear plugs uncrush my car?

But then again if a serial motor mouth like Achinejhad says something, why not give him a polite listen, and then watch everyone else scream bullshit.

Ear plugs are only for arrogant in denial wimps. Real men and women confront false arguments and don't wimp out into some twilight zone of incredible denial.

Not surprising you would give him an endorsement. He does fund your movement after all.

 

[Orignal Earl]

He can now go home the triumphant hero.
The Americans walked out and would not even offer a word in their defense.
They must be guilty. (I see this argument here all the time)

 

[JEDIYoda]

He can now go home the triumphant hero.
The Americans walked out and would not even offer a word in their defense.
They must be guilty. (I see this argument here all the time)

As if we care about what you see....

 

[Orignal Earl]

As if we care about what you see....

lol

 

[bfdd]

He can now go home the triumphant hero.
The Americans walked out and would not even offer a word in their defense.
They must be guilty. (I see this argument here all the time)

rofl, crazy doesn't deserve an answer moron.

He's not a nut job. You can't hold a position like that and be insane at the same time.
Like has been said here between my post and yours, the man says what he does for lots of reasons.
I also think that it is an American thing, to paint their enemies as insane.

Yes he is fucking crazy, crazies can and do get in positions of power every now. Seriously though you need to share the kool aid, that shit seems bomb as fuck.

 

[Orignal Earl]

rofl, crazy doesn't deserve an answer moron.


Yes he is fucking crazy, crazies can and do get in positions of power every now. Seriously though you need to share the kool aid, that shit seems bomb as fuck.

Can you hook me up with some links from someone of authority who believes he is clinically insane?
There must be plenty eh, insane world leaders would get a lot publicity

 

[bfdd]

Can you hook me up with some links from someone of authority who believes he is clinically insane?
There must be plenty eh, insane world leaders would get a lot publicity

The guy got up in front of the UN and said "the USA blew up their own buildings so Israel could stay in power." Now.... who says shit like that? Crazy people. Crazy people say shit like that. He didn't say it on a blog or in an interview, no he got up in front of world leaders and decided to say the stupidest fucking shit he could think of. That's how I know he's crazy. Just as Stalin was fucking crazy. But whatever Earl I'm obviously the bigoted one.

 

[Orignal Earl]

The guy got up in front of the UN and said "the USA blew up their own buildings so Israel could stay in power." Now.... who says shit like that? Crazy people. Crazy people say shit like that. He didn't say it on a blog or in an interview, no he got up in front of world leaders and decided to say the stupidest fucking shit he could think of. That's how I know he's crazy. Just as Stalin was fucking crazy. But whatever Earl I'm obviously the bigoted one.

So no links to anyone in authority eh
I never said anything about being bigoted, you can assume someone is crazy all you want, that don't make it true.
edit-Are the rest of leaders who stayed and applauded insane also?

 

[bfdd]

So no links to anyone in authority eh
I never said anything about being bigoted, you can assume someone is crazy all you want, that don't make it true.
edit-Are the rest of leaders who stayed and applauded insane also?

You know what your asking is impossible to produce, that's why you're asking it. Fact is the dude has probably never sat down with any form of psychiatric help and if he had it would be in his OWN nation where I doubt anyone would certify him insane out of fear of their life. I also don't need to be a "pro" to be able to figure out anyone willing to say what he did when he did is fucking crazy. This isn't the first time he's said stupid ass shit like this anyways. The dude is fucking insane, deal with it. There have been other crazies who have led nations in the past and if you're one of the "Bush was a fucking moron" people, then please explain to me how it is possible for a moron to get into power, but not a crazy.

No the people who stayed are not crazy, that's a fucking stupid thing to say.

 

[Orignal Earl]

You know what your asking is impossible to produce, that's why you're asking it. Fact is the dude has probably never sat down with any form of psychiatric help and if he had it would be in his OWN nation where I doubt anyone would certify him insane out of fear of their life. I also don't need to be a "pro" to be able to figure out anyone willing to say what he did when he did is fucking crazy. This isn't the first time he's said stupid ass shit like this anyways. The dude is fucking insane, deal with it. There have been other crazies who have led nations in the past and if you're one of the "Bush was a fucking moron" people, then please explain to me how it is possible for a moron to get into power, but not a crazy.

No the people who stayed are not crazy, that's a fucking stupid thing to say.

Alrighty..

 

[bfdd]

Alrighty..

Earl, please explain how this man is not crazy. You've yet to make an argument against it. Just because someone isn't certified, doesn't mean they're not crazy. Just because the person is a leader of a nation, doesn't mean they're not crazy. So explain how this douche bag isn't crazy.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

You know what your asking is impossible to produce, that's why you're asking it. Fact is the dude has probably never sat down with any form of psychiatric help and if he had it would be in his OWN nation where I doubt anyone would certify him insane out of fear of their life. I also don't need to be a "pro" to be able to figure out anyone willing to say what he did when he did is fucking crazy. This isn't the first time he's said stupid ass shit like this anyways. The dude is fucking insane, deal with it. There have been other crazies who have led nations in the past and if you're one of the "Bush was a fucking moron" people, then please explain to me how it is possible for a moron to get into power, but not a crazy.

No the people who stayed are not crazy, that's a fucking stupid thing to say.

He, like Stalin or Kim Jong Il are not insane people, they could be members of any conservative party, they realise that as long as their presented words reach their population they will stand beside them, root out all other information and show speeches such as this one.

If he had said anything but what he's saying, he'd be opposing his own position, THEN he would be insane and probably very dead very fast.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Earl, please explain how this man is not crazy. You've yet to make an argument against it. Just because someone isn't certified, doesn't mean they're not crazy. Just because the person is a leader of a nation, doesn't mean they're not crazy. So explain how this douche bag isn't crazy.

Earl has no clue...just check his answers on the forums..
99% of the time he is asking questions instead of giving answers...

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Earl, please explain how this man is not crazy. You've yet to make an argument against it. Just because someone isn't certified, doesn't mean they're not crazy. Just because the person is a leader of a nation, doesn't mean they're not crazy. So explain how this douche bag isn't crazy.

There is too much we do not know to draw a proper conclusion. Since much if not all of what he says is for domestic consumption and the rather repressive governments in his region encourage this rather bizarre line of thinking to encourage hostility to the west, is he acting as a propaganda minister and knows its bs or has he become so deluded he believes it? I know I can't tell.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

There is too much we do not know to draw a proper conclusion. Since much if not all of what he says is for domestic consumption and the rather repressive governments in his region encourage this rather bizarre line of thinking to encourage hostility to the west, is he acting as a propaganda minister and knows its bs or has he become so deluded he reeves it? I know I can't tell.

Yeah, he pretty much only has to do well in his own nation and he'll be rich, successful and treated as a king.

That's how dictatorships work.

I will say that he and the Mullahs did try to get in on the Iraq war and that was one point when it might have been a good thing to just slow down and perhaps have Iran in on it but it had to be done immediatly, you know, before that mushroom cloud that was about to hit NY at any time.

That would have opened up another venue of cooperation but we pretty much told them to stay out, that's why they are pursuing nuclear weapons, who wants to be the next Iraq?

 

[Orignal Earl]

Earl, please explain how this man is not crazy. You've yet to make an argument against it. Just because someone isn't certified, doesn't mean they're not crazy. Just because the person is a leader of a nation, doesn't mean they're not crazy. So explain how this douche bag isn't crazy.

I can't explain it any better then it has already been explained.

Earl has no clue...just check hios answers on the forums..
99% of the time he is asking questions instead of giving answers...

Forgive me JediYodi .. I am not as smart as you, the force is not with me

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Earl has no clue...just check hios answers on the forums..
99% of the time he is asking questions instead of giving answers...

What is the best way to find answers?

I know you don't need them, you already have them and if they are wrong or right doesn't matter in the least to you.

 

[bfdd]

He, like Stalin or Kim Jong Il are not insane people, they could be members of any conservative party, they realise that as long as their presented words reach their population they will stand beside them, root out all other information and show speeches such as this one.

If he had said anything but what he's saying, he'd be opposing his own position, THEN he would be insane and probably very dead very fast.

So because they could be members of "any conservative party" they aren't insane? Any party these guys could align themselves with and would align themselves with them is insane too.

 

[JEDIYoda]

What is the best way to find answers?

I know you don't need them, you already have them and if they are wrong or right doesn't matter in the least to you.

actually JohnOfShelleild how are you this fine day?

My attempt at humor was not taken too well!

What do you say to somebody who always asks questions, yet also adds his own crticism to things but can`t back up why he said what he said??

Ah..he could be related to Sarah Palin...

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

So because they could be members of "any conservative party" they aren't insane? Any party these guys could align themselves with and would align themselves with them is insane too.

First of all, what i meant to say was "any dictator from a conservative party", i didn't mean like the US or the UK or any other western world conservative party.

Not really insane, they are at the top, looking down, keeping their power by the means they know work.

 

[Orignal Earl]

What do you say to somebody who always asks questions, yet also adds his own crticism to things but can`t back up why he said what he said??

Ah..he could be related to Sarah Palin...

If it's my own crticism then how do I back it up?
Can you show examples.