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US vetoes UN resolution on Israeli settlements
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Lemon law
Lifer
The Flaw in the Common Courtesy argument is that its does not have to be a win lose proposition. In 1948 Israel was automatically unacceptable to its Arab neighbors and needed the weapons to survive. Now Israel has the only nukes in the mid-east so its survival is assured.
Yet, at this point in time, the surrounding Arab States are ready to accept the existence of Israel, but Israel will have to permit a Palestinian State.
A win win situation is always better than a win lose situation. If Israel wants to ever be an accepted part of the mid-east, it has to stop acting like the neighbor from hell. That is the problem now, Israel seemingly delights in bullying its neighbors. And Israel just lost its only two mid-east allies in the space of less than a year. Alliances that took 30 years to build.
Yet, at this point in time, the surrounding Arab States are ready to accept the existence of Israel, but Israel will have to permit a Palestinian State.
A win win situation is always better than a win lose situation. If Israel wants to ever be an accepted part of the mid-east, it has to stop acting like the neighbor from hell. That is the problem now, Israel seemingly delights in bullying its neighbors. And Israel just lost its only two mid-east allies in the space of less than a year. Alliances that took 30 years to build.
the Palestinians are not ready for a state of their own.
that was demonstrated last year.
They would not show up for negotiations when their terms were meant.
then they started asking for additional terms.
then when they had a chance to leverage the displeasure in the Israeli government, they did not.
Hamas also stated that they would not accept anything from Fatah.
then you have the leaks that showed that the FATAH Palestinians were unable to have the authority to make any deals.
Which explain all the stalling that was being pointed out by the Palestinians and being blamed on Israel by the Pal supporters.
Fatah is unable to come to the table with any authority to finalize a Palestinian state.
Hamas will not come to the table.
So, there is no authority within the Palestinian communiity to setup a state.
How can this be blamed on Israel - the Palestinians again are their own worst enemy!
Lemon law
Lifer
The Palestinians are more ready for a State than Isr4ael was in 1948, and, no, Its pn;y a great lie Israeli talking point to say the Palestinians are their own worst enemy.
Israel, for selfish reasons of its own, is trying to illegally settle on land in the West Bank and East Jerusalem that it can never own. Its been the same Israeli story for 20 years or more, Israel will talk and talk, settle and settle, but never will Israel ever agree to anything.
Everyone but a few stupid pro-Israeli fan clubbers cannot clearly see the game Israel is playing. The day is coming ever closer when the USA must choose totally alienating the Arabs, our own allies, and the rest of the world, or playing the part of Israel's poodle.
Israel, for selfish reasons of its own, is trying to illegally settle on land in the West Bank and East Jerusalem that it can never own. Its been the same Israeli story for 20 years or more, Israel will talk and talk, settle and settle, but never will Israel ever agree to anything.
Everyone but a few stupid pro-Israeli fan clubbers cannot clearly see the game Israel is playing. The day is coming ever closer when the USA must choose totally alienating the Arabs, our own allies, and the rest of the world, or playing the part of Israel's poodle.
ROFL @ LEMON LAW! "THE PAST DOESN'T MATTER... UNLESS IT WAS SOMETHING THAT I CAN USE TO MAKE ISRAEL LOOK BAD" Hey LL if you want to talk about "current" then the Palestinians are the problem. How come they never came to the table? Huh? WHy didn't they? Settlements were stopped, it was a perfect time to really negotiate, but they didn't.
The Palestinians have fucked themselves by being ignorant douche bags, but it's ok you guys are morons so I'll let it slide.
The Palestinians have fucked themselves by being ignorant douche bags, but it's ok you guys are morons so I'll let it slide.
If the Palestinians want to apply world pressure then they have to show that it is Israel that is at fault.
Up to this point, the world has seen that it is the Palestinians that can not decide what they want to do.
You can try to spin it all you want, but it is the Palestinians that have failed to deliver and chose to not even try. Such is documented in their own words; not something made up by Israel or the US.
The Arabs did not want a country of Palestine and the Palestinians nowdays can not figure out what they need to do in order to become a country.
The Palestinians were a lightning rod to distract for the internal problems that the Arab states were having; well, those internal problems have compeltely surfaced and the Arabs states are striving to find themselves (for good or bad). No one is again concerned about the Palestinians - they had their opportunity for center stage and walked off rather than accepting the mike.
JEDIYoda
Lifer
Thats a really truly ignorant statement!
The problem is that you know nothing of the past history concerning the UN.....if the US is Israels lap dog then a case can be made that the UN is the lapdog of all those who oppose Israel!
Take a look at the glaring disproportionate one sided amount of resolutions against Israel verses any resolutions against Palestine...or Hamas or those who would like to see the demise of Israel.
JEDIYoda
Lifer
Exactly!! You can talk about the Palestinians shooting themselves in the foot....they were given the perfect platform by Israel recently to sit down and talk thus putting Israel in a huge public relations bind if Israel decided to walk out of talks. Yet the Palestinians could not sit down with the Israeli`s.
My guess as to why they refused to take the opportunity was because as CC has said many times the Palestinians need to talk with one voice.
How can you sit down and negotiate when somebody who refuses to attand the meeting has veto power......in the case of Palestine they have way too many Chiefs and not enough Indians!
I care nothing about Palestine or Hamas, this discussion is about the US veto of the resolution. Just like any resolution that comes through which makes Israel look like a bad guy, or to do something against Israeli's bidding (settlements), we veto.
We are their lap dog. Israel always gets what it wants when it comes to the UN because Israel is the puppet master, and we're just doing a little dance.
Lemon law
Lifer
One day Israel will rely on the USA to veto a resolution against them, and the USA will simply abstain. And when that happens, the Israeli jig will be up.
But there is something in Obama, once he makes an effort, he does not give up easily. My guess, Obama will call for another settlement freeze soon, and there may be a very large Israeli price to pay if Israel does not grant it.
That and the variable of what the Arab States and EU does. The USA may find itself no longer being the broker of a mid-east settlement period.
But there is something in Obama, once he makes an effort, he does not give up easily. My guess, Obama will call for another settlement freeze soon, and there may be a very large Israeli price to pay if Israel does not grant it.
That and the variable of what the Arab States and EU does. The USA may find itself no longer being the broker of a mid-east settlement period.
ME brokerage has not amounted to a hill of beans.
Israel has demonstrated that they will not do what ever the US wants for the sake of politics.
The Palestinians have demonstrated that they can not think for themselves
Until the Palestinians get their ducks in order; they are hurting themselves.
When one speaks with a forked tongue, no one can understand what one says.
the settlements are a visible issue in a play for sympathy; yet it also shows the world how manipulative the Palestinians and their supporters are. They are able to sweep the failures of the Palestinians and the Arabs under the rug by painting Israel as the bad guys.
Both sides are at fault and once the Palestinians realize that, then they can make progress. as long as they try to play the injured card, Israel will ignore them andcontinue on.
Destiny is in the Palestinian hands again for the umpteenth time. Will they again fumble, then complain about the rules after they play the game?
Israel has demonstrated that they will not do what ever the US wants for the sake of politics.
The Palestinians have demonstrated that they can not think for themselves
Until the Palestinians get their ducks in order; they are hurting themselves.
When one speaks with a forked tongue, no one can understand what one says.
the settlements are a visible issue in a play for sympathy; yet it also shows the world how manipulative the Palestinians and their supporters are. They are able to sweep the failures of the Palestinians and the Arabs under the rug by painting Israel as the bad guys.
Both sides are at fault and once the Palestinians realize that, then they can make progress. as long as they try to play the injured card, Israel will ignore them andcontinue on.
Destiny is in the Palestinian hands again for the umpteenth time. Will they again fumble, then complain about the rules after they play the game?
Karl Agathon
Golden Member
Lots of them from what I understand. The U.S. could cut off aid tomorrow, but all those nukes they have wouldnt automatically disappear. Of course, many Jew/Israel haters wouldnt really care if most the middle east glowed in the dark, because in the end, they just want Israel to be destroyed. The total destruction of islamic religious shrines, middle eastern capital cities and millions of non Israeli people would just be collateral damage to them. Sure, they might feign outrage and sadness, but deep down, they would be salivating at the fact that all those Jews would be slaughtered.
Karl Agathon
Golden Member
Gaddafi is still having people killed and now even slaughtered by fighter jets and helicopter gunships. Yet the UN has not met to condemn this? You're right, it seems the UN is a joke. The silence is deafening
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QuantumPion
Diamond Member
How will passing a UN resolution against Israel mean the "jig will be up"? What do you mean by that? You think the UN will declare war against Israel? :hmm:
LL seem to think that the world will embargo Israel and force her to capitulate to Palestinian demands. The only thing stopping such is the US.
Ignoring the fact that the US is the only thing preventing ISrael from destroying those that continue to attack her.
See, if Israel did not have the support of the US, then the first strike that she makes in any conflict will have to be terminal; she can not afford a drawn out conflict.
Lemon law
Lifer
Oh god damn, how stupid can you get Common Courtesy? Do you really really think that a lack of US support will give Israel a license to attack all its neighbors for no cause? You crazy man Common Courtesy!
At the end of the day, Israel will simply find itself facing the same international economic embargo that other Apartheid State of South Africa faced.
Smell the damn coffee, the USA was the only member of the UN Securaty council that vetoed that universal Israeli condemnation.
As it is, the rest of the world is waiting for the Bozo Netanyuhu government to fall, and then the prospects for mid-east peace brighten significantly.
Do you really really think, that somehow think, that bat shit crazy Israeli settler parties can define future Israeli policy and get away with it?
At the end of the day, Israel will simply find itself facing the same international economic embargo that other Apartheid State of South Africa faced.
Smell the damn coffee, the USA was the only member of the UN Securaty council that vetoed that universal Israeli condemnation.
As it is, the rest of the world is waiting for the Bozo Netanyuhu government to fall, and then the prospects for mid-east peace brighten significantly.
Do you really really think, that somehow think, that bat shit crazy Israeli settler parties can define future Israeli policy and get away with it?
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JEDIYoda
Lifer
How convenient to use the UN when it agrees with your batshit interpretation of things.
You also know that if any one organization was bias against Israel it surely is the UN.....
But thats not your matter after all as long as they agree with you both you and the Un make wonderful bedfellows!!
Lemon law
Lifer
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Well JediY, go right ahead and dismiss the UN as the voice of the larger international community? Leaving Israel, no more than 10 million, v the larger world of 4 or five billion.
The only thing that saved Israeli butt this time was a UN veto in the security council this time was a US veto.
it'll be interesting to see how US middle-eastern policy shapes if more peoples' revolutions occur across the region. the traditional pro-israeli argument of extending democracy won't be as effective. possibilities of a neo-islamic caliphate could nullify any political reforms between american-israeli governments that might occur.
Karl Agathon
Golden Member
I wonder? Has the UN been acting as "the voice of the larger international community" as Gaddafi has been mercilessly slaughtering his own people? Or, is the UN currently only a one issue body?
Freshgeardude
Diamond Member
clearly israel being first at anything in the middle east backfires.
they pulled out of lebanon, hezbollah.
they pulled out of gaza, hamas.
so why should they keep going at it first?
Lemon law
Lifer
The part issue is and remains, Israel is the only nation with Nuclear weapons in the mid-east. We can also ask the question if some other mid-east nations will join Israel in having nuclear weapons. But we can ask if nuclear weapons will gain Israel any mid-east credibility or friends?
Freshgeardude
Diamond Member
oh thats nice. 1948.
I wasnt aware that jews didnt exist in israel before 1948 and that every jew just magically appeared when the war started happily kicking out all those palestinians
you know.... the land that was given to the jews in the partition plan was pretty divided based on where the jewish settlements were.
and lets not forget your link.
yea... I like this part "left, fled or were expelled from their homes"
so they fall into 3 categories.
1. left
2. fled
3. expelled
Do you have a historically and widely accepted report which CLEARLY divides the "exact number of actual refugees" as per the wiki link, there is no accurate number, and even if they did have a number, lets just use 725k, how many fall into category 1? 2? 3? multiple?
you dont know.
for all I know, 700k fled or left. 25k were expelled.
it could very be the other way around.
but you dont know. I dont know. and certainly LL doesnt know because every time I bring this up he wont directly answer it or completely ignores it.
and as such, makes your entire argument moot and invalid.
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