US UK deny WMD was rationale for war

BaliBabyDoc

Lifer
Jan 20, 2001
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This war was NEVER about WMD . . . who said that . . . must have been the liberal media.
White House officials and British ministers on Monday both said the removal of the Iraqi dictator justified the war regardless of whether he ever had banned weapons.
I must have missed the day Bush gave THAT speech at the UN.

The Bush administration said it intended to eventually review pre-war intelligence on Iraq's weapons of mass destruction.
Don't rush . . . it's not like our intelligence agencies need to be reliable or anything.
rolleye.gif
 
Jan 12, 2003
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I thought it was just to prove the effectiveness (or the lack thereof) of the baggy-pants college kids who were marching to the "No War for Oil" tune...
 

syzygy

Diamond Member
Feb 5, 2001
3,038
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you can thank the campaign for revealing all that we know about the true state of saddam's capabilities, which included
clandestine labs and an ultimate desire to resume wmd production once the sanctions were lifted.
 

Vadatajs

Diamond Member
Aug 28, 2001
3,475
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Originally posted by: xxxxxJohnGaltxxxxx
I thought it was just to prove the effectiveness (or the lack thereof) of the baggy-pants college kids who were marching to the "No War for Oil" tune...

?????

That doesn't even begin to make sense.
 

Zephyr106

Banned
Jul 2, 2003
1,309
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Originally posted by: xxxxxJohnGaltxxxxx
I thought it was just to prove the effectiveness (or the lack thereof) of the baggy-pants college kids who were marching to the "No War for Oil" tune...

What about those apelike college kids with brown skin that should be lynched? Or the Jew infidel college kids who should be gassed?

Zephyr
 

lozina

Lifer
Sep 10, 2001
11,711
8
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Originally posted by: Czar
and the sadest thing of it all, people will buy it

Many have already bought this spin long time ago. Some people are thrilled with having someone give them an exaggerated, histerical sky-is-falling doomsday prophecy speech to coerce them into supporting something, only to later say 'oh well it wasn't really that important, the ends justifies the means!'.
 

dahunan

Lifer
Jan 10, 2002
18,191
3
0
ON THE ASSUMPTION that sometimes you can tell more about a presidency by what a president doesn't put in the State of the Union speech than what he does, here are the Top 10 facts and issues that President George W. Bush neglected to mention in this year's speech.

5. Any mention of the following items in last year's State of the Union speech: 25,000 liters of anthrax; 38,000 liters of botulinum toxin; 500 tons of sarin, mustard and VX nerve gas; or those 16 words about uranium from Niger.

Items missing from most recent State Of The Union Address
 

lozina

Lifer
Sep 10, 2001
11,711
8
81
Originally posted by: dahunan
ON THE ASSUMPTION that sometimes you can tell more about a presidency by what a president doesn't put in the State of the Union speech than what he does, here are the Top 10 facts and issues that President George W. Bush neglected to mention in this year's speech.

5. Any mention of the following items in last year's State of the Union speech: 25,000 liters of anthrax; 38,000 liters of botulinum toxin; 500 tons of sarin, mustard and VX nerve gas; or those 16 words about uranium from Niger.

Items missing from most recent State Of The Union Address


Don't forget the aluminum tubes... everyone except the IAEA and nuclear scientists know they can be used to enrich uranium!
 

BaliBabyDoc

Lifer
Jan 20, 2001
10,737
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you can thank the campaign for revealing all that we know about the true state of saddam's capabilities, which included
clandestine labs and an ultimate desire to resume wmd production once the sanctions were lifted.
So which nations aside from Switzerland, Afghanistan, and Micronesia are NOT revealing the true state of their cabilities including clandestine research projects? Do ya think Israel has nukes? Do ya think China, Syria, Pakistan, Uzbekistan, and Russia have much naughtiness that they've developed (and maintain) on the DL?

Don't get me wrong . . . the world is a better place (albeit not necessarily safer) without Saddam . . . then again the world will be a MUCH better place (and safer) without Bush as President.
 
Jan 12, 2003
3,498
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Originally posted by: Vadatajs
Originally posted by: xxxxxJohnGaltxxxxx
I thought it was just to prove the effectiveness (or the lack thereof) of the baggy-pants college kids who were marching to the "No War for Oil" tune...

?????

That doesn't even begin to make sense.

...then pull your pants up.
 

DealMonkey

Lifer
Nov 25, 2001
13,136
1
0
Originally posted by: Vadatajs
Originally posted by: xxxxxJohnGaltxxxxx
I thought it was just to prove the effectiveness (or the lack thereof) of the baggy-pants college kids who were marching to the "No War for Oil" tune...

?????

That doesn't even begin to make sense.

It's a cheap attempt by Galt to write-off the anti-war movement as hip hop gangsta-types who wear their hair in dreads (even though they're white) and baggy pants that show off their boxers. When in reality, the anti-war movement crossed all demographics and consisted of all sorts of folks.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,907
6,789
126
500 American soldiers dead for a lie and thousands of Iraqis and their children. Neocon = mass murderer.
 

Dari

Lifer
Oct 25, 2002
17,133
38
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Originally posted by: Moonbeam
500 American soldiers dead for a lie and thousands of Iraqis and their children. Neocon = mass murderer.

Died for a lie? I think you better stick to your usual sarcasm. You're move to being a serious party is full of lies.

Try reading the Kay Report to get yourself into the loop.
 

syzygy

Diamond Member
Feb 5, 2001
3,038
0
76
Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc
you can thank the campaign for revealing all that we know about the true state of saddam's capabilities, which included
clandestine labs and an ultimate desire to resume wmd production once the sanctions were lifted.
So which nations aside from Switzerland, Afghanistan, and Micronesia are NOT revealing the true state of their cabilities including clandestine research projects? Do ya think Israel has nukes? Do ya think China, Syria, Pakistan, Uzbekistan, and Russia have much naughtiness that they've developed (and maintain) on the DL?

Don't get me wrong . . . the world is a better place (albeit not necessarily safer) without Saddam . . . then again the world will be a MUCH better place (and safer) without Bush as President.

the subject of resolution 1441 was iraq, nobody else. they lied about their wmd programs, played the inspectors for the upteenth
time, and hoped this whole unfortunate interest in their illegal programs would just go away, which it would have if the u.n. council
majority had followed the example of hans blix, a truly magnificent fool if there ever was one.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,268
126
Originally posted by: Dari
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
500 American soldiers dead for a lie and thousands of Iraqis and their children. Neocon = mass murderer.

Died for a lie? I think you better stick to your usual sarcasm. You're move to being a serious party is full of lies.

Try reading the Kay Report to get yourself into the loop.

Oh, Kay. That guy that said there were no WMDs in Iraq. Yeah, that's him.
 

BaliBabyDoc

Lifer
Jan 20, 2001
10,737
0
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When did the Kay Report become some Bible-like tome where everything is up for interpretation? Let's keep it simple.

The mushroom cloud metaphor for a equally misused metaphor smoking gun being bandied about by Cheney, Rumsfeld, Fleischer, Congressional Republicans, Wolfowitz (notice he's on the DL these days?), Perle, Rice, et al . . . where's the intelligence that justified such hyperbole? An even better question is why is all available evidence revealed post-invasion the opposite of what the administration claimed?

During his speech at the UN in Sep 2002 did Bush say we were invading Iraq b/c of dozens of weapons of mass destruction-related program activities or was it WMD?

During Powell's presentation at the UN did he say Saddam was making a cuisinart with those anodized aluminum tubes or centrifuges? Curiously, then and now the majority of authorities said the anodized tubes were most likely for missiles NOT centrifuges.

The simple fact is that without the urgency of WMD there would be no Bush Blair War 2003. Yes Saddam would still control much of his country but in that alternate future:
1) THOUSANDS of Iraqi civilians would still be alive.
2) 500 US soldiers and THOUSANDS of others would be alive and whole.
3) The US Treasury would be $150B heavier . . . well in this administration I guess I mean $150B less in debt.
4) The global war on terrorism would be united effort against pestilence.
5) Saddam's intact government would have been a much easier task for determining the true extent of his "limited" WMD capacity.
6) The entire region and all Iraqis would learn Saddam had no WMD and no substantive programs. Accordingly head bully status would revert to Israel.
7) The US could advocate revisions in the UN charter to reflect the challenge of state-sponsored terrorism. Essentially shining the disinfective power of sunlight on regimes in Syria and Iran.
8) The military/intelligence agencies could focus on tracking/dismantling Al Qaeda.
9) Domestic security could actually revolve around . . . domestic security.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,907
6,789
126
Originally posted by: Dari
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
500 American soldiers dead for a lie and thousands of Iraqis and their children. Neocon = mass murderer.

Died for a lie? I think you better stick to your usual sarcasm. You're move to being a serious party is full of lies.

Try reading the Kay Report to get yourself into the loop.

It was an obvious lie five minutes into the war. You just keep reading words to blind you. I live in your vaunted real world where people who have Weapons of Mass Destruction who are attacked and are having their country illegally occupied use them to defend themselves. Of course Saddam was sort of a nice guy. Maybe he didn't have the stomach to wipe out our ass the minute we attacked and prefered getting drug out of his hole.

There are no fools like the fools that claim they can think and can't add two and two.
 

wkabel23

Platinum Member
Dec 7, 2003
2,505
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Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc
When did the Kay Report become some Bible-like tome where everything is up for interpretation? Let's keep it simple.

The mushroom cloud metaphor for a equally misused metaphor smoking gun being bandied about by Cheney, Rumsfeld, Fleischer, Congressional Republicans, Wolfowitz (notice he's on the DL these days?), Perle, Rice, et al . . . where's the intelligence that justified such hyperbole? An even better question is why is all available evidence revealed post-invasion the opposite of what the administration claimed?

During his speech at the UN in Sep 2002 did Bush say we were invading Iraq b/c of dozens of weapons of mass destruction-related program activities or was it WMD?

During Powell's presentation at the UN did he say Saddam was making a cuisinart with those anodized aluminum tubes or centrifuges? Curiously, then and now the majority of authorities said the anodized tubes were most likely for missiles NOT centrifuges.

The simple fact is that without the urgency of WMD there would be no Bush Blair War 2003. Yes Saddam would still control much of his country but in that alternate future:
1) THOUSANDS of Iraqi civilians would still be alive.
2) 500 US soldiers and THOUSANDS of others would be alive and whole.
3) The US Treasury would be $150B heavier . . . well in this administration I guess I mean $150B less in debt.
4) The global war on terrorism would be united effort against pestilence.
5) Saddam's intact government would have been a much easier task for determining the true extent of his "limited" WMD capacity.
6) The entire region and all Iraqis would learn Saddam had no WMD and no substantive programs. Accordingly head bully status would revert to Israel.
7) The US could advocate revisions in the UN charter to reflect the challenge of state-sponsored terrorism. Essentially shining the disinfective power of sunlight on regimes in Syria and Iran.
8) The military/intelligence agencies could focus on tracking/dismantling Al Qaeda.
9) Domestic security could actually revolve around . . . domestic security.

Well put.

To me, one of the disturbing issues about the Iraq War is that it seems to have put the war on Al-Qaeda in the back seat. I just don't understand why the Bush administration would focus more on Iraq than the war on Al-Qaeda.
 

syzygy

Diamond Member
Feb 5, 2001
3,038
0
76
Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc
When did the Kay Report become some Bible-like tome where everything is up for interpretation? Let's keep it simple.

The mushroom cloud metaphor for a equally misused metaphor smoking gun being bandied about by Cheney, Rumsfeld, Fleischer, Congressional Republicans, Wolfowitz (notice he's on the DL these days?), Perle, Rice, et al . . . where's the intelligence that justified such hyperbole? An even better question is why is all available evidence revealed post-invasion the opposite of what the administration claimed?

During his speech at the UN in Sep 2002 did Bush say we were invading Iraq b/c of dozens of weapons of mass destruction-related program activities or was it WMD?

During Powell's presentation at the UN did he say Saddam was making a cuisinart with those anodized aluminum tubes or centrifuges? Curiously, then and now the majority of authorities said the anodized tubes were most likely for missiles NOT centrifuges.

The simple fact is that without the urgency of WMD there would be no Bush Blair War 2003. Yes Saddam would still control much of his country but in that alternate future:
1) THOUSANDS of Iraqi civilians would still be alive.
2) 500 US soldiers and THOUSANDS of others would be alive and whole.
3) The US Treasury would be $150B heavier . . . well in this administration I guess I mean $150B less in debt.
4) The global war on terrorism would be united effort against pestilence.
5) Saddam's intact government would have been a much easier task for determining the true extent of his "limited" WMD capacity.
6) The entire region and all Iraqis would learn Saddam had no WMD and no substantive programs. Accordingly head bully status would revert to Israel.
7) The US could advocate revisions in the UN charter to reflect the challenge of state-sponsored terrorism. Essentially shining the disinfective power of sunlight on regimes in Syria and Iran.
8) The military/intelligence agencies could focus on tracking/dismantling Al Qaeda.
9) Domestic security could actually revolve around . . . domestic security.

jeez, where to begin . . .

german intel (bnd) thought saddam could reconstitute and deploy nuclear weapons in three years with a potential to reach europe
within 5 years cnn link

clinton cronies were testifying as late as 2002 that iraq belonged in a unique category that deserved our undivided attention because
of their significent wmd threat. csis link.

by he way, as a wonderful aside, the crony (einhorn) asks rhetorically 'can a state [iraq] defy the u.n. with impunity ?' oh, the laughs. he he.

as for the rest, as it has been stated before, hindsight does breed geniuses all too easily. you can thank the war for the clarification on
iraq's true capabilities, which, regardless how measured, dr. kay proved to be in violation of resolution 1441 at least 3 times over. not
that it matters. ask mr. einhorn . . .

as for kisses of death, moonie liked your post.

 

LunarRay

Diamond Member
Mar 2, 2003
9,993
1
76
Oh! Boy! Now we didn't invade under Article 51 of the UN Charter. We invaded a sovereign nation - see UN Resolution 1441 - to oust a dictator.
Under what authority did this invasion occur? Are we back to asserting that Res 1441 gave that authority? It clearly did not. Our draft Res that was rejected indicates this as well as the non willing members of the UN.
I guess we have to change the rationale to what is plausable but, it seems more egg on the face going this way.. at least we can argue the defensive issue...
 

Gaard

Diamond Member
Feb 17, 2002
8,911
1
0
Even though I follow them all, I usually just stand on the sidelines during your Article 51 discussions LunarRay, but I just want to interject a moment here to say that I know what you're talking about. I've seen those who you discuss the issue with go from 1441, to 51, and back to 1441 again. (Except when it comes to Dari...he bypasses both ;) )
 

syzygy

Diamond Member
Feb 5, 2001
3,038
0
76
Originally posted by: LunarRay
Oh! Boy! Now we didn't invade under Article 51 of the UN Charter. We invaded a sovereign nation - see UN Resolution 1441 - to oust a dictator.
Under what authority did this invasion occur? Are we back to asserting that Res 1441 gave that authority? It clearly did not. Our draft Res that was rejected indicates this as well as the non willing members of the UN.
I guess we have to change the rationale to what is plausable but, it seems more egg on the face going this way.. at least we can argue the defensive issue...

i don't care much for legalisms when there is a long (recent) history rich in detail. a constant diet of failure should whittle down the
available options to one, the only one saddam understood and the only one that could oust him, remove what threat he posed,
and rid the region - and world - of his menace.

if the u.n. were the reformed organization they themselves beleive they can be then saddam would never have ridden them into
irrelavance as easily as he did. if the u.n. had the mechanisms, the cahones, the international support to function against these
third world megalomaniacs then the only available option would never have been implemented. there was nothing but failure
and on the other side of that were decades and decades of continued ba'ath rule, whcih must have been saddam's wish all
along. thankfully somebody with principle acted - and angered chirac in the process. sweet.