US supporting terrorists inside Iran ***Update: Hersh does full expose***

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: yllus

Originally posted by: International Machine Consortium
Gates. He's "no expert" on anything. What an idiot.

"I'm no expert on (fill in the blank)...BUT...."

I love these random proclamations of people being idiots by people on the Internet.

Robert Michael Gates, Ph.D. (born September 25, 1943) is currently serving as the 22nd United States Secretary of Defense. He took office on December 18, 2006.[1] Prior to this, Gates served for 26 years in the Central Intelligence Agency and the National Security Council, and under President George H. W. Bush as Director of Central Intelligence.

If Secretary Gates isn't an expert on the topic at hand, nobody is. Get a grip.

Git a grip. These fools are still piping the injurious slogan: "the war on terror" which doesn't even define the enemy but camouflages our actual enemy. Terrorism is a tactic, not a foe. To declare "war on terror" is akin to saying that World War II should have been fought to rid the world of the blitzkrieg and kamikaze pilot while the political and religious regimes that manufactured them went unchecked. Until we address Islams tenants, motives and teachings and even outlaw it's practice, like we did German Naziism and Japanese Kodo in WWII, the basis for jihad and instruments of jihad will continue indefinity. In fact our foolish elitist leaders do just the opposite. The hide and are ignorant of the truth calling Islam "the religion of peace" despite it's contiguous historical slaughters and continued slaughtering of infidels today around the globe, from Thailand to USA. (Bush does it, Blair does it, even semi-educated fleas like Gates do it).

Fortunately there is nothing they can do to stop more and more Infidels from reading their newspapers or turning on the evening news, from realizing how much of it is about the manifestation of the worldwide and permanent Jihad. The Qur'an is just a click away too (www.quranbrowser.com). And so are the Hadith. And so is the Sira. There is nothing these elitists can do about all that, except what they have been doing all along making excuses and apologies like: "three Abrahamic faiths," "one of world's great religions," "hijacked" or "perverted" by "extremists", etc. Eventually we will elect a Churchill to eradicate this barbaric plague from the west if they don't evolve first like those at freemuslims.org.

 

[BMW540I6speed]

yullis said:

Vice President Cheney is by all accounts quite brilliant, even if he is overly hawkish

This may have been true at one time...

But, it is obvious that Cheney has become an increasingly embittered and reckless government official.

It is self-evident, because these days - ever since Americans had the audacity to reject his party and turn it out of office - Dick Cheney does not seem to have a high enough regard for public opinion to even conceal his scorn for it, let alone expend the energy offering even minimally coherent defenses of the Bush administration's behavior.

Cheney's behavior has become palpably more secretive, combative, and scornful. The embittered interview he gave to Wolf Blitzer was the most vivid, but far from the only, instance. He seems to harbor such scorn for the democratic process that he literally no longer cares whether the answers he gives to reporters' questions even make any sense.

The interview Cheney gave to pool reporters on his plane the other day as it returned home from Afghanistan is striking in several respects. Cheney demanded that journalists not identify him by name when reporting on the interview (but instead refer to him only as a "senior administration official"), even though Cheney himself makes unmistakably clear in the transcript that it is him.

As Cheney continues to criticize opponents of the Iraq war and opponents of the "surge" by claiming those opponents would only "validate the al Qaeda strategy", I continue to wonder how he can be so oblivious to Osama Bin Laden's goal of drawing the U.S. into war by continuously escalating attacks on U.S. interests.

Bin Laden's objective was to draw us into the same Afghan trap as the Soviet Union fell into during the 70's and 80's, but he made the mistake of underestimating the U.S. military, and if we would have done Afghanistan and Tora Bora right, it would have been the end of him.

But instead, Cheney/Bush lost focus, committed the opposite sin of hubristically overestimating the power of military, and expanded the "war on terror" to include Iraq and allowed ourselves to be manipulated into the exact situation bin Laden wanted in the first place - a long, hard land war that would drain the money, lives, good will & resourses of this great country.

If indeed someone is "validating al Qaeda strategy" it is Cheney and Bush.

It is interesting how Cheney tries to use the interests of the other countries to justify our staying in Iraq. Their interests before ours? I think this also shows a symptom of his world view mindset as well as a disconnect to the American public or any thinking about what might be best for America first.

The emperor has no clothes or name. This Caesar mentality has really manifested since the mid term elections. It is a manifestation of "fear" on his part to be not named. There are a whole lot of people around the world that do not like this guy and he knows it. There are many in governments around the world that do not like this guy as many see him as the neo-caesar in charge of the asylum.

It is disturbing to know that a man like this is running around free to do whatever he sees fit to do. It would be difficult for him not to hold public in contempt, when he can barely hide his contempt for the American people.

I suspect that Cheney has always had contempt for those who diagree with him, but figured that he was better at political bureaucratic infighting and expected to outlast his opponents as long as he kept a decent public face.

Final thought:

This is the Domino Theory all over again. Throughout the Cold War, proponents of interventionism argued that our failure in one country would lead to the fall of democracy to Communism. These arguments led us into Korea and Vietnam. We didn't win in Korea and we outright lost in Vietnam. Democracy did not fall. Communism did not prevail. We haven't lost, but Iraq is falling apart. We will not lose the conflict with radical Islam. Only those lacking confidence in our ideology think war is "necessary". That is why an assault on the Constitution is a key front in Bushco.'s paranoid perpetual war.

 

[Tab]

BMW540I6speed, where do you get your news from on a daliy basis? Also, awesome post.

 

[yllus]

Originally posted by: Zebo
Git a grip. These fools are still piping the injurious slogan: "the war on terror" which doesn't even define the enemy but camouflages our actual enemy. Terrorism is a tactic, not a foe. To declare "war on terror" is akin to saying that World War II should have been fought to rid the world of the blitzkrieg and kamikaze pilot while the political and religious regimes that manufactured them went unchecked. Until we address Islams tenants, motives and teachings and even outlaw it's practice, like we did German Naziism and Japanese Kodo in WWII, the basis for jihad and instruments of jihad will continue indefinity. In fact our foolish elitist leaders do just the opposite. The hide and are ignorant of the truth calling Islam "the religion of peace" despite it's contiguous historical slaughters and continued slaughtering of infidels today around the globe, from Thailand to USA. (Bush does it, Blair does it, even semi-educated fleas like Gates do it).

Fortunately there is nothing they can do to stop more and more Infidels from reading their newspapers or turning on the evening news, from realizing how much of it is about the manifestation of the worldwide and permanent Jihad. The Qur'an is just a click away too (www.quranbrowser.com). And so are the Hadith. And so is the Sira. There is nothing these elitists can do about all that, except what they have been doing all along making excuses and apologies like: "three Abrahamic faiths," "one of world's great religions," "hijacked" or "perverted" by "extremists", etc. Eventually we will elect a Churchill to eradicate this barbaric plague from the west if they don't evolve first like those at freemuslims.org.

Your post had absolutely nothing to do with mine. It also had absolutely nothing to do with anything that makes sense even remotely.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: yllus

Originally posted by: Zebo
Git a grip. These fools are still piping the injurious slogan: "the war on terror" which doesn't even define the enemy but camouflages our actual enemy. Terrorism is a tactic, not a foe. To declare "war on terror" is akin to saying that World War II should have been fought to rid the world of the blitzkrieg and kamikaze pilot while the political and religious regimes that manufactured them went unchecked. Until we address Islams tenants, motives and teachings and even outlaw it's practice, like we did German Naziism and Japanese Kodo in WWII, the basis for jihad and instruments of jihad will continue indefinity. In fact our foolish elitist leaders do just the opposite. The hide and are ignorant of the truth calling Islam "the religion of peace" despite it's contiguous historical slaughters and continued slaughtering of infidels today around the globe, from Thailand to USA. (Bush does it, Blair does it, even semi-educated fleas like Gates do it).

Fortunately there is nothing they can do to stop more and more Infidels from reading their newspapers or turning on the evening news, from realizing how much of it is about the manifestation of the worldwide and permanent Jihad. The Qur'an is just a click away too (www.quranbrowser.com). And so are the Hadith. And so is the Sira. There is nothing these elitists can do about all that, except what they have been doing all along making excuses and apologies like: "three Abrahamic faiths," "one of world's great religions," "hijacked" or "perverted" by "extremists", etc. Eventually we will elect a Churchill to eradicate this barbaric plague from the west if they don't evolve first like those at freemuslims.org.

Your post had absolutely nothing to do with mine. It also had absolutely nothing to do with anything that makes sense even remotely.

You said "If Secretary Gates isn't an expert on the topic at hand, nobody is." I assume you mean the war which none of these elites seem to have a grasp of and I illustrated why. Bush didn't even know there are different secs in Islam and the inevitable consequence of that division before starting his blundering.

 

[yllus]

Ah, and you responded with a polemic about Islam being a barbaric plague that needs to be eradicated. Gotcha.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: yllus
Ah, and you responded with a polemic about Islam being a barbaric plague that needs to be eradicated. Gotcha.

Or evolve one of two choices if you want to win this war. I suppose you could devolve instead and accept the Sharia, subjugation of women, free thinkers and the like - accept total regulation of life and explanation of the universe but not me. I can deal with the treating women like vomit part, it's that 5x a day loud speaker calling for prayer that gets on my nerves. Seriously, any doctrine of warfare against unbelievers like Islam has must be denounced and rejected if people are going to live in peace. I make no apologies for pointing that out. Any Muslim who sincerely rejects the doctrines of violent jihad and Islamic supremacism should have no problem with it either.

 

[Zebo]

Here is a guy that's an expert on the Iraqi insurgency that thinks Hersh's investigations hold little merit due to hatred of USA Sunni's have: From his piece "insurgency for beginners"

What do you think of Seymour Hersh's recent report in the New Yorker that the U.S. is taking part in clandestine operations aimed at Iran and Syria and that a "by-product of these activities has been the bolstering of Sunni extremist groups"?

The idea that the U.S. is bolstering Sunni extremist groups in Iraq deliberately is pretty ridiculous and sounds awfully conspiratorial to me. Most of the Sunni groups consider themselves to be antithetical to the very idea of the United States. Even if we were to offer to help them for some strange reason, they would never knowingly work with us. But I can't say the same for Saudi Arabia and other supposed U.S. allies in the Gulf region, who don't have any soldiers in Iraq at risk from Sunni insurgents, and who would do just about anything to curb the expansion of Iran.

Makes sense until you consider they are probably funding though Saudi intermediaries.


I thought this was interesting RE: our "great allies" the Saudis:

Have you seen any evidence that the Iran government has aided the militias?

Yes. Some Sunni insurgent groups have uncovered what they claim are documents with the government of Iran insignia, and ID cards of people they say are Iranians, who they say have been aiding the Shiites. Some of the items are more credible than others, of course, and none of it is utterly conclusive. But has any of this activity been the major cause of U.S. casualties in Iraq? No. Not even close. The whole thing is incredibly overblown. If a foreign country invaded Mexico, American weapons would start turning up in Mexico. There may even be senior American officials who are providing weapons to prevent that country from invading us. The Iranians may be doing the same thing. At a maximum, what the Iranian government is doing is arming people they see as their allies to prevent Sunni insurgents from launching attacks on them. Or from a radical Sunni state emerging inside Iraq. They see it as an act of self-defense.

But if you want to know who is responsible for the fact that al-Qaida is succeeding in Iraq, it's Saudi Arabia. The most common nationality of foreign insurgents in Iraq has been Saudis. Where do you think all the money comes from to pay for these operations? It's from Saudi donors. I'm not blaming this necessarily on the Saudi government. But they have made some very provocative statements about the idea that if the U.S. withdraws from Iraq, they're going to actively aid Sunnis in their war against Shiites. If we're going to put pressure on Iraq's neighbors, let's put pressure on all of Iraq neighbors to stop contributing to the violence.

informative.. read it all
http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2007/03/02/insurgency/print.html