US sues the WTC and the EU over genetically modified food ban

[Tal]

Originally posted by: lozina

Originally posted by: Alistar7
where is any scientific evidence that GM foods are harmfull to people or the environment?

http://www.mercola.com/2002/jan/23/gm_food.htm

hahahaha... proof? Hi. I'm herzogom Hermogovich. This is my science fair project. Mice like chocolate pop-tarts better than cherry ones. So, Cherry is bad for you.

lol.

 

[Tal]

Originally posted by: lozina

Originally posted by: Alistar7
and if you actually read it instead of selecting picking out another persons opinion you would have seen this gem:

"In fact, no peer-reviewed publications of clinical studies on the human health effects of GM food exist"

ok, so now my question is answered, thank you, there is no evidence that shows any damaging effects.

thats funny you call my insistence on discussing things on a factual basis as being "picky"....

That's a neat skill, taking things out of context. You'll have to teach me that someday. However for now let's go back to the context of that statement. If you read the first part: "How can the public make informed decisions about genetically modified (GM) foods when there is so little information about its safety? The lack of data is due to a number of reasons, including: " Then in one of it's reasons it brings up the point which you so carefully cut out. The point of that is, in case you didn't understand, is how can we stamp the GM foods as good for people when we
do not know much about it. That's a very important point. I'm sure if we knew enough about Asbestos before we starting commercializing it we wouldn't have had so many problems with asbestos litigation recently.

And please continue reading the article, there's ALOT of content to why you actually shouldn't brand GM foods as safe yet. Don't worry, reading is fun!

<FearMonkey Voice> Grphm.... Innovation bad.... Rock good. Me likum old food. No me likey the new poopoo food.</FearMonkey Voice>

hehe. I just really think that until you show me how bad it is, you gotta just shut it. I've never seen such a bunch of fearmongers. If Darwin was selling GM food, you turds would be all over it like flies on sh1t. -Tal

 

[Moonbeam]

You poor sad bastards are even entertained by your fate.

 

[LunarRay]

Well I can tell you from experience that genetic alteration is not good...

To Wit: I used to love Suzi Q's and Hostess Cream filled cupcakes.... now I can barely tolerate them.

The cows that produce the cream used now are so genetically taste negated and the ones that produce the chocolate ain't fit for shoe leather..

So I say.... back to the normal cow and the heck with all this gee netic stuff...

 

[Wag]

It could be maybe, you, say, grew up? I don't like 3/4s of the garbage I ate as a kid.

As for socialism, I don't see how you equate that to the world not being able to support the growing population. I never said the US should supply the world's food for free (although we do much of that already)- GM would allow more food to grow on dwindling farmland, harsher environments, etc. Even if everyone on the planet had access to all the food available- it still wouldn't be enough.

I once again highly recommend you catch the Penn & Teller:BS! on food next time it comes on. It's very enlightening.

 

[Alistar7]

just think if the people of Haiti had a starin of rice they could grow to rebuild their domestic market.....


As soon as the EU needs food from the US, we will ban the export of GM foods to the EU.....

this whole mice experiment is a joke, once again, for anyone with a dog at home please try this.

take 2 identical bowls, fill one up with water, leave it on your counter, then next day fill the other bowl up from the same tap, place both of the ground, tell us which one your dog chose.

He/she will choose the fresh one. Much like the mice they can tell the difference, far more acute senses. Does that mean the day old water is somehow different? Of course not, it's exactly the same. Is it better or worse for them? Of course not, it's exaclty the same water, how could it affect them any differently? But they still will choose the fresh stuff 99% of the time. Is the day old water bad for the environment?

no reliable peer reviewed studies available that prove conclusively any negative effects on humans or the environment, but 10 years use in the US and no problems.

 

[Fencer128]

lol if it were true america would be doomed, u have no idea how much your food is already ge.

as for people thinkign everything should be studied until theres 0% chance of failure... get a grip. nothing is 100% in technology. airbags came out before they were perfect, they saved thousands of lives, yet they killed a few. they were improved based on mistakes, as with all technology. doesn't mean you don't use it.

alternative is to use normal crops with more pesticide, which are KNOWN to be bad, not just irrationally feared. pesticides are bad for both enviroment and people. somehow i don't see the EU banning all pesticides until research has proven 110% that they cause zero harm to both people and enviroment. they are irrational.

Interesting point. I was just talking to a friend of mine (who has some expert knowledge in this field). He was telling me that the "low pesticide" selling point of GM crops was most often a misnomer. For instance, you need less kinds of pesticides in order to successfully grow the crops, but in a lot of cases you need a LOT of one particular type of pesticide. In fact, in some cases, in terms of volume, you need more of one particular type of pesticide than you do of the combined pesticides that you'd use on "normal" crops. And before it's suggested, it's not that the one pesticide used with GM is any "better" than any of the others traditionally used.

We should be careful when citing the "pesticide benefit" of GM crops.

Cheers,

Andy

 

[Fencer128]

Originally posted by: Alistar7
just think if the people of Haiti had a starin of rice they could grow to rebuild their domestic market.....

Wonder where that came from?

Andy

 

[Moonbeam]

They don't need as much pesticide because they have been genetically programed to make pesticide. You get to eat it since you can't even wash it off. What bugs can't eat, I don't want to eat either.

 

[LunarRay]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
They don't need as much pesticide because they have been genetically programed to make pesticide. You get to eat it since you can't even wash it off. What bugs can't eat, I don't want to eat either.

What?? I'm told that Dow stuff... shhhhhh... Secret Agent Orange won't hurt a fly... so lets use that...

We have it buried along side all our other chemicals... the ones that leech into the water table.. No one has been harmed from that... Least ways.. none so testified...

 

[Alistar7]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
They don't need as much pesticide because they have been genetically programed to make pesticide. You get to eat it since you can't even wash it off. What bugs can't eat, I don't want to eat either.

you have been Moon, for 10+ years.....

 

[0roo0roo]

salt can kill a snail, but i salt my food i can kill my dog with chocolate quite easily, one oz per lb and he's gone. eat my m&m's poochie and u are no more!

whats poison to one animal is fine for another.

some people have a demented overly idealistic view of nature. things like sars are from mother nature. she's not out there for you.

 

[B00ne]

Alistar: Since you pretend to be so knowledgeable about GM food, can you provide a specific field example: Where u have a GM crop (choose whatever u want, but preferably something easy to compare such as wheat) on one field and the corresponding traditional crop on another. Fields have to be comparable (same soil, same climate - best would be fields next to each other ( if that is possible without interbreeding).

Now I want to know : How many tons of produce per hectar do u get on each field?

BTW I would prefer real life numbers, like from a farmer that actuaLLY does both or so - not numbers from Monsarto or so.


Because so far I have not heard that GM crops produce (significantly) more tonnage of food. I would like to leran more.

 

[Alistar7]

I guess you do not want to learn that bad then, do your own work, generally though it is around a 30-40% increase in yield, with less pesticides, etc.. They are more drought resistant as well, which increases yield.

The point is the ban is not based on any scientific evidence. We have already proven here there is no peer reviewed accepted evidence which shows whether GM foods are bad for people or the enviornment. I am not saying there is not the possiblity they are not, but after ten years of use in the US, not one reputable study can prove a direct link, so what's the problem?

 

[0roo0roo]

i think in china they cut pesticide use by almost 6times or something because of bt.

 

[Moonbeam]

Like antibiotics, genetically engineered insect resistant plants will lead to the evolution of super bugs that can't be killed by anything. When our entire food supply is reduced to a few genetically engineered lines that are under attack by unstoppable bugs we will regret, too late, going down that road. The answer to a long human future lies in genetically diversified organically sustainable micro agriculture. Food is not just sustenance, it's a way to a meaningful life. Compare the French to the American table. Americans are merely drones of the economy, devoid of a sense of the meaning of life.

 

[BaliBabyDoc]

Haiti has problems growing crops b/c they've drained many wetlands (granted colonial powers did much of it), cut down most of the forest, and have poor central planning for an overpopulated island. GM rice will not help them, significantly. They need money and stable (responsible) government, then it is quite possible that GM food might help a lot.

I won't say Bush is lying about GM bans and their effect on global poverty . . . I think its just like WMD . . . he cannot assess reality b/c he lacks the capacity to research all the pertinent factors and then logically evaluate cause versus correlation. There's nothing wrong with being simpleminded . . . but simpleminded people should avoid complex problems.

 

[Ryan]

I refuse to use anything made by GM...Oh wait, this isn't a car thread, is it?

 

[Alistar7]

Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc
Haiti has problems growing crops b/c they've drained many wetlands (granted colonial powers did much of it), cut down most of the forest, and have poor central planning for an overpopulated island. GM rice will not help them, significantly. They need money and stable (responsible) government, then it is quite possible that GM food might help a lot.

I won't say Bush is lying about GM bans and their effect on global poverty . . . I think its just like WMD . . . he cannot assess reality b/c he lacks the capacity to research all the pertinent factors and then logically evaluate cause versus correlation. There's nothing wrong with being simpleminded . . . but simpleminded people should avoid complex problems.

you sure you want to get into Haiti and the rice market???????

 

[LunarRay]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Like antibiotics, genetically engineered insect resistant plants will lead to the evolution of super bugs that can't be killed by anything. When our entire food supply is reduced to a few genetically engineered lines that are under attack by unstoppable bugs we will regret, too late, going down that road. The answer to a long human future lies in genetically diversified organically sustainable micro agriculture. Food is not just sustenance, it's a way to a meaningful life. Compare the French to the American table. Americans are merely drones of the economy, devoid of a sense of the meaning of life.

Well... I have these strawberry plants in two gallon containers. Every morning I go out a squish the green catapillars that seem to enjoy the leaves. I also have some pet lady bugs that love to gobble up the white flies and other bugs and larve that happen by. Why not breed a super lady bug strain and let them multiply and use them to rid the insect menace. It works at my house.. and my lady bugs are not super ones.

 

[Moonbeam]

you sure you want to get into Haiti and the rice market???????
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Are you posing for photographs?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????



HJ, maybe one day we will build tiny Gorts to crawl among them, maybe use a tiny poison harpoon or simply rip them apart.

 

[LunarRay]

Maybe someday there will be nothing but gorts and bugs...

Earth will tire of us... we have provided the plastic the earth wanted so now we may join the rest so well preserved in jars and wax.... on display.