US strike kills Iranian Quds Force commander

[itsmydamnation]

Accident? Odds are maybe 10,000:1 against that. No, I don't want to see more casualties.

how so, its very likely an accident odds are maybe 10,000:1 for it.

 

[Muse]

How Pompeo convinced Trump to kill Soleimani and fulfilled a decade-long goal

Trump claims he doesn't want the US to be bogged down in more ME conflicts, but he keeps surrounding himself with the most insane warmongers.

Look up hypocrite in the dictionary, the Orange one is the graphic.

 

[Muse]

how so, its very likely an accident odds are maybe 10,000:1 for it.

You think it was a coincidence that the plane went down ~4 hours after the missiles flew to Iraq? You better lay off that shit, whatever it is your on.

Duh, I got an A in statistics. You're stoned.

 

[Jhhnn]

Accident? Odds are maybe 10,000:1 against that. No, I don't want to see more casualties.

Gawd. The notion that the Iranian govt would intentionally shoot down the airliner is absurd. If their forces did so it was a huge fuckup.

 

[Victorian Gray]

You think it was a coincidence that the plane went down ~4 hours after the missiles flew to Iraq? You better lay off that shit, whatever it is your on.

Duh, I got an A in statistics. You're stoned.

What possible reason would Iran have for deliberately taking out that plane.

 

[itsmydamnation]

You think it was a coincidence that the plane went down ~4 hours after the missiles flew to Iraq? You better lay off that shit, whatever it is your on.

Duh, I got an A in statistics. You're stoned.

Man your a moron.

So lets just think about things for like 3 seconds before going off the deep end.

1. Iran just launched an attack on the US
2. Iran is expecting the possibility of a US response
3. Russian SAM dont do NATO IFF they do there own thing

Much like how the US warship shot down an airline in the late 80's , its is likely an overzealous battery commander expecting his site to be a likely target as response (it was a government research facility) having a target that wasn't identified as friendly appear and shooting it down.

What remains to be seen is how much incompetence there was on the part of Iran. Did they try hailing , was this plane on its registered flight path/ departing on time , where there clear signs from a RF/radar perceptive that this was a commercial airliner etc

when you shot down a thing because you think its another thing, thats an accident.

maybe you should lay off the crack yourself.

 

[Muse]

Man your a moron.

Yeah, well, you're full of shit. The crash happened Wednesday. This from the NYTimes today:

"The crash came at a tense time in Iran, as conflict with the United States had the country on edge. On Tuesday, the Federal Aviation Administration barred American airliners from flying over Iran, citing a risk that commercial planes would be mistaken for military aircraft. Several non-American carriers rerouted flights on Wednesday to avoid Iraq and Iran, according to Flightradar24, a site that tracks airplane transponders."

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/07/...&module=trending&pgtype=Article&region=Footer

 

[Muse]

Man your a moron.

So lets just think about things for like 3 seconds before going off the deep end.

1. Iran just launched an attack on the US
2. Iran is expecting the possibility of a US response
3. Russian SAM dont do NATO IFF they do there own thing

Much like how the US warship shot down an airline in the late 80's , its is likely an overzealous battery commander expecting his site to be a likely target as response (it was a government research facility) having a target that wasn't identified as friendly appear and shooting it down.

What remains to be seen is how much incompetence there was on the part of Iran. Did they try hailing , was this plane on its registered flight path/ departing on time , where there clear signs from a RF/radar perceptive that this was a commercial airliner etc

when you shot down a thing because you think its another thing, thats an accident.

maybe you should lay off the crack yourself.

I don't call Iran shooting down an aircraft an accident. To me, in this scenario an accident would have nothing to do with military action against the aircraft. That plane was shot down, that's no "accident."

 

[Muse]

What possible reason would Iran have for deliberately taking out that plane.

No good reason at all. But they are a nation of lunatics to a considerable degree. Those massive super dense crowds scream lunacy. Shooting down that plane is ghastly, obviously. But I tell you, if I were about to board that plane, 4 hours after Iran launched missiles at bases in Iran with thousands of US troops, I would have been nervous. I bet some people declined to board.

See post #1232 above. The day before the crash the FAA barred any US airliners from flying over Iran air space. That Ukrainian airplane was at risk, obviously.

 

[Muse]

Gawd. The notion that the Iranian govt would intentionally shoot down the airliner is absurd. If their forces did so it was a huge fuckup.

OK, who else did it?

 

[Muse]

What possible reason would Iran have for deliberately taking out that plane.

No conceivable reason. Apparently somebody did. I can't conceive who. Possibly the same people who shot down the Ukrainian airliner a few years ago? It's pretty bizarre.

Edit: On NBC network news tonight the US and Canada is saying that unequivocally the plane was shot down by Iranian missiles (I think 2), which were Russian made. Iran is denying it.

 

[pmv]

I don't call Iran shooting down an aircraft an accident. To me, in this scenario an accident would have nothing to do with military action against the aircraft. That plane was shot down, that's no "accident."

Sounds like a semantic argument over the meaning of 'accident'. I don't see why the Iranians would want to target a Ukrainian civilian aircraft (mostly full of Iranians, it seems). They likely targetted an aircraft, but the 'accident' was that the target was not what they thought it was.
(Though as it was a Russian missile, maybe it just didn't like anything Ukrainian?)

 

[Paratus]

There's no way to fire ballistic missiles at a target with humans while not taking the risk of killing them. The proposition is absurd.

It is if you warn people ahead of time, so they aren't in the structures you're hitting. Those things are pretty accurate.

Pretty accurate is not perfectly accurate. You cannot fire ballistic missiles at a base in another country and assume you have 0 risk of killing someone.

Warning them it was incoming reduces that risk but it’s still non-zero. Rockets fail. They comedown where they aren’t expected. Warheads explode early or fail to explode until someone disturbs them.


Again, low risk but not 0 risk.

Hell Artemis 1 (test flight of the new moon rocket) has a non-zero chance of killing someone on the ground. There’s multiple redundancies, design decisions, trajectory profiles and fail safe systems to prevent that but it’s still is and always will be non-zero.

I don't call Iran shooting down an aircraft an accident. To me, in this scenario an accident would have nothing to do with military action against the aircraft. That plane was shot down, that's no "accident."

They are responsible for shooting it down but in any western military there would be an accident investigation.

They shot down a civilian airliner, caused an international incident with multiple counties not involved in the current conflict, wasted ordinance, and showed themselves to be incompetent. Outside of a Tom Clancy novel this was accidental and not intentional.

Still doesn’t mean they weren’t responsible.

It also doesn’t relieve us (the US) from our own part in this. When you break a treaty and get into a semi-hot war people die. Sometimes accidentally.

Speaking of Tom Clancy....

 

[randay]

The amount of fuckery in this thread is mind boggling. You people are arguing the same set of facts and just calling them two different things. This is the perfect representation of America right now. Its not even only American politics, its America on everything.

 

[Jhhnn]

OK, who else did it?

I figure some low level grunt just blew it. If it was, indeed, brought down by a missile the Iranian govt is responsible, of course, because it was a preventable accident.

 

[ivwshane]

Accident? Odds are maybe 10,000:1 against that. No, I don't want to see more casualties.

So you think Iran shot down a plane which has a majority of Iranian citizens on it? How far will you go to maintain that conspiracy theory?

 

[NWRMidnight]

Iran doesn't respond well to bullying, murder & threats, huh?

*scratches head* not sure how you came up with that from what I said.

 

[Victorian Gray]

No good reason at all. But they are a nation of lunatics to a considerable degree. Those massive super dense crowds scream lunacy. Shooting down that plane is ghastly, obviously. But I tell you, if I were about to board that plane, 4 hours after Iran launched missiles at bases in Iran with thousands of US troops, I would have been nervous. I bet some people declined to board.

See post #1232 above. The day before the crash the FAA barred any US airliners from flying over Iran air space. That Ukrainian airplane was at risk, obviously.

That statement is why nothing you say about this matter has any meaning whatsoever. That's decades of American propaganda seeping out of your brain. Kinda mind boggling to be honest.

 

[NWRMidnight]

No good reason at all. But they are a nation of lunatics to a considerable degree. Those massive super dense crowds scream lunacy. Shooting down that plane is ghastly, obviously. But I tell you, if I were about to board that plane, 4 hours after Iran launched missiles at bases in Iran with thousands of US troops, I would have been nervous. I bet some people declined to board.

See post #1232 above. The day before the crash the FAA barred any US airliners from flying over Iran air space. That Ukrainian airplane was at risk, obviously.

Why would Ukrainian's be at risk? They didn't assassinate Iran's second in charge. Or are you telling us that the US knew about the attack before hand, and that is the reason they had the FAA Barr US airliners from flying over Iran air space? I am not saying that they where not at risk, specially after 4 hours after Iran attacked using ballistic Missiles. But the FAA's warning has nothing to do with it. It was issued to protect US Airlines from attack in retaliation, and was issued prior to the Missile attack.

 

[Muse]

I figure some low level grunt just blew it. If it was, indeed, brought down by a missile the Iranian govt is responsible, of course, because it was a preventable accident.

Low level grunt gets to decide when and what to blast out of the sky? That's beyond incompetence. Not a good idea for Iran to have nukes, I'm thinking.

 

[Muse]

So you think Iran shot down a plane which has a majority of Iranian citizens on it? How far will you go to maintain that conspiracy theory?

NBC network news tonight has the USA and Canada 100% sure that's exactly what happened. Conspiracy theory? Not.

Whoever shot down that plane probably had no idea that there were Iranians on it. BTW, 63 of them were Canadians, 10 Ukranians.

 

[Muse]

That statement is why nothing you say about this matter has any meaning whatsoever. That's decades of American propaganda seeping out of your brain. Kinda mind boggling to be honest.

If you are mind boggled, that's your problem. The incredible throngs of sardine-packed Iranians subsequent to the drone attack is ample evidence of the madness in the culture. Dozens die in the stampede. Then they shoot down an airliner taking off from Tehran. They claim dozens killed from their rocket attack, they deny they brought down the airliner. This is sanity? And you're mind boggled. I don't think you have a sense of what's going on.

 

[Muse]

Why would Ukrainian's be at risk? They didn't assassinate Iran's second in charge. Or are you telling us that the US knew about the attack before hand, and that is the reason they had the FAA Barr US airliners from flying over Iran air space? I am not saying that they where not at risk, specially after 4 hours after Iran attacked using ballistic Missiles. But the FAA's warning has nothing to do with it. It was issued to protect US Airlines from attack in retaliation, and was issued prior to the Missile attack.

On network news tonight (NBC), they said it wasn't just the USA that warned against flying over Iran, they said several countries had issued such warnings. And it may have been more than warnings, I'm thinking. Ukraine was evidently not one of them. I'm not saying they were specifically targeted, not in the least.

 

[Meghan54]

Low level grunt gets to decide when and what to blast out of the sky? That's beyond incompetence. Not a good idea for Iran to have nukes, I'm thinking.

So let me ask you something....who would decide to fire an AA missile? A commander who may have to be woken up/found and then get his/her authorization to fire at the incoming airplanes? And how long a time lag do you think that would introduce into their air defense system?

Methinks you do not understand what really happens in a live potential war zone.....those low level grunts had already gotten their authorization to fire at "unknown" potential hostiles....that's the way it works.

In your scenario, by the time those low level grunts got the auth. to fire their AA missiles at the incoming "enemy" aircraft, the aircraft would have been long gone, rendering their AA fire quite useless.

I'm thinking you haven't put much critical thinking into this at all outside what you've been fed from Fox.

 

[Muse]

I'm thinking you haven't put much critical thinking into this at all outside what you've been fed from Fox.

Well, for starters, I never check out Fox. A lot of people who post here obviously do, but I never do. I avoid them like I avoid bad smelling food.

Hey! I'm as anti-Trump as anybody!!!

OK, a commander (if that's what the "grunt" was) wouldn't have a lot of time. But that person should have known that they were close to Tehran's airport and that commercial passenger airliners were departing. The plane was 2-3 minutes from takeoff, close to the airport at not a lot of elevation. That person should have been reluctant to simply shoot any such plane out of the air without some damn good reason to believe it wasn't just a passenger plane. Does that make any sense?