US Representative Jim Moran on Wealth

[351Cleveland]

http://virginiavirtucon.wordpr...e-entitled-to-keep-it/

Now in the last seven years we have had the highest corporate profit ever in American history. Highest corporate profit! We?ve had the highest productivity! The American worker has produced more per person at any time, but it hasn?t been shared, and that?s the problem because we have been guided by a republican administration who believes in this simplistic notion that people who have wealth are entitled to keep it and they have an antipathy towards the means of redistributing wealth

Okay then. Hand over your wealth... it isnt yours to keep anyway. You were just HOLDING it for the government. I wonder what he means by wealth... money? investments? real property (houses and land)? automobiles? jewelry? Does anyone have any insight on what "wealth" is to Mr. Moran?

 

[jonks]

Republicans (and McCain) supports progressive tax too. Next.

 

[daveymark]

what a moran

 

[DarrelSPowers]

Originally posted by: daveymark
what a moran

hyuck hyuck :laugh:

 

[351Cleveland]

Originally posted by: jonks
Republicans (and McCain) supports progressive tax too. Next.

Who said anything about taxes? He didnt. I didnt. I wonder if you arent reading more into his statements than what is actually there.

 

[jonks]

Originally posted by: 351Cleveland

Originally posted by: jonks
Republicans (and McCain) supports progressive tax too. Next.

Who said anything about taxes? He didnt. I didnt. I wonder if you arent reading more into his statements than what is actually there.

Um, in this country, how we take money from people? It's called taxes. When you talk about people keeping money or the gov't taking money, you are de facto talking about taxes.

 

[ElFenix]

corporations shouldn't be taxed anyway. it muddies who actually bears the burden of the tax

 

[351Cleveland]

Originally posted by: jonks

Originally posted by: 351Cleveland

Originally posted by: jonks
Republicans (and McCain) supports progressive tax too. Next.

Who said anything about taxes? He didnt. I didnt. I wonder if you arent reading more into his statements than what is actually there.

Um, in this country, how we take money from people? It's called taxes. When you talk about people keeping money or the gov't taking money, you are de facto talking about taxes.

Okay. Call it a tax. I dont care. In the PAST, we have taxed income. If you want to call this taxing, now this guy is talking about taxing WEALTH... or taxing the stuff you have left after income taxes. He didnt mention income or "how much you make" at all when he referenced the wealth that people have.

 

[winnar111]

Originally posted by: daveymark
what a moran

Rofl!

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: 351Cleveland

Who said anything about taxes? He didnt. I didnt.

Actually, if you're referring to the right wing references calling Obama a "socialist" who wants to redistribute wealth, yes you are. Obama says he will re-institute the previous tax rates on the income of the top 5%. In other words, adjusting the progressive tax rate to where it was before the Bushwhacko tax cut... the SAME tax cut McCain originally called "unconscionable," and the SAME tax cuts he's now pimping.

Originally posted by: ElFenix
corporations shouldn't be taxed anyway. it muddies who actually bears the burden of the tax

I disagree. Under the law, corporations are officially "corporate citizens." They should be taxed as any other commercial earning entity for the same reasons they should be held to standards of contributing to the communities in which they reside, not just the bottom line revenues they can suck out of it.

 

[davestar]

Originally posted by: 351Cleveland

Originally posted by: jonks

Originally posted by: 351Cleveland

Originally posted by: jonks
Republicans (and McCain) supports progressive tax too. Next.

Who said anything about taxes? He didnt. I didnt. I wonder if you arent reading more into his statements than what is actually there.

Um, in this country, how we take money from people? It's called taxes. When you talk about people keeping money or the gov't taking money, you are de facto talking about taxes.

Okay. Call it a tax. I dont care. In the PAST, we have taxed income. If you want to call this taxing, now this guy is talking about taxing WEALTH... or taxing the stuff you have left after income taxes. He didnt mention income or "how much you make" at all when he referenced the wealth that people have.

in the past we taxed income and under Obama, we will tax income. i'm sure it's fun to rally right-wingers by claiming that any democratic reference to wealth means that welfare queens are going to be raiding your savings accounts, but sane people know you're being disengenuous.

it's funny though, i do seem to remember a certain Alaskan governor who imposed a windfall profits tax on oil companies... what was her name? Palin?

 

[351Cleveland]

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: 351Cleveland

Who said anything about taxes? He didnt. I didnt.

Actually, if you're referring to the right wing references calling Obama a "socialist" who wants to redistribute wealth, yes you are. Obama says he will re-institute the previous tax rates on the income of the top 5%. In other words, adjusting the progressive tax rate to where it was before the Bushwhacko tax cut... the SAME tax cut McCain originally called "unconscionable," and the SAME tax cuts he's now pimping.

Astonishing. Did you read NONE of my comments? I did NOT bring up taxes. I didnt bring up Obama. I didnt even mention the term "socialist." I refered to one US House Representative's comments on the people's expectation of retaining wealth. But hey, you make up all the shit you want and give your canned bullshit response.

Bravo. You know, one of these days you are going to have to actually open your eyes and pay attention. I know... given your current status it isnt expected and not a requirement, but it might be helpful.

 

[techs]

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: 351Cleveland

Who said anything about taxes? He didnt. I didnt.

Actually, if you're referring to the right wing references calling Obama a "socialist" who wants to redistribute wealth, yes you are. Obama says he will re-institute the previous tax rates on the income of the top 5%. In other words, adjusting the progressive tax rate to where it was before the Bushwhacko tax cut... the SAME tax cut McCain originally called "unconscionable," and the SAME tax cuts he's now pimping.

Originally posted by: ElFenix
corporations shouldn't be taxed anyway. it muddies who actually bears the burden of the tax

I disagree. Under the law, corporations are officially "corporate citizens." They should be taxed as any other commercial earning entity for the same reasons they should be held to standards of contributing to the communities in which they reside, not just the bottom line revenues they can suck out of it.

Let me get this straight. The wacko righties keep insisting corporations have the right to free speech, just like people.
But they should be exempt from taxes?
So people who want to exercise their free speech have to do so with after tax earnings and corporations can do it with tax free earnings?
WTF?

 

[SP33Demon]

I voted against him.

 

[Perknose]

Originally posted by: 351Cleveland
http://virginiavirtucon.wordpr...e-entitled-to-keep-it/

Now in the last seven years we have had the highest corporate profit ever in American history. Highest corporate profit! We?ve had the highest productivity! The American worker has produced more per person at any time, but it hasn?t been shared . . .

The Moran said the bolded in a way that you could easily misinterpret , BUT WHAT HE SAID is an entirely valid complaint.

American worker productivity is the highest it's ever been. Corporate profit from their labor is at new highs, YET wages for the workers whose labor produces these products has stagnated, leading (and I'll put this in language you will find comforting and familiar) . . . LEADING to a redistribution of wealth away from the middle class American worker and into the pockets of the rich.

This CLASS WARFARE and REDISTRIBUTION OF WEALTH is obscene and more to the point, counter-productive to the overall economic health of our country. When corporate greed (highest pofits evar! but stagnant worker wages paid) leads to the evisceration of the middle class, our entire country suffers.

In the short run, this CLASS WARFARE that has greedily stagnated worker wages in a time of record corporate profits and DESPITE record worker productivity has been overcome by the middle class running up their credit cards and borrowing against their house equity . . . hmmmmm . . . how has THAT worked out for us? :shocked:

 

[AstroManLuca]

Originally posted by: daveymark
what a moran

awe you beat me to it

 

[dphantom]

Originally posted by: techs

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: 351Cleveland

Who said anything about taxes? He didnt. I didnt.

Actually, if you're referring to the right wing references calling Obama a "socialist" who wants to redistribute wealth, yes you are. Obama says he will re-institute the previous tax rates on the income of the top 5%. In other words, adjusting the progressive tax rate to where it was before the Bushwhacko tax cut... the SAME tax cut McCain originally called "unconscionable," and the SAME tax cuts he's now pimping.

Originally posted by: ElFenix
corporations shouldn't be taxed anyway. it muddies who actually bears the burden of the tax

I disagree. Under the law, corporations are officially "corporate citizens." They should be taxed as any other commercial earning entity for the same reasons they should be held to standards of contributing to the communities in which they reside, not just the bottom line revenues they can suck out of it.

Let me get this straight. The wacko righties keep insisting corporations have the right to free speech, just like people.
But they should be exempt from taxes?
So people who want to exercise their free speech have to do so with after tax earnings and corporations can do it with tax free earnings?
WTF?

You do understand taxes paid by a corporation are passed on to the buyer of said corporations products/services?

 

[Throckmorton]

Originally posted by: dphantom

Originally posted by: techs

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: 351Cleveland

Who said anything about taxes? He didnt. I didnt.

Actually, if you're referring to the right wing references calling Obama a "socialist" who wants to redistribute wealth, yes you are. Obama says he will re-institute the previous tax rates on the income of the top 5%. In other words, adjusting the progressive tax rate to where it was before the Bushwhacko tax cut... the SAME tax cut McCain originally called "unconscionable," and the SAME tax cuts he's now pimping.

Originally posted by: ElFenix
corporations shouldn't be taxed anyway. it muddies who actually bears the burden of the tax

I disagree. Under the law, corporations are officially "corporate citizens." They should be taxed as any other commercial earning entity for the same reasons they should be held to standards of contributing to the communities in which they reside, not just the bottom line revenues they can suck out of it.

Let me get this straight. The wacko righties keep insisting corporations have the right to free speech, just like people.
But they should be exempt from taxes?
So people who want to exercise their free speech have to do so with after tax earnings and corporations can do it with tax free earnings?
WTF?

You do understand taxes paid by a corporation are passed on to the buyer of said corporations products/services?

How is a tax on PROFIT passed on to the consumer? That's like saying if my tax rate goes up or down, I force my employer to change my salary. Everyone sells their goods or services as cheaply as they need to in order to compete. The market determines prices, not the amount of profit a company WANTS to make.
If I could get my employer to pay me an extra $1000 because my tax goes up by $1000, why would I not do that at ANY tax rate?

 

[halik]

Originally posted by: daveymark
what a moran

 

[Fern]

Originally posted by: techs

Originally posted by: Harvey
-snip-

Originally posted by: ElFenix
corporations shouldn't be taxed anyway. it muddies who actually bears the burden of the tax

I disagree. Under the law, corporations are officially "corporate citizens." They should be taxed as any other commercial earning entity for the same reasons they should be held to standards of contributing to the communities in which they reside, not just the bottom line revenues they can suck out of it.

Let me get this straight. The wacko righties keep insisting corporations have the right to free speech, just like people.
But they should be exempt from taxes?
So people who want to exercise their free speech have to do so with after tax earnings and corporations can do it with tax free earnings?
WTF?

To Harvey & Techs,

The current system of taxing corporations at 2 levels - one level (corporate tax returns etc), and then at the 2nd level (dividends, cap gains etc) on the individuals' tax return, results in a hidden regressive tax scheme benefiting the wealthy and hurting the lower income-type investor(s).

This can be demonstrated with calculations and is a long established, well understood fact among financial professionals.

Corporate taxation, and the deductions under it, also tend to promote waste. Think of the lavish parties and other excesses (corp jets etc), would corporations tolerate it if the taxpayers weren't picking up 40-45% of the tab (vis-a-vis deductions against income)?

The problem is so many do not understand it and, therefore, it remains politicaly unpopular.

Fern

 

[sactoking]

Originally posted by: Throckmorton
How is a tax on PROFIT passed on to the consumer?

Ummmm...... it's quite simple. You see, if companies consistently make lower profit due to taxes, they CHARGE HIGHER PRICES.

You see, there's this little thing called accounting and US GAAP. US GAAP does not allow all expenses to be deducted pre-tax. So, you see, some of that PROFIT is used to fund company growth, repayment of debt, etc. If you tax profit, companies can't invest in fixed assets, repay loans, etc. as readily and must MAKE MORE PROFIT to pay their bills. They do that through HIGHER PRICES.

 

[LumbergTech]

what about the people who work for those companies? they helped create the wealth, maybe they arent getting their share?