The majority of the people living in Afghanistan do...
...ok?
No, they don't. They really don't.
The majority of the people living in Afghanistan do...
...ok?
No, they don't. They really don't.
kylebisme
Diamond Member
- Mar 25, 2000
- 9,396
- 0
- 0
I didn't suggest everyone who is angry becomes a terrorist, or abandoning our deterrence, you apparently only read as far as you quoted to argue as much. So, I added back in and bolded what you ignored, which you apparently agree with but felt like arguing with me anyway.
:roll:
TastesLikeChicken
Lifer
- Sep 12, 2004
- 16,852
- 59
- 86
Yes, LL. Damn the truth. Let perception reign in its stead.
That's not to mention that I somehow doubt that you have been appointed Minister of Afghani Thought Processes. So boldly proclaiming that you can divine Afghani perception or opinion is truly a preposterous notion, not to mention your abject arrogance in pretending to know in the first place.
JEDIYoda
Lifer
- Jul 13, 2005
- 33,986
- 3,321
- 126
you are totally bonkers!!
In fact you have totally lost it altogether.
Do you actually believe it is humanly possible to have no civilian casualitys each and everytime there is a military operation??
sheese wake up smell the roses!!
you.... neglect to mention the well known fact that the terrorists in Afghanistan - much like those in Gaza, Iraq, Lebanon, and elsewhere - like to hide among the population and use them as shields when they find it convenient.
These types of reports are no different than what we saw in Iraq prior to the surge: Propaganda driven by terrorist money and intimidation. There aren't many people in the world that wouldn't say anything they needed to say to prevent their own death, or members of their families death, when they knew it was their ONLY choice.
Lemon, do you really think we just rush villages with guns a blazing? Seriously? Come on man.. There is nothing wrong with having feelings against war, death, killing, etc, but this is the 21st freakin century! We are not trained, pushed, influenced, or even compelled to rack up kill counts or take out innocents.
Lemon, do you really think we just rush villages with guns a blazing? Seriously? Come on man.. There is nothing wrong with having feelings against war, death, killing, etc, but this is the 21st freakin century! We are not trained, pushed, influenced, or even compelled to rack up kill counts or take out innocents.
TastesLikeChicken
Lifer
- Sep 12, 2004
- 16,852
- 59
- 86
Why is it that every time my head is allegedly up my ass I run into you?
It can't just be coincidence.
palehorse
Lifer
- Dec 21, 2005
- 11,521
- 0
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I would blame the criminals who intentionally take up firing positions behind my mother and daughter, not the police who are defending themselves and accidentally shoot my family. In fact, if it were me, I'd help the police and shoot the criminals on the fucking spot for even considering such evil.
You've obviously never been under direct fire and in a position where you had to wait more than 30 minutes just for permission to return fire... and then have it denied in an effort to avoid bad press.
I have.
The lengths we (Western forces) go to in order to avoid civilian casualties are far and beyond any such precautions in the history of warfare. Unfortunately, our enemies are some of the most ruthless in history and demonstrate their evil by intentionally causing civilian casualties every chance they can get. In fact, they are even trained to do so! Their intent is to use the death of any innocents to inspire misplaced sympathy for their cause(s) by readers/viewers in the West, to drive recruitment for their twisted organizations, and to instill fear in the innocent people they intend to govern in the future at gunpoint -- the same innocent people they use as shields and fodder in their quest for more anti-U.S. propaganda.
It works.
The misguided perceptions of "the people" you so often pontificate upon are shaped by our enemies' never-ending deceptive propaganda, the global media who cant help themselves and MUST run with every story as fast and as often as humanly possible, regardless of accuracy; and lastly, by those amongst us who would choose to perpetuate both (that would be you).
In Afghanistan, we need to:
1) Add at least 75k more NATO combat troops.
2) Multiply their infrastructure renewal dollars by a factor of 10, or more. Use the money for paved roads, communications, water wells, and agricultural/education reform -- simultaneously eradicating the opium industry.
3) Increase the op-tempo and effectiveness of the precision strikes against the Taliban/AQ logistical backbone in SW Afghanistan and NW Pakistan.
4) Increase cooperation and coordination with Afghan and Pakistani military forces to effectively conduct hammer-and-anvil operations against large groups of enemy who use the international border as a modern-day moat, and the Pakistani back-country as their unmolested training grounds.
5) Forcefully clean out corruption that is present throughout the entire Karzai administration -- down to the district level within each of the 34 Provinces.
6) Drop LL off in the hills of Waziristan, alone, so that he can witness the Taliban's evil firsthand, or join them. Whichever comes first...
kylebisme
Diamond Member
- Mar 25, 2000
- 9,396
- 0
- 0
I didn't suggest anything of the sort, you are just too insane to comprended what I did say.
It isn't a matter of targeting innocents which is the problem, but rather the lack of concern for avoiding civilian casualties and abuse, as noted in this recent article:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/...5/AR2009011504198.html
It is because you constantly have your head up your ass.
TastesLikeChicken
Lifer
- Sep 12, 2004
- 16,852
- 59
- 86
In all fairness, do you realize the Taliban also operate with zero concern towards collateral damage? They rule by fear and violence, beheading those who disagree with them or resist, throwing acid on girls who go to school, and commit atrocity after atrocity in the name of their sick cause. Their entire modus operandi is to cause as much panic through horrifying violence that no one resists their efforts.
palehorse
Lifer
- Dec 21, 2005
- 11,521
- 0
- 76
You forgot to mention their doctrine which includes the use of human shields and other similar tactics. Each of which are designed to intentionally cause innocent casualties. (ie, they are trained to initiate ambushes on NATO forces from within crowded markets, weddings, etc).
Except perhaps in passing, I've never seen LL condemn them for such evil tactics. Each and every one of his posts comes across like this:
"Right right, whatever, the Taliban are misunderstood bad boys, sure. BUT, The U.S. military are the scum of the universe...<insert an entire page describing why the US military is more evil here>..."
It just doesn't compute...
dahunan
Lifer
- Jan 10, 2002
- 18,191
- 3
- 0
Wow.. all this BS about
but they cling to human shields etc etc..
THEN DO SOMETHING DIFFERENT SO YOU AREN'T TERRORISTS TOO
Jesus Christ - let me murder your Mom and tell you she was collateral damage.. AND KEEP doing it and doing it ad infinitum.. how long before you start firing back..
but they cling to human shields etc etc..
THEN DO SOMETHING DIFFERENT SO YOU AREN'T TERRORISTS TOO
Jesus Christ - let me murder your Mom and tell you she was collateral damage.. AND KEEP doing it and doing it ad infinitum.. how long before you start firing back..
I give the U.S. military far more credit for at least trying to limit civilian casualties. I don't see our guys shooting innocent civilians in the head and dumping their bodies in the village square to make a point about how powerful they are. Take a gander at what the Taliban are doing over in the SWAT valley in Pakistan, it's downright sickening:
http://abcnews.go.com/Internat...tory?id=6731636&page=1
TastesLikeChicken
Lifer
- Sep 12, 2004
- 16,852
- 59
- 86
I have an idea. How about the Taliban move away from civilians, wear uniforms, and fight like people who actually care whether or not civilians end up as collateral damage? I have absolutely no doubt that the US military would have no issues with that position whatsoever. The civilian population would be safe. Problem solved.
See how easy solving problems is?
palehorse
Lifer
- Dec 21, 2005
- 11,521
- 0
- 76
I'll promote you to Platoon Leader. Congrats, you're now a 23-year old 2nd Lieutenant.
Was I allowing that terrorist to hide there?
Did I do anything to prevent the terrorist from using my mom as a shield?
Was the terrorist hiding under there AND shooting at you simultaneously?
Did said terrorist kill your brother while he was hiding under my mom's skirt?
Did you call up HQ and obtain permission to return fire?
While you were waiting for permission, did you to lose a second brother to the terrorist fire coming from beneath my mom's skirt?
Once permission was finally granted, did you do your very best to limit all return fire to the area around my mom's skirt, and not her top?
...These are all very important questions that you must answer.
If this really happened to me, I'd be in line the very next day to sign up to kill terrorists. I'd spend the rest of my days fighting by your side.
When you shot and killed my mom, was a terrorist hiding her skirt at the time?
Was I allowing that terrorist to hide there?
Did I do anything to prevent the terrorist from using my mom as a shield?
Was the terrorist hiding under there AND shooting at you simultaneously?
Did said terrorist kill your brother while he was hiding under my mom's skirt?
Did you call up HQ and obtain permission to return fire?
While you were waiting for permission, did you to lose a second brother to the terrorist fire coming from beneath my mom's skirt?
Once permission was finally granted, did you do your very best to limit all return fire to the area around my mom's skirt, and not her top?
...These are all very important questions that you must answer.
If this really happened to me, I'd be in line the very next day to sign up to kill terrorists. I'd spend the rest of my days fighting by your side.
One again, Sir, any suggestions?
Of course the military tries to limit collateral damage to the best of our ability. It is, unfortunately, unavoidable at times..but that doesn't mean we are killing civilians by the f'in truck load! Have you even considered, just for one freakin second, that some of this is propaganda driven by terrorist/Taliban money and intimidation? It happened with Iraq, and it obviously happens in Afghanistan/Pakistan.
I'm not saying this happened in this case, because I don't know and wasn't there, but I can say with certainty there were times in Iraq when AQI killed citizens and blew up houses, cars, etc in an area where a US strike had occurred, and people said we did it. Until the surge took place, this wasn't all so uncommon. The fact of the matter is there aren't many people in this world that wouldn't say anything they needed to say to keep themselves or their family alive when there is NO other choice.
I'm not saying this happened in this case, because I don't know and wasn't there, but I can say with certainty there were times in Iraq when AQI killed citizens and blew up houses, cars, etc in an area where a US strike had occurred, and people said we did it. Until the surge took place, this wasn't all so uncommon. The fact of the matter is there aren't many people in this world that wouldn't say anything they needed to say to keep themselves or their family alive when there is NO other choice.
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