US economy may be stuck in slow lane for long run

[werepossum]

We can still talk wwoth our pocketbooks and wallets. Americans need to stick together and pledge that we will never buy another product from China or anywhere in SE Asia!

You would see a dramatic shift back to US manufacturing!

Yeah, I used to think that. It's a fool's game. All you do is cut your own standard of living while the selling of America goes on around you. Chuck Harder tried to get a Made in America movement going, had a pretty good operation linking to many small-time American manufacturers. He THOUGHT the UAW was on board, so he sold the operation to them. They immediately fired him, changed "Buy American" to a unionization push against the individual manufacturers, canceled his syndication agreements to get the show off the air. They absolutely destroyed everything he had done and never even paid him.

One thing on which the left and right leadership agree is the need to crush the American middle class. It doesn't help to vote Democrat. It doesn't help to vote Republican. It doesn't help to vote third party. And if you try to buy American, you just end up as collateral damage one way or another. The Ownership Society is over; the Rental Society is here. It's the New Feudalism.

 

[boomerang]

He has yet to figure out how.

 

[Matt1970]

Listen buddy. The rich do owe us. They avoid paying taxes, and they buy things like jets, mansions, islands, furs, and caviar. The average folk are eating noodles!

I bet Bill Gates is sitting in his hot tub drinking $2,000 champagne right now! Where is my jet? I can't buy $6,000 fur coats! Is that fair?

Bill Gates pays more in taxes in one year than that you or I will make in our lifetimes. He deserves everything he has.

 

[theeedude]

He has yet to figure out how.

You should have posted that in the "Age of Ignorance" thread as an exhibit.

 

[theeedude]

FTFY.

Your point? Aside from listing companies whose earnings are dependent on the aggregate demand of American consumers.

 

[werepossum]

He has yet to figure out how.

LOL!

Eventually there will be two classes of Americans, those riding in the wagon and those so wealthy they can ignore the wagon.

 

[BoberFett]

Median household income is $52,000 in the US. Do tell us how big of a house, how many cars, and how much stuff that gets a family of 4 without getting into unsustainable debt. But I agree with your broader point, that we should not concentrate more wealth in the hands of people who already have all the house, cars, and stuff they could ever need.

Where are these poor people in the US that Democrats love to believe in? I simply don't see these beggar families with shoeless children living in tin shacks. The poor in this country have plenty of stuff.

 

[theeedude]

Where are these poor people in the US that Democrats love to believe in? I simply don't see these beggar families with shoeless children living in tin shacks. The poor in this country have plenty of stuff.

Then we are done growing the economy. No need for more things. Mission accomplished.

 

[Engineer]

Where are these poor people in the US that Democrats love to believe in? I simply don't see these beggar families with shoeless children living in tin shacks. The poor in this country have plenty of stuff.

So then it's OK to stop with wage increases (well, we already have for most) and the hope for a higher standard of living for EVERYONE here? Sounds like 'we're good enough and have more than enough so to hell with it...let's give some more away' to me.

 

[videogames101]

The factory jobs that supported the middle class have gone to china.

The only way it can go is downhill.

There are so many jobs available in the United States I can't imagine being unemployed.

Now whether people are qualified for these jobs is another question entirely, which is the real problem as of late.

And before you tell me some areas are worse than others: then it's time to get up and move.

 

[Engineer]

There are so many McService McJobs available in the United States I can't imagine being unemployed.

Now whether people are qualified for these jobs is another question entirely, which is the real problem as of late.

Corrected that for you. Sure, there are unfilled jobs that need skills but to say that there are enough jobs for everyone (should they be skilled enough) and that pay well with better benefits is laughable.

 

[BoberFett]

Then we are done growing the economy. No need for more things. Mission accomplished.

So then it's OK to stop with wage increases (well, we already have for most) and the hope for a higher standard of living for EVERYONE here? Sounds like 'we're good enough and have more than enough so to hell with it...let's give some more away' to me.

Instead of getting pissy and stamping your feet like children, please describe the life that you think Americans should have, if only if it weren't for those nasty hobbitses... I mean rich people.

 

[videogames101]

Corrected that for you. Sure, there are unfilled jobs that need skills but to say that there are enough jobs for everyone (should they be skilled enough) and that pay well with better benefits is laughable.

everyone? i'm not saying 0% unemployment, maybe 1%

take a look at craigslist job listings once in a while, pretty much every industry needs skilled/educated workers in droves

 

[Engineer]

Instead of getting pissy and stamping your feet like children, please describe the life that you think Americans should have, if only if it weren't for those nasty hobbitses... I mean rich people.

I don't care how much money rich people get as long as they aren't selling out the American worker to get the money and they have and continue to do so. You can choose to feel however you wish on this issue. It's no secret that the McJobs that are replacing the good paying, wealth building (and making) jobs that America 'used' to have is bringing us down in the world. But don't worry, our poor are still great and have plenty so we can continue to slide...no worries.

:whiste:

 

[videogames101]

to say that the reason the unemployment rate is high is that "there are no jobs except minimum wage service jobs" is completely false

 

[Engineer]

everyone? i'm not saying 0% unemployment, maybe 1%

take a look at craigslist job listings once in a while, pretty much every industry needs skilled/educated workers in droves

So you base the idea that we have more than enough skilled jobs for everyone from reading jobs on Craigslist? Heh

 

[Engineer]

to say that the reason the unemployment rate is high is that "there are no jobs except minimum wage srevice jobs" is completely false

Never said anything about unemployment. I said stagnant to falling real wages for decades now and falling benefits to boot. Do you think the rising ranks in welfare and food stamps are all working great paying skilled trades jobs?

 

[videogames101]

So you base the idea that we have more than enough skilled jobs for everyone from reading jobs on Craigslist? Heh

the fact is if you have skills you are not facing unemployment, but keep laughing i guess

 

[videogames101]

Never said anything about unemployment. I said stagnant to falling real wages for decades now and falling benefits to boot. Do you think the rising ranks in welfare and food stamps are all working great paying skilled trades jobs?

what?

if you say so

do you just say things without any basis?

 

[Engineer]

the fact is if you have skills you are not facing unemployment, but keep laughing i guess

Keep basing your views on number of Craigslist jobs too.

 

[Engineer]

what?

if you say so

do you just say things without any basis?

Did you look at the last few decades and those bottom groups of people (i.e. the majority of people in the US)? Hint the bottom 4 groups are flat to going downhill from 2000 on and some before that.

 

[videogames101]

Did you look at the last few decades and those bottom groups of people (i.e. the majority of people in the US)?

i see that nothing has changed in the past 50 years, what do you see? calling anything for the bottom quintiles a trend would be some kind of falsehood

 

[Matt1970]

The simple reality is that the poor and middle class spend most if not all of their income, and the rich save a lot of it. Savings creates supply, spending creates demand.
Demand is what determines the size of the economy. You can't produce more than you can sell in the long run.
If you concentrate money at the top, you will have that money that money chasing investment returns in the face of an economy limited by lack of demand. All you are going to get are never ending asset bubbles in a stagnant economy, which is exactly what we are getting. Companies and wealthy are sitting on record cash, and the fed is pumping record cash into the upper strata of the economy, but without increased demand from the middle class, working class, the poor, and/or the government, the economy cannot meaningfully grow, all that money does is drive up asset prices. Supply side economics has failed, miserably, and it will continue to fail miserably, because aggregate demand is what drives the economy, and supply simply responds to it.
Until we purge ourselves of the supply side disease, the economy will remain sick, indefinitely.

And the average consumer spends their money at Wal-Mart and Dollar stores where a portion of that goes bye-bye forever, or at least until they loan it back to the US with interest.

 

[BoberFett]

I don't care how much money rich people get as long as they aren't selling out the American worker to get the money and they have and continue to do so. You can choose to feel however you wish on this issue. It's no secret that the McJobs that are replacing the good paying, wealth building (and making) jobs that America 'used' to have is bringing us down in the world. But don't worry, our poor are still great and have plenty so we can continue to slide...no worries.

:whiste:

There you go again, nebulous references to things we should have, but don't.

What wealth building did the bottom half of America have in the past that they no longer have?

 

[Engineer]

i see that nothing has changed in the past 50 years, what do you see? calling anything for the bottom quintiles a trend would be some kind of falsehood

I see the bottom 4 quintiles going down from about 1998 to now. What do you see?