US Doctors' beliefs can hinder patient care.

[Trevelyan]

Originally posted by: Darwin333
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: manowar821
HELL no.


Any self-righteous jerk that thinks this way shouldn't have become a doctor. It's like the food mart/pork deal. GET A DIFFERENT JOB.

</end quote></div>

Sigh. Once again I will ask, do you want TWO THIRDS of the doctors to all of a sudden not be qualified to practice medicine? Do you really think that would be the best thing for our health care?

Don't listen to him. For all the complaints about the Religious Right imposing their beliefs on others, that is exactly what Lefties are advocating here. They want laws to force people to accept their morality, so they can feel secure in what they believe. It's a complete reversal of what they claim to stand for -- the ultimate hypocrisy.

It's not enough that abortion be legal, it should be sanctioned by everyone, according to people here.

Abortion IS legal, therefore abortion IS morally acceptable.
If you are a doctor, you MUST perform abortions without thinking for yourself.
You are NOT entitled to have your own moral objections.
The state decides what is RIGHT.
If you disagree, you can't be a doctor.

 

[manowar821]

Originally posted by: Darwin333
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: manowar821
HELL no.


Any self-righteous jerk that thinks this way shouldn't have become a doctor. It's like the food mart/pork deal. GET A DIFFERENT JOB.

</end quote></div>

Sigh. Once again I will ask, do you want TWO THIRDS of the doctors to all of a sudden not be qualified to practice medicine? Do you really think that would be the best thing for our health care?

Where did you get that statistic, may I ask?

 

[manowar821]

Originally posted by: Trevelyan
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: Darwin333
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: manowar821
HELL no.


Any self-righteous jerk that thinks this way shouldn't have become a doctor. It's like the food mart/pork deal. GET A DIFFERENT JOB.

</end quote></div>

Sigh. Once again I will ask, do you want TWO THIRDS of the doctors to all of a sudden not be qualified to practice medicine? Do you really think that would be the best thing for our health care?</end quote></div>

Don't listen to him. For all the complaints about the Religious Right imposing their beliefs on others, that is exactly what Lefties are advocating here. They want laws to force people to accept their morality, so they can feel secure in what they believe. It's a complete reversal of what they claim to stand for -- the ultimate hypocrisy.

It's not enough that abortion be legal, it should be sanctioned by everyone, according to people here.

Abortion IS legal, therefore abortion IS morally acceptable.
If you are a doctor, you MUST perform abortions without thinking for yourself.
You are NOT entitled to have your own moral objections.
The state decides what is RIGHT.
If you disagree, you can't be a doctor.

I will argue to the death my views on being pro-abortion, but that is not what I'm speaking of here.

As much as I disagree with the extreme right, I don't think they should be forced to perform an abortion if it's literally murder in their heads. However, that is not what I was talking about, and I don't exactly think that doctors should be all forced to do abortions. Perhaps doctors could, in the future, advertise whether or not they'll do the operation...?

Now birth control, and the morning after pill? Completely different situation! Especially in rape situations.

This goes with my government-provided medical care views, though. Socialized Medicare. Separation of church and state. Both good things IMO.

Of course, with the way this government is heading, perhaps government controlled health care wouldn't be the best idea. Those nuts already have way too much power.

I don't know, I'm torn on the socialization topic.

Anyway, get the religion out of other peoples lives.

 

[Darwin333]

Originally posted by: manowar821
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: Darwin333
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: manowar821
HELL no.


Any self-righteous jerk that thinks this way shouldn't have become a doctor. It's like the food mart/pork deal. GET A DIFFERENT JOB.

</end quote></div>

Sigh. Once again I will ask, do you want TWO THIRDS of the doctors to all of a sudden not be qualified to practice medicine? Do you really think that would be the best thing for our health care?</end quote></div>

Where did you get that statistic, may I ask?

From the original post and article that we are now debating.

From the very first post in the thread:

"63 percent of doctors said it is acceptable to tell patients they have moral objections to treatments, and 18 percent felt no obligation to refer patients elsewhere."

 

[heartsurgeon]

Don't doctors have to agree to help anyone regardless of their beliefs? I thought I had read something about that...

HAHA you made me laugh...

you thought you read that somewhere.....
that's really funny.


I don't have to do squat if i don't want to.

Once again, it's a young, inexperience liberal (most of those who post here), who doesn't realize that what they are espousing is basically totalitarianism....the "state" run by the "elites" who will determine the moral and legal standards by which we must all believe and abide in.

This isn't a Stalinist society where a select few can dictate to others what they must do "regardless of their beliefs"

this is a basic problem for young liberals...they believe the world should function a certain way, based of course upon what THEY believe is best. they are shocked when they find out that not everyone else believes in the same things they do. Then they want to pass laws to force people to do what they feel is "best".

 

[BaliBabyDoc]

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: RightIsWrong
I know most on here keep arguing that the patient can just "go to another hospital/pharm". But what if that isn't an option?

Say you live in a small rural town/area/state? What if they don't drive? What if they are in an emergency situation? What if the hospital has religious leaders instead of medical leaders at the helm? What if you are unfortunate enough to hit the trifecta?

And in emergency scenarios, Dr. Stulberg says, the newly merged hospital did not offer standard-of-care treatments. In one case that made the local paper, a patient came in with an ectopic pregnancy: an embryo had implanted in her fallopian tube. Such an embryo has zero chance of survival and is a serious threat to the mother, as its growth can rupture the tube. The more invasive way to treat an ectopic is to surgically remove the tube. An alternative, generally less risky way is to administer methotrexate, a drug also used for cancer. It dissolves the pregnancy but spares the tube, preserving the women's fertility. "The doctor thought the noninvasive treatment was best," Dr. Stulberg recounts. But Catholic directives specify that even in an ectopic pregnancy, doctors cannot perform "a direct abortion" ? which, the on-call ob/gyn reasoned, would nix the drug option. (Surgery, on the other hand, could be considered a lifesaving measure that indirectly kills the embryo, and may be permitted.) The doctor didn't wait to take it up with the hospital's ethical committee; she told the patient to check out and head to another ER. (Citing patient confidentiality, West Suburban declined to comment, confirming only that as a Catholic hospital, it adheres to religious directives "in every instance.")

That's an interesting case . . . likely rare . . . but still illustrates alleged 'morals' that compromise patient care.

Doctors are not supernatural beings. We are quite human, which means by definition we are quite flawed. When treating ADULT patients we do participate in a rather peculiar dance. It is the responsibility of GOOD, MORAL physicians to act in their patient's best interests. BUT a patient ALWAYS has the option of acting in a manner that is NOT in their best interests . . . and often they do just that. Some physicians take the course of trying to mitigate the impact of those bad choices. Other physicians take the stand that they will not serve patients that refuse to take an active, positive role in their health care.

It gets even murkier when fiscal issues are involved. There are physicians that refuse to see Medicare or Medicaid patients. There are physicians (and hospitals) that refuse to see patients that cannot prepay or are delinquent their bills. If physicians were the mythical creatures of lore . . . that live to serve their fellow human beings . . . then they would never limit patient care on grounds of finances or biases. The truth is that SOME physicians see their profession as a vocation. Within the purview of that job, they get paid to provide services and they expect to largely control the who, what, when, where, why, and how much.

Personally, I believe all competent physicians should provide all necessary care regardless of a patient's ability to pay. But that model only works for Medecins Sans Frontieres and Cuba . . . and even Cuba is a little suspect because you WILL get better health care if you have money. And that's not even considering the conflict when the LAW says you must acquire certain information before providing care . . . thereby denying care to people that need it.

Our health care system is fundamentally amoral. It is composed of various entities and individuals that have vested interests. It shouldn't be surprising that physicians are just another party that's often more keen in serving their interests than that of patients or the system as a whole.

For the record, the Hippocratic Oath is no more meaningful than wedding vows.

 

[piasabird]

If you are running a private business you make your own rules.

What about lack of religion forcing gay education on people. This is just a breakdown of morals.

Dont you think everyone is influenced by their beliefs?

Some people believe divorce is wrong.

Some people believe Porn is OK.

Some people believe child porn is ok.

Some people believe in helping the poor.