US deficit threatens global recovery

GrGr

Diamond Member
Sep 25, 2003
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US deficit threatens global recovery

Charlotte Denny, economics correspondent
Thursday April 15, 2004
The Guardian

Washington received a double broadside over its ballooning government deficit yesterday when two of the world's leading economic thinktanks issued a blunt warning that urgent steps had to be taken to close the gap.
President Bush's trillion dollar tax cuts, the costs of the "war on terror" and the 2001 recession have all contributed to the sharpest slide into the red in America's finances since the second world war, the International Monetary Fund said last night.

While the rise in US borrowing had boosted global demand, easing some of the pain of the post-2000 global recession, the size of the US deficit was now a threat to the global recovery, according to the IMF's biannual assessment of the world economy.

"We have at present in the world serious global imbalances and they heighten the risk exposure of the world economy," said Raghu Rajan, director of the IMF research department. The fund estimates that if the US fails to tackle its budget deficit, higher world interest rates would shave 3.75% off its output and 4.25% off world output.

The size of the deficit also risked triggering a sharp slide in the dollar, the IMF said. Higher global interest rates would be needed to damp down the inflationary pressures generated by the size of US borrowing with damaging consequences for fragile emerging economies. Figures out yesterday showed the consumer price index, the most widely used gauge of US inflation, rose 0.5% in March after a 0.3% increase in February, the US labour department said.

The closely watched core CPI, which strips out volatile food and energy costs, surged 0.4%, the biggest increase in nearly two and a half years.

The IMF's warning was reinforced earlier in the day by the Organisation for Economic Cooperation and Development in Paris which said it was imperative to restore budget discipline as rapidly as possible.

etc.

 

XZeroII

Lifer
Jun 30, 2001
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I fail to see what this has to do with the debt. Interest rates are at record lows and have been there for a long time. The economy is rebounding fast. Inflation should be rising. It's what is supposed to happen during economic expansion under our current system.

These people have been trying to claim this for decades (maybe not them personally, but people like them). They were claiming that regan's deficits would cause the space-time continum to collapse in on itself years ago. We all know how that turned out. Heck, it's gotta come true sometime, so if they keep claiming it will happen, they will eventually be right.
 

tec699

Banned
Dec 19, 2002
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I believe the 800lb gorilla is going to be health care for the elderly. With over 50 million baby boomers reaching 65+ in the next 10-20 years how are we going to deal with this issue? I''ll bet more then 60% (could be higher) don't have health insurance. Taking care of these people is going to put a HUGE strain on our economy. Congress needs to tackle this issue NOW before it's to late.


Also, congress and the American people need to stop overspending! How many people are buying homes that they can't even afford? Now take a look at credit cards and personal loans. Most Americans are spending over their limit. Everyone wants to purchase items they can't afford so they can stay one step ahead of their neighbors. IMO, we desperatley need to get our spending habits under control.

It has to come to an end sometime. :(
 

XZeroII

Lifer
Jun 30, 2001
12,572
0
0
Originally posted by: tec699
I believe the 800lb gorilla is going to be health care for the elderly. With over 50 million baby boomers reaching 65+ in the next 10-20 years how are we going to deal with this issue? I''ll bet more then 60% (could be higher) don't have health insurance. Taking care of these people is going to put a HUGE strain on our economy. Congress needs to tackle this issue NOW before it's to late.


Also, congress and the American people need to stop overspending! How many people are buying homes that they can't even afford? Now take a look at credit cards and personal loans. Most Americans are spending over their limit. Everyone wants to purchase items they can't afford so they can stay one step ahead of their neighbors. IMO, we desperatley need to get our spending habits under control.

It has to come to an end sometime. :(

Despite the fact that you didn't address the orginal post at all, I have a response for you.
Did you know that social security and medicare are right now revenue makers for our gov't? Yup, it's a hidden tax. They are making billions off of it and putting that money towards other stuff. When they talk about the SS bust, they are talking about the day when they stop making money off of it. The day when SS revenue (that they bring in from your paycheck) equals the amount that they actually dish out to SS recievers.

No wonder no one wants to reform SS. It's a huge money maker at the moment.

And yes, people are being stupid about their personal debts.
 

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
58,686
3
0
Originally posted by: XZeroII
I fail to see what this has to do with the debt. Interest rates are at record lows and have been there for a long time. The economy is rebounding fast. Inflation should be rising. It's what is supposed to happen during economic expansion under our current system.

You answered your question, sort of.

You say the economy is rebounding fast *cough*BS*cough* and, therefore, inflation should be rising. But, we're not seeing inflation taking off (except for a key area: energy prices). That would lead most to stop and think, "Hmmm. Perhaps the economy isn't rebounding fast. Perhaps we've just reached a plateau and are no longer falling."

You see, while jobs are increasing and corporate profits are rising, employees (consumers) have less spending power as their pay isn't rising in accordance to the corporate profits. But, that's to be expected by the March jobs increase that was comprised in large part of part-time jobs and people leaving self-employment for full-time employment (which general results in lower pay.)

 

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
17,033
1
81
I guess it is time to adopt the economic policies of the EU which is strangling their economy. No growth in the eurozone lately.
 

ITJunkie

Platinum Member
Apr 17, 2003
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www.techange.com
Some deficit spending is one thing but what Bush is doing is utter madness!

There has always been a breaking point where the good of deficit spending outweighs the danger of the deficit. Bush has pushed so far past that breaking point that it staggers the imagination. Yet many won't see it until interest rates go through the roof, they lose their houses and then wonder "what the fvck happened?".

DUHHHHH!!!!!:disgust:
 

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
17,033
1
81
Originally posted by: ITJunkie
Some deficit spending is one thing but what Bush is doing is utter madness!

There has always been a breaking point where the good of deficit spending outweighs the danger of the deficit. Bush has pushed so far past that breaking point that it staggers the imagination. Yet many won't see it until interest rates go through the roof, they lose their houses and then wonder "what the fvck happened?".

DUHHHHH!!!!!:disgust:

If it were record breaking, it would have my attention. However in relation to GDP(our ability to pay for it), this budget is not even in the top 10.
 

XZeroII

Lifer
Jun 30, 2001
12,572
0
0
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: ITJunkie
Some deficit spending is one thing but what Bush is doing is utter madness!

There has always been a breaking point where the good of deficit spending outweighs the danger of the deficit. Bush has pushed so far past that breaking point that it staggers the imagination. Yet many won't see it until interest rates go through the roof, they lose their houses and then wonder "what the fvck happened?".

DUHHHHH!!!!!:disgust:

If it were record breaking, it would have my attention. However in relation to GDP(our ability to pay for it), this budget is not even in the top 10.

This has been pointed out so many times it's not funny. They just don't listen.
 

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
58,686
3
0
Originally posted by: XZeroII
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: ITJunkie
Some deficit spending is one thing but what Bush is doing is utter madness!

There has always been a breaking point where the good of deficit spending outweighs the danger of the deficit. Bush has pushed so far past that breaking point that it staggers the imagination. Yet many won't see it until interest rates go through the roof, they lose their houses and then wonder "what the fvck happened?".

DUHHHHH!!!!!:disgust:

If it were record breaking, it would have my attention. However in relation to GDP(our ability to pay for it), this budget is not even in the top 10.

This has been pointed out so many times it's not funny. They just don't listen.

It's the highest it's been since Bush, Sr. And the record high % of GDP came during WWII...quite the exception, eh?

http://home.att.net/~mwhodges/debt_a.htm#debtdoll


Notice the rise in debt as % of GDP shoots upward under Republican administrations:

http://home.att.net/~mwhodges/debtfull.gif
 

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
17,033
1
81
Originally posted by: conjur
Originally posted by: XZeroII
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: ITJunkie
Some deficit spending is one thing but what Bush is doing is utter madness!

There has always been a breaking point where the good of deficit spending outweighs the danger of the deficit. Bush has pushed so far past that breaking point that it staggers the imagination. Yet many won't see it until interest rates go through the roof, they lose their houses and then wonder "what the fvck happened?".

DUHHHHH!!!!!:disgust:

If it were record breaking, it would have my attention. However in relation to GDP(our ability to pay for it), this budget is not even in the top 10.

This has been pointed out so many times it's not funny. They just don't listen.

It's the highest it's been since Bush, Sr. And the record high % of GDP came during WWII...quite the exception, eh?

http://home.att.net/~mwhodges/debt_a.htm#debtdoll


Notice the rise in debt as % of GDP shoots upward under Republican administrations:

http://home.att.net/~mwhodges/debtfull.gif


The point does not change, this is not a record breaking budget. We have had far worse debt loads in the past. Debt load during the 90s were higher than they were now. And that is a fact.
 

Spencer278

Diamond Member
Oct 11, 2002
3,637
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0
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: conjur
Originally posted by: XZeroII
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: ITJunkie
Some deficit spending is one thing but what Bush is doing is utter madness!

There has always been a breaking point where the good of deficit spending outweighs the danger of the deficit. Bush has pushed so far past that breaking point that it staggers the imagination. Yet many won't see it until interest rates go through the roof, they lose their houses and then wonder "what the fvck happened?".

DUHHHHH!!!!!:disgust:

If it were record breaking, it would have my attention. However in relation to GDP(our ability to pay for it), this budget is not even in the top 10.

This has been pointed out so many times it's not funny. They just don't listen.

It's the highest it's been since Bush, Sr. And the record high % of GDP came during WWII...quite the exception, eh?

http://home.att.net/~mwhodges/debt_a.htm#debtdoll


Notice the rise in debt as % of GDP shoots upward under Republican administrations:

http://home.att.net/~mwhodges/debtfull.gif


The point does not change, this is not a record breaking budget. We have had far worse debt loads in the past. Debt load during the 90s were higher than they were now. And that is a fact.


Don't worry next time their is a democrate he will clean up this mess right?
 

XZeroII

Lifer
Jun 30, 2001
12,572
0
0
Originally posted by: conjur
Originally posted by: XZeroII
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: ITJunkie
Some deficit spending is one thing but what Bush is doing is utter madness!

There has always been a breaking point where the good of deficit spending outweighs the danger of the deficit. Bush has pushed so far past that breaking point that it staggers the imagination. Yet many won't see it until interest rates go through the roof, they lose their houses and then wonder "what the fvck happened?".

DUHHHHH!!!!!:disgust:

If it were record breaking, it would have my attention. However in relation to GDP(our ability to pay for it), this budget is not even in the top 10.

This has been pointed out so many times it's not funny. They just don't listen.

It's the highest it's been since Bush, Sr. And the record high % of GDP came during WWII...quite the exception, eh?

http://home.att.net/~mwhodges/debt_a.htm#debtdoll


Notice the rise in debt as % of GDP shoots upward under Republican administrations:

http://home.att.net/~mwhodges/debtfull.gif
Very interesting links. Looking at the first one, near the beginning...
Question: Since debt increased each year, how could officials claim they had a budget surplus in the late 1990s and 2000?
Answer: the general federal government did not have a surplus. In fact, they ran a huge deficit each and every year, as shown by the above mentioned debt increases. The Deficit-Trust Report shows the general government spent more than its general revenues, but they covered up the over-spending deficit by siphoning-off all surpluses from all trust funds, including spending every penny remaining in the social security trust fund on non-pension items - - while creating even more debt IOUs to 'paper-over' their actions - - and, at the same time they claim they want to 'save social security'
http://home.att.net/~mwhodges/federal-debt-dollars.gif

This is unadjusted, but it's still incredible that people could claim that Clinton was financially responsible.
I would also point out, looking at your second link, that during the late 90's GDP was growing at an incredible rate. Thus the reason why the % when down. The percent is calculated by dividing the debt into the GDP (DEBT/GDP). As GDP increases, the ratio decreases. Thus, in the early part of the 2000's, when GDP went no where, the ratio started to rise again.

Nice links though.
 

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
17,033
1
81
Originally posted by: Spencer278
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: conjur
Originally posted by: XZeroII
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: ITJunkie
Some deficit spending is one thing but what Bush is doing is utter madness!

There has always been a breaking point where the good of deficit spending outweighs the danger of the deficit. Bush has pushed so far past that breaking point that it staggers the imagination. Yet many won't see it until interest rates go through the roof, they lose their houses and then wonder "what the fvck happened?".

DUHHHHH!!!!!:disgust:

If it were record breaking, it would have my attention. However in relation to GDP(our ability to pay for it), this budget is not even in the top 10.

This has been pointed out so many times it's not funny. They just don't listen.

It's the highest it's been since Bush, Sr. And the record high % of GDP came during WWII...quite the exception, eh?

http://home.att.net/~mwhodges/debt_a.htm#debtdoll


Notice the rise in debt as % of GDP shoots upward under Republican administrations:

http://home.att.net/~mwhodges/debtfull.gif


The point does not change, this is not a record breaking budget. We have had far worse debt loads in the past. Debt load during the 90s were higher than they were now. And that is a fact.


Don't worry next time their is a democrate he will clean up this mess right?

Are you talking a president or the party?

We have had a mixture of democrats and republicans and president since the end of WWII. No one can argue the debt of WWII was not worth while. It is equally as hard to argue that the debt of the cold war was not worth while.

The one thing that has been constant over the years since WWII is that democrats have controlled the house and senate( and often all 3 branches of goverment). The congress and senate are the ones in the end that are responsable for writing the budget.

republican congress in 94 get credit for reigning in spending(but still running debt)

The current group in DC, democrats and republicans alike have all their hands in our wallets right now.